How to attack a corner? - 986 Forum - The Community for Porsche Boxster & Cayman Owners

yfei · 02-14-2007, 09:05 AM

I heard a lot of late apex, and for rear engine cars, one should aim inside of the apex, and throttle hard when get very close to the apex. I think this is true for 911, since the car will slide out, aiming inside of the apex so that car will just hit the apex when reached there.
However, I feel different on Boxster, when throttle hard during a turn, the car won't slide out a lot, instead, i feel the nose actually is pulled into the turn direction. So right now what I do when cornering is, aim slightly outside of the apex (instead of inside), throttle hard when 'close' to the apex. Throttle point is not as close to the apex point as I would do on a 911.
Is this the right way on a boxster? What's the fastest or safest way of cornering?

MNBoxster · 02-14-2007, 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yfei

... What's the fastest or safest way of cornering?

Hi,

On the Track!...

Happy Motoring!... Jim'99

Perfectlap · 02-14-2007, 09:28 AM

Read this
book

now do your homework!

yfei · 02-14-2007, 09:36 AM

Yes I have the book, and have read it already. And have another book by PCA, about solo driving. I just feel that as a mid engine car, Boxster is somewhat different, the tech for rear engine car doesn't apply here.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Perfectlap

Read this
book

now do your homework!

Porschekid · 02-14-2007, 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yfei

Yes I have the book, and have read it already. And have another book by PCA, about solo driving. I just feel that as a mid engine car, Boxster is somewhat different, the tech for rear engine car doesn't apply here.

Doesn't the book break it down for cars that oversteer, understeer, neutral steer? The Boxster would fall into slight oversteer I would think.

racer_d · 02-14-2007, 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yfei

I heard a lot of late apex, and for rear engine cars, one should aim inside of the apex, and throttle hard when get very close to the apex. I think this is true for 911, since the car will slide out, aiming inside of the apex so that car will just hit the apex when reached there.
However, I feel different on Boxster, when throttle hard during a turn, the car won't slide out a lot, instead, i feel the nose actually is pulled into the turn direction. So right now what I do when cornering is, aim slightly outside of the apex (instead of inside), throttle hard when 'close' to the apex. Throttle point is not as close to the apex point as I would do on a 911.
Is this the right way on a boxster? What's the fastest or safest way of cornering?

Some questions first:

How is your car set up? An out of the "box" boxster is set up to UNDERsteer. It will take quite a bit of proviking to get the car to oversteer. Any changes from a stock set up may impact the vehicles basic cornering abilities.

Describe a corner in particular please... Fast sweeper? Slow 180 degree turnaround? On Camber? Off camber? The track/corner will dictate how a turn is to be made sucessfully.

The safest way to take a corner is with a late apex. PCA promotes the late apex approach (historically with 911s because it is the safest way to teach a beginning driver). Usually, a beginner in a 911 will lift off the gas mid-corner, causing severe rotation (ie, spinning off backwards). To prevent this, the driver is encourage to brake for as long as possible in a straight line before turning in for an apex. As a drivers skill advances, the "late" apex approach can be lessened. Skill development will allow even an "old 911" to be trailbraked" into a corner with confidence.

It should also be noted that the difference between an "early" or "late" apex tends to be only a car length or so (15 ft window).. not 100's of feet.

The "911" line won't be a bad line, but it may not be the quickest line, given the Boxsters well balanced handling.

Bavarian Motorist · 02-14-2007, 12:02 PM

I should read that book.

When I make very sharp turns on the road, like on an exit ramp, I just point the nose to the inside of the turn...seems to work lol

scottiesan · 02-14-2007, 12:03 PM

this may help you:

http://iiiiiiii.com/

or this

http://72.14.253.104/search?q=cache:c_2jkTQKCfoJ:www.porschenet.com/DEStudentManual.html+cornering+techniques&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=5&gl=us&client=firefox-a

Porsche Club Driving Manuals

NickCats · 02-14-2007, 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Perfectlap

Read this
book

now do your homework!

Thanks, Perfectlap !

Just bought the book so I can start reading it before autocross season starts

Sammy, be prepared for me to kick some butt this year...

Nick

Peer · 02-15-2007, 02:31 AM

Yfei wrote:
> Is this the right way on a boxster?

Perfectlap replied:
> Read this book
> now do your homework!

I'm sorry, but isn't this a bit disingenuous -- to give him the snotty "do your homework" reply when this can be said in lieu of most any post on this forum?! Since there isn't even a census of whether the Boxster over-steer or under-steer, I would be careful to beat up on someone who obviously brought up a valid and (at least to me) interesting issue.

-- peer

BuffaloBoxster · 02-15-2007, 06:27 AM

Depends on the corner, the car, the road conditions.. In the case of putting together a quick lap on the track, you have to consider the corner in context to those before it and after it.. Is it leading onto a straight? Or into a twisty section? By compromising your line on corner A, does that make your line for corner B that much faster that you more than make up the time lost in corner A? What's the braking zone like? Does your car have a lot of power? If so compromising your cornering speed for a line that lets you put the power down sooner might be quicker.

The best way to learn is to get on a track and follow someone who knows what they're doing.. Or attend a driving school.

Sammy · 02-15-2007, 07:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NickCats

Thanks, Perfectlap !

Just bought the book so I can start reading it before autocross season starts

Sammy, be prepared for me to kick some butt this year...

Nick

I'm looking forward to it!

FYI The Chicago SCCA is putting on a 2-day driver education course for people new to autocrossing. I'm not planning on going but wanted to give you the heads up (and I hope Djomlas and bmusatti read this as well).

unklekraker · 02-15-2007, 11:46 AM

How to use the tip's in the corners? Can you shift 2 gears down with a slight tap or pressure on the brake and pull an upshift as soon as you clear the corners? For short, can you enjoy a tiptronic on a turn or on AXross

?

racer_d · 02-15-2007, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by unklekraker

How to use the tip's in the corners? Can you shift 2 gears down with a slight tap or pressure on the brake and pull an upshift as soon as you clear the corners? For short, can you enjoy a tiptronic on a turn or on AXross

?

Of course you can enjoy a tip on an AX course. In my opinion, the tighter the course, the more enjoyable with a tip because you don't worry about shifting and heel/toe downshifting.

One of the local guys AX's a well modified Tip (aftermarket suspension, wide wheels, V710 khumos etc.) I had been running my 911 but it broke at an event so I drove this boxster. Was able to be 1-1.5 seconds quicker than in my modified 911 AND quicker than the owner. Fantastic car. Driving that car was a strong incentive to get a Boxster of my own. In this case, I just put it in gear and let the computer do the shifting.

My previous TIP AX experience I tried using the steering wheel controls. Bad idea. I hated the tip that day. Thought it slow and unresponsive. I've learned since then

Perfectlap · 02-15-2007, 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NickCats

Thanks, Perfectlap !

Just bought the book so I can start reading it before autocross season starts

Sammy, be prepared for me to kick some butt this year...

Nick

no problem, its a bible for sure. The illustrations are excellent.
And if you start now you may digest it all by the time APril rolls around.
Chapter One: PLAN OF ATTACK!

books are great for the mind, but it all goes out the window when you are driving(physical) and looking ahead (mental). In the begining its 100% physical, you are strictly reacting to the G's and the everything flashing before your eyes.
It all comes down to comfort. Until you get used to being in the cockpit and your instincts start to take over your physcial reactions/anticipations you will not have time to think about anything and you will be half a step behind losing .25-.5 seconds on each corner. As you log more seat time it becomes 90% mental and 10% physical and your lap times stay consistent within a matter of .1's

or maybe you are one of those lucky guys whose parents bought you a go kart at age five and didn't take it away.

Karting at an early age makes driving any kind of car at an older age a piece of cake.

racer_d · 02-15-2007, 05:32 PM

Karting (for my brother) and motocross bikes for everyone else. Motocross bikes give you a great feel for control/balance, especially when ridden in muddy/swampy/rough conditions. Karts, well, heck they are mini-cars afterall

Skip Barbers "going faster" (as linked above) and Henry Watts "secrets of solo racing" are great books for their respective fields.

unklekraker · 02-15-2007, 05:49 PM

thanks racer_d for letting me know that i could have fun with the Tip on AXross

but some question still un answered:
"How to use the tip's in the corners? Can you shift 2 gears down with a slight tap or pressure on the brake and pull an upshift as soon as you clear the corners?

im asking coz im going for a backroads driving this weekend and don't want to get stuck coz' i use the tip tranny wrong

thanks in advance, guys

BuffaloBoxster · 02-16-2007, 05:10 AM

Spending time in a kart at any age or experience level will improve your driving.

Period.

NickCats · 02-16-2007, 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Perfectlap

or maybe you are one of those lucky guys whose parents bought you a go kart at age five and didn't take it away.

Karting at an early age makes driving any kind of car at an older age a piece of cake.

I begged for a go cart, but I got a minibike instead

And they wonder why I like motorcycles ?

Nick