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- - Seat belts (http://986forum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=82233)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stl-986 (Post 646242)

Yea....why wasn't starter included???? lol

with only 5 original posts of his own & 1600+ posts of other threads makes ya kind of wonder who the troll really is.

Anyway...back to topic

Oh, you're on par to break my troll record. I've lightened up the past year or so. ;)

If I read a post for which I believe I've an intelligent response... I'm in. My responses 95%+ are based upon information I've been reading from upon these pages for the past 4+ years. Usually I won't respond to inquiries if the answer is obvious, or can be found on Google (or in this forum) in .00076453 seconds.

If the inquiry is about somthing personally I've exprienced with my 986, and it helped correct an anomaly, I'll offer my advice.

Weak are the asshats that block members simply because they don't get certain humor or sarcasm. Screw em. Life's too short. :ah::ah::ah::ah::ah:

Quote:

Originally Posted by ike84 (Post 646251)

Hah! Starter, nice to have you on board :)!

For me, the real problem is this. I simply don't trust the seat belt in this car. Call me crazy but here's why...

The belts are 20 years old. The common argument that oem seatbelts live forever because they don't get exposed to the sun just doesn't apply. Show me a boxster that doesn't have a faded red buckle latch from uv radiation. Btw, if that plastic is faded, it's structural integrity is compromised.

The latch is bolted to the rail - yes, it's not unheard of. But no sanctioning body in racing is ok with this setup (except if the manufacturer did it!). I get the reasoning - the cars went through crash tests. But its just not kosher in mind. Especially when considering that....

The hardware is crap! I haven't disassembled the belt winder or outboard anchor yet, but the seat rail bolts aren't high grade. Off the top of my head (and I could definitely be wrong) I don't remember seeing any markings on these or the bolt that holds the buckle to the rails. This means that either they are standard grade or made in house (which I highly doubt). I was blown away to not see a 12.9 stamped on those bolts.

Let's face it. If we made this system, no racing body would let us run it. They do though since Porsche passed the crash tests, but the scope of those tests did not necessarily silly to how these cars are driven (on and off the street)

So what is the best (safest) thing to do here for a street legal setup? New belts and receptacles from porsche every few years ($800 for both sides) and replace all the stock bolts with metric 12.9s? Not even possible for the seat brackets unless you tap new threads.

Let's not fall to mention the fact that the airbag system in our cars should be considered "dated" at the least by today's standards

Or you can ditch all of this and go with a street legal 4 point ASM belt but with very little objective data to support superiority (or even efficacy) to 3 point belts and all the questions of submarining and neck injuries that go along with them.

I just don't know the right answer here, and I ****************ing hate not knowing....

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I cleaned up my faded red buckles with Back to Black. Made them 100% red and new looking. My continued safety is assured. Yours, too, can be. Back to Black. :cheers:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Starter986 (Post 646256)

I cleaned up my faded red buckles with Back to Black. Made them 100% red and new looking. My continued safety is assured. Yours, too, can be. Back to Black. :cheers:

I had a feeling someone would make that point! You played right into my plan ;)

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I rerouted seatbelts through my seat yesterday to improve the lap belt position - very easy to do by removing the lower anchor bolt.

The bolt is grade 8.8, which is the minimum requirement from scca. At least we're meeting minimum requirements.... Smh

Oh, even better - there's a 1cm long standoff tube that sits down over the bolt shaft which means that the seatbelt is actually attached 1cm away from the threads at a 90 degree angle...i believe they call that a "lever"

I noticed something else last night - the roll bar cross members (where everyone wraps the shoulder harness attachmets around) are higher than the holes on my seat. That must be a mistake, I thought, maybe my seats aren't mounted properly? I started really examining things and sure enough, those roll bar points are WAY TOO HIGH to be used for shoulder straps - every respected manufacturer recommends an angle of 0 to -20 or -30 degrees from the shoulders to the point of attachment. The holes in my seat line up perfectly with the tops of my shoulder. This means I would have to raise my seat by 3-4 inches to make that setup work properly! I'm not that tall but I'm not sure Id be able to close the roof if my seat was that high!

I attached a pic of what I'm talking about here. This is not my setup but perfectly illustrates the point.

There are a ton of DE instructors amongst us - how do these setups pass inspection? I've never seen a mounting bar installed in one of these cars but that's what youd have to have in order to install the system properly since theres not e nough space behind the seat to do a floor mount.

I'm sure that everyone is tired of my ranting about this so I'll quit now, but for ****************s sake, I am the opposite of impressed with how they designed this "safety system" in our high performance automobile.

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They pass cause it's a factory part and it does meet the MINIMUM safety requirements. It's been a topic many times with many people. I have even seen instructors refuse to get in a car with this kind of setup & not a roll cage. Their argument was that they would rather have a factory seat & belt then one they consider less overall safe. These are usually the guys that have been around long enough to been in a wreck or two with someone in the green or even blue groups.

But....let's follow this string to where it can also lead....how is having the rear speaker tray even allowed, why aren't gloveboxes/storage required to be locked....not just closed? And on that subject....why can't there just be 1 standard for events like DE's as to what is allowed and isn't? Sure let's pass a setup like the above (just using as an example) but then allow shorts to be worn. I even went to one where they didn't require close toed shoes.

Anyway, back to your question. It's allowed because most consider that a roll bar and as such 5 pt are required to be attached to a roll bar, but nothing about the things you point out. For me, I'll stick with factory seat, belt & airbag that way I can just drive to the event and not have to trailer it and risk some local want to give me a ticket thinking the above isn't as good or as street legal as factory.

Rant over. lol

Well stated! I hate rules that exist just because "that's the way it's been done" . There should be a more systematic approach than this cobblestoned hodgepodge of "this will be allowed on Friday nights and every other Wednesday" lol. I'm just screwing around now but seriously I think the biggest thing in my mind is the failure of porsche to do a better job of setting up the system too begin with. They knew these cars would be tracked, they talk about it in the owners manual. Why didn't they design a safety system with that in mind. "oh well there's a roll cage". Fine but there too high for 5 points. "Will don't forget about that awesome windshield bracing". You mean the one that only goes 2/3 the way up? So much for the broomstick test counting for **************** when that crumpled 6 inches. "oh, well the factory restraint setup is great as it is". Yeah sure, with minimum grade hardware and a latch position now allowed by any racing body if placed there by your hands.

Ahhh **************** it, safety third!

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