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Thank you for the continued help and ideas! |
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Hello all. Time for another update.
Things I've learned: 1. STFT is called Oxygen Sensor Integrator on my 986 01S (I think). 2. I reached out to Durametric regarding the discrepancy on P1126 between what Durametric was reporting "Porsche Fault Code 356 - Multiplic. mixture adapt. lower load range B.1:" and Bentley "Porsche DTC 35 Oxygen Sensing Area 1 Cylinders 4-6 - rich mixture threshold". Durametric doubled down on bank 1, indicating their data was such: a. P1126: "Oxygen sensing adaption, lower load range, bank 1." b. P1126: "Fuel system multiplicative Bank 1, fuel trim limits exceeded." c. P1126: "Fuel system multiplicative Bank 1, Range 2 (multipl. fault) load (rl) > threshold and air mass > threshold." VERDICT: This response from Durametric combined with the change in engine feel after installing new Bank 1 fuel injectors, I'm calling this a Bank 1 code. Whether it's being tripped for range 1 rich or range 2 rich or lean, I'm not sure. OK, on to some of the work I've completed since last check-in: I removed the upstream O2 sensors one at a time and performed a back-pressure test on each bank. Both banks had nearly zero back pressure at idle and not much more at 2500 RPM (maybe .5-1 psi). I inspected upstream view of each cat with a borescope and verified they do not appear plugged, nor are they burned through or anything like that. I left the new upstream O2 sensors in place and collected a lot of data. P1126 did return after about 50 miles of driving. Fuel trims are nearly identical for Bank 1 and Bank 2, RKAT is now roughly -3.5 and FRA is roughly 1.3, which causes me to question why I'm not receiving a code for Bank 2 as well? Comparing a Normalized MAF signal (divided MAF signal by idle value of 15) to the Throttle Position Sensor 1, I got the following graph: https://i.imgur.com/UZXjZBA.jpg Not sure if this tracks similar to how blue62 described or not? Also during data collection, kept an eye on MAF outputs. Is the MAF supposed to reach up over 582 kg/h (& 3.58 V) at 5260 RPM? I'm not sure on what the correct values are but this one appears to be functioning to me (output responses to increase air flow). Next warm day, the spark plug tubes go in. I'll post any updates after that. Any input/thoughts/new troubleshooting is appreciated. Aside from investigating the EVAP component under Bank 2 intake manifold and attempting to evaluate the 2 electronic change-over valves (one SAI and the other for the resonance flap) I'm kind of out of ideas. Edit: Forgot to mention, observed fuel economy has largely improved and seems back to normal. |
Your MAF signal compared to the TPS signal looks normal to me.
So I believe you MAF is fine. You say your fuel mileage is back up??? Improvements are good. Any idea what your MPG is currently??? Do you think the fuel mileage improvement is from changing the injectors??? |
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Yes, fuel economy seems to have largely returned to earlier numbers. I do not have an absolute number, but I'd estimate it at about 20mpg (~75 miles per quarter tank). This is varied driving conditions while test driving. I can only attribute this change to the replacement of Bank 1 fuel injectors, because Bank 2 fuel injectors didn't seem to make much of a difference to engine performance or fuel economy. Regarding engine performance, most, if-not-all, of the cold-start idle weirdness has gone away. I have no black smoke (rich condition) at idle, nor any soot on the tailpipes, and the exhaust does not smell of gasoline. The old O2 sensors had a mostly white-tan light coating, which seems normal. Also, my RKAT numbers for both banks have gone further negative to -3.5 since changing Bank 1 fuel injectors. Yet, I'm still only throwing code P1126. I got a little fed up trying to decipher Durametric data, so I bought a bluetooth obd and android app to watch the new O2 sensors and the post-cat sensors (as well as STFT, this is before I figured out it's PID in Durametric). All four O2 sensors and the STFT values looked very much closer to the data from ScannerDanner's videos (flat line for the downstream O2 sensors and adaptation behavior from the upstream sensors) than anything I was able to plot from Durametric data. No conclusions drawn here, it's just the way it is. As I learn to use the Android app better, I will try to output data from there as well if you want a look. This thread has gotten long, so I will post a roll-up (TLDR style) summary shortly to get a snapshot of the current situation and hopefully, something might jump out, because right now, I'm not sure where to go next. Thanks again! |
Troubleshooting code P1126 which seems to be Bank 1 range 1 rich limit exceeded. Initially the car also began idling poorly and backfiring through the intake. Most of this has cleared but P1126 reoccurs after clearing.
TLDR-style roll-up of troubleshooting performed thus far for clarity: 1. MAF - cleaned twice, outputs in Durametric seem good, 15 kg/h and 1.28-1.33 Volts at idle - both increase with engine speed 2. Throttle body, plenum and resonator removed and cleaned - not very dirty and very little oil present, all vacuum hoses inspected and verified connections 3. Fuel filter replaced 4. Fuel pump volume flow tested at fuel filter - 1.25L of fuel collected in 30 seconds (is this a potential problem above specified 850mL??) 5. Fuel pressure tested at fuel rail - 3.8 bar with engine off and fuel pump by-passed, 3.3 bar at idle - meets Porsche spec 6. Spark plugs replaced - old ones were not overly fouled, but electrodes had wear 7. Intake Smoke Test #1 - no leaking smoke observed 8. Crankcase Pressure Manometer - -4.95 to -5.05 inches of water column, re-checked yesterday, no change - AOS appears functional 9. Bank 2 fuel injectors replaced with new Bosch fuel injectors and fuel pressure regulator replaced (while fuel rail was out) - no perceived change or Durametric data changes 10. Bank 1 fuel injectors replaced with new Bosch fuel injectors - engine idles and performs much better, fuel economy returned; Banks 1&2 RKAT (range 1 LTFT) further decreased from -2.15 to -3.5, supporting rich at idle CEL 11. Upstream O2 sensors replaced - Originals still appear functional 12. Exhaust Bank 1 & 2 Back-pressure tested - ~0 psi at idle and 0.5-1.0 psi at 2500 RPM - no obstruction 13. Visual inspection of Cats at upstream O2 sensor port - seem largley intact, a few fractures at outer edges but otherwise intact (further investigations?) 14. Spark plug tubes - small leaks at cylinder 1 and cylinder 5 - will replace soon 15. Power Brake Booster line - Went on deep discount, so purchased - will replace soon 16. Intake Vacuum Test - just learned of Porsche suggested test - At fuel pressure regulator, attach vacuum gauge and look for 5.8 to 8.7 psi of vacuum - will perform soon 17. Intake Smoke Test #2 - will perform soon Worth noting: Bank 1 camshaft deviation is -8.2 degrees and Bank 2 camshaft deviation is -4.26 degrees. Bank 1 deviation is outside +/- 6 spec by Porsche but not enough to throw a CEL. Don't know if this could be causing the issues? Still getting P1126 code after 30-50 miles of driving. Thanks for looking, any help is appreciated! |
Hey fan, glad to hear you're making progress. I could be wrong but I think that p1126 is a lean condition? Your negative fuel trim would support that. If you've got new injectors and good pressure then I would suspect a small leak. I know you said you smoked it but as we all know small leaks can be a pita for even the best to find.
Somebody else chime in on this, I don't wanna steer you wrong. Sent from my POCOPHONE F1 using Tapatalk |
Porschefan: Have you looked at the freeze frame info when the p1126 code triggers???
Could be a clue in that info. I know you have smoke tested it and that the code is for just the one bank but the p1126 code is most often associated with some form of vacuum leak!! |
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Faulty injectors, Faulty O2 sensors, Or a Faulty MAF sensor can all cause a lean situation. Porschefan has replaced or proven all those things good so I am still betting on a vacuum leak of some kind. |
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I am honestly not sure one way or the other if it a lean or rich code. I have this excerpt from the Porsche/Bosch DME code list: In above, being "below limit" can go one of two ways in my mind. If it's referring to the fuel trim being below limit, that would indicate a rich condition to me, because fuel trim would be subtracting from the injector time. If it's an O2 sensor that is below limit, to me that means lean because below .45mV is lean and above .45 mV is rich, unless I've got that reversed. The fact that Banks 1&2 RKAT are negative seems to support rich at idle to me as well, as RKAT is "range 1" so far as I can tell, which includes idle. Other news and updates, I just had some warm temps in the garage, so I vacuum tested the power brake booster line and it held vacuum. I also started the car, pulled the vacuum hose from the fuel pressure regulator (rpms surged) and pulled about 10 psi of vacuum (over Porsche specification, I wonder if this means anything?). So the intake vacuum appears intact, if not high. That said, once outdoor temps are above 55F, I'll be smoking the intake again to look for leaks. Anyway, if anything jumps out at anyone, please let me know. I need some next troubleshooting steps. |
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just curious, could a Dry fuel injector Seal could cause a vacuum leak..?
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If you have to replace your injectors or o-rings, I used a small amount of the recommended white lithium grease on all of the o-rings and it really made everything go back together nicely and prevents the o-rings from twisting upon insertion. Thanks! |
Before you bust out that smoke machine I would look at some vacuum diagrams so you're familiar with the system. The vacuum houses, changeover valves, vacuum resivoir, etc are kinda complicated - not so much in theory, just in the layout. Hairline cracks in the vacuum resivoir, for example, have driven people to the brink of insanity. If you go over everything with the smoke machine and get nowhere I would bust out the brake cleaner to double check. Good luck!
Sent from my POCOPHONE F1 using Tapatalk |
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I'm fairly certain it's not the reservoir, because if I pull the vacuum line between it and the one-way valve after running the car, I can hear it suck in air. Perhaps I'll get in there and just test lines and y-fittings with my hand pump because it's easy to do and doesn't stink like the smoke machine. I also wouldn't mind some information on how to test the change-over valves. I have a 12V power supply and the ability to regulate voltage, so I'd like to actually test them for operation. I'll keep looking. All this said, I just pulled 10 psi of vacuum at the fuel pressure regulator which is pretty healthy intake vacuum, if I am not mistaken. Porsche troubleshooting manual for checking fuel pressure regulator operation specified 6-9 psi of vacuum on this hose. I HOPE it's a vacuum leak, but at this point, with RKAT at -3.5, it appears this motor is running rich at idle, not lean like I'd expect for a vacuum leak. To further muddy the waters though, when I used my cheap bluetooth OBD-II with Torque Pro, the LTFT (not divided into RKAT and FRA in Torque app) showed that they were pegged POSITIVE for both banks, which would support a vacuum leak. |
I just realized that I said something that doesn't make sense and I am now far more confused. 1126 is lean, but negative fuel trim is the car pulling fuel out. I typed that earlier in a rush and didn't realize what I had said.
But that was the original reason I recommended changing the o2 sensors in the first place - things are pointing to a lean condition but the sensors are reading rich and hence the ecu is pulling fuel. I'm not sure I'm helping at this point lol. This seems really screwy to me though and I'm not sure I can explain it any further at this point. Sorry dude :(. I would still check for leaks if you've had every off recently but the continued 1126 when sensors are detecting rich and pulling fuel back has got me thoroughly confused. Sent from my POCOPHONE F1 using Tapatalk |
Thanks for the tip!
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Quick update - all information I am able to find states 17 to 23 inches of HG (8.35 psi to 11.3 psi) for proper intake vacuum. This contradicts the Porsche information I had (5.8psi to 8.7 psi) but I imagine being within a +/- 1 psi might be acceptable.
Only posting this because if I have proper intake vacuum, it seems less likely I have a vacuum leak, so I'm hoping those numbers jump out. If not, I think this leaves me with the EVAP system (electric valve stuck open? but no CEL or code?) and then it's on to mechanical problems with the engine (timing, valve seat issues, compression). Thanks for your time! |
Hello all, time for another frustrating update.
So, I replaced the spark plug tubes. This made no change (well, no more oil on the valve covers) but after two test drives, no P1126, fuel economy seems to have returned but the car just feels "slow" overall and the induction noise is muted. It just doesn't sound or feel 100%. Additionally, I found two threads that mentioned the contacts within the electronic throttle control on the throttle body can be misaligned and for someone, this was causing their 986 to run rich at idle. I opened it up, cleaned up the electrical contacts, but overall it looked healthy and clean. Simultaneously, I also purchased a new electronic change-over valve for the resonator flap. I got a little encouraged when I found the rubber vacuum boot attached to the old change-over valve was stiff and looked tired. I replaced it with new rubber vacuum hose. All of this resulted in no change to engine operation and after about 120 miles of test drives, P1126 returned and this time with a P0107. I had this code briefly a few months back, but I didn't have my battery tender at the time and the car had been sitting, so I assumed it was related to low voltage, reset the code and continued troubleshooting. This is the first time it has returned. According to the Bentley manual, P0107 isn't listed for DME 7.2 but Durametric reported it with the same verbiage as listed that in the Bentley manual for DME 5.2.2. https://i.imgur.com/jFHCYoD.jpg I've read a couple of posts on P0107 and the MAP sensor is internal to the DME, so it seems the advice goes one of three ways: a. Reset code and see b. A bad MAF might be the culprit c. Replace the DME Anyone have any experience with P0107 and P1126? My MAF data makes it appear the MAF is functioning properly. Is it possible it's an intermittent failure with the MAF? Any help or ideas will be much appreciated! Thanks. |
P0107 Ambient Pressure Sensor – Below Limit
Possible causes: - Short circuit to ground The ambient pressure sensor measures the air pressure. The ambient pressure sensor is incorporated in the DME control module. |
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From what I understand, the proper way to diagnose this would be to check for voltage and ground at the appropriate pins in the harness to the ECU and if that's good, then to look for the MAP output in Durametric? My problem is I'm not seeing anything labeled ambient pressure sensor in the wiring diagrams for the DME 7.2 in the Bentley manual. I see a "Sensor, Differentiale E12/E11", but it looks to be external of the ME and feeds to the two Camshaft Sensors. I also don't recall seeing a PID for MAP in Durametric. Does anyone have troubleshooting procedures or pictures, or even past experiences to help me dig into P0107? Also wondering if this can be causing P1126? Any help is appreciated. Thanks! |
Hello all! I think I have some positive news. I want to thank each and every person who chimed in with ideas and helped me through this. I pulled a few posts that I'll quote below, and then get on with what's new!
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I found 3 posts of people with P0107 & P1126 at the same time. In all three cases, a new MAF ended up being the fix. So, I unplugged the MAF this morning. Bank 1 & 2 RKAT 0.0 and FRA 0.99 (I don't think they adapt without a MAF) and O2 sensors looking good the whole test drive, she drove like a bat out of hell and wailed like a banshee the way I remembered. Intake funkiness on throttle is gone and oddly enough, some top end noises (valves, chains?) that had me guessing disappeared as well. I've got a new MAF on order and it'll be here Saturday. So, what I *think* happened was a combination of things. I think I had a leaking bottom o-ring and/or fouling on one of the Bank 1 fuel injectors, because all of the sputtering and intake back firing ceased after they were replaced. I also think I had a failed MAF due to the K&N air filter that I had been meaning to replace but didn't until I had issues. The bad injector had the car sputtering and popping and the bad MAF had us chasing our tail on rich at idle. I unplugged the MAF before changing the fuel injectors, so I didn't get any change because of injector issues and after changing the injectors, because my MAF appeared to be functioning in Durametric, I never took it back out of the loop. I will report back on Saturday after I drive it and capture data with the new MAF in, but I'm cautiously optimistic. Regarding the P0107, the ambient pressure sensor is reporting 1010 hPa in Durametric, which corresponds with 1 bar, so that looks to be functioning properly. Right now, the car has codes P0102 and a code for intake air temperature sensor (both are MAF codes, as expected). At the end of the day, I think the only parts changed prematurely may have been the upstream Bosch O2 sensors, but at like $40 each, I will not be complaining!!! A very sincere thank you again to all of you!! |
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Congrats on (hopefully) getting it figured out. Let us know what happens! Sent from my POCOPHONE F1 using Tapatalk |
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Will post update as soon as the new MAF is in! |
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Also this default fuel map is on the rich side so if you have a vacuum leak and you unplug the MAF the car tends to run very well. Not to say your issue is not MAF related could very well be. Will be interesting to hear the outcome after you install the new MAF. I hope you ordered a Bosch MAF these cars don't seem to do well on after market MAF sensors. Also if your running a K&N filter that is the oil type they destroy MAF sensors;) |
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EDIT: Forgot to mention, yes, it's the Bosch replacement MAF and the K&N filter is in a landfill somewhere these days. Replaced with OEM air filter. |
Ok, I think I'm going to call this the end for now. I installed the new MAF sensor and took a test drive. Wow, what a difference, driving much better than without the MAF. I did not reset the codes (P0102 and P0112, both for MAF) as I was thinking they'll reset themselves after a couple of drive cycles like other codes. Is this true for the MAF codes or should I just reset them?
I took some data samples as well. Bank 1 RKAT is -0.17 & FRA is 1.00. Bank 2 RKAT is -0.20 and FRA is also 1.00. O2 sensors all looked like they were doing their thing! Very excited, but I only did roughly 20 mile test drive tonight because: https://i.imgur.com/3oQh5N3.jpg Out of the frying pan and into the fire HAHA It doesn't look like it's been leaking for long, and it is a very small leak. I got my borescope out and I think it's a crack in the tank at the usual spot underneath: https://i.imgur.com/q8akGf3.jpg Sorry about the poor focus but it's essentially a point-and-shoot 1080p borescope. Tank, cap & sending unit are ordered and should be arriving mid-week, so I guess that's the next project for now. Once that's replaced, I'll put some miles on the car with the new MAF and verify I do not get the codes back. I'll post back after a few hundred miles. Thanks all for all of the help! |
Damn brother, you can't catch a break!
Sent from my POCOPHONE F1 using Tapatalk |
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I would clean it all up and let it dry out and then check to see if it's still leaking. You could have had too much in there and this from overfill...but that should have gone out of the car, not in the trunk. I have seen much worse with a bad coolant tank. Could also be a bad coolant cap. Once it's all cleaned up and dry you can just start the car and then watch to see if it leaks again.
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Well, another 20 miles on the new MAF and the CEL has gone out, Bank 1 RKAT is at -0.05 and Bank 2 RKAT is -0.12. Banks 1 & 2 FRA are 0.98 and 0.99 respectively. The P0102 and P0112 are still saved as fault codes but CEL is out, so working as intended I think.
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Just a brief follow-up on the expansion tank, the new one is in. It was just a matter of time before this one let go, probably at some inopportune time whilst on vacation.
https://i.imgur.com/BXJxF4F.jpg |
Just to follow up and close this out, 250 more miles and no codes or lights and the car feels amazing again. Thanks to everyone for their help with this.
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Sent from my POCOPHONE F1 using Tapatalk |
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