Is a "Tracked" Car a Negative?

[BoxMann]

I'm looking at a 2005 S right now which I think has been tracked. Don't know for sure, but the prior owner (not my Seller) upgraded the front suspension and installed camber adjustable LCA's. Maybe he did that for street use, but if I had to bet, he tracked it.

So, my question is, whether this should be considered a negative when shopping for a used Boxster. I understand that Porsches are meant to be driven somewhat aggressively, with spirit, and not like a Buick, but is tracking one maybe a little more "spirit" than what a Buyer might want.

[Flavor 987S]

It's a 14 year old car. The maintenance history is more important. In general, guys that track (DE or AutoX) their cars are more diligent than your "Dr. Owned Car", for example. Just saying.

[The Radium King]

+1. might be a bit harder on suspension, but with new lcas in there then big money already spent. you'll get rash on the front bumper cover, but easy enough to check. the overrev report would let you know if he's hammered on the engine.

[BoxMann]

Originally Posted by The Radium King

the overrev report would let you know if he's hammered on the engine.

Not familiar with the "overrev report". Can you explain further?

[BoxMann]

Originally Posted by The Radium King

+1. might be a bit harder on suspension, but with new lcas in there then big money already spent.

Are you saying that the new LCAs were probably put in there to replace damaged old ones, as opposed to, just wanting to get camber adj ones in there?

[NewArt]

When you get your ppi, the mechanic will use a Durametric or other Porsche specific tool to read the codes and other pertinent information. One of the items will be revs in range 1 and range 2. Range 2 is the number of ignitions past redline. If there a a number of these, it might suggest that the car has been tracked.

[Flavor 987S]

Originally Posted by NewArt

When you get your ppi, the mechanic will use a Durametric or other Porsche specific tool to read the codes and other pertinent information. One of the items will be revs in range 1 and range 2. Range 2 is the number of ignitions past redline. If there a a number of these, it might suggest that the car has been tracked.

Actually, there are 6 ove-rev ranges on this 987.1 car. Not just two like the prior 986.

[husker boxster]

Not much earth shattering additions to what others have already stated, just will expand a bit.

My LE is my fair weather, spring to fall garage queen. My CSS is my winter beater / DE car. In a lot of ways, my CSS is in better condition than my LE b/c I'm constantly making sure she's ready for the next event. Things like brake pads, brake fluid, tire wear, shorter oil intervals, etc are some of the items that are monitored closer.

Rumor has it a tracked car will be less prone to IMS failure as the exercise in the upper RPM range helps keep the IMS lubricated. Ultra low mileage cars that have the grease washed out of the IMS depend on the oil to lubricate it and if it's sitting for long periods of time, the oil drips off the bearings and you're starting it dry. Once again, strictly theory and you can take it or leave it for how true it is. Don't want to turn this thread into another IMS battle.

An over-rev report is a must. There are 6 ranges on the 987. I'm not an expert but you'll get the majority of hits in range 1 & 2. Some in range 3 and 4 may appear, esp if it was a track car. Ranges 5 & 6 are not good (6 more so than 5). However, if some appear in 5 & 6, don't immediately discard the car. There have been instances where the report was actually not correct. You need to closely examine the data around all the numbers to see if these are false positives. For example, 15 hits in R6 but only 5 in R4. There is a lot of info on Planet-9 on how to read a 987 over-rev report.

Also, if constantly run up to redline, there might be issues with the rod bearings. Porsche did not use a high quality rod bolt in the 987. Lots of runs up to redline can stretch the rod bolts, allowing the bearings to slip. I shift at 6K rpm rather than running up to 7K to help reduce the stress. The over-rev report will give you an indication of how many times its bounced off the rev limiter.

Might want to see what the date is on the alignment. Track cars can wear out the LCA bushings which makes it harder to get them in proper alignment. Check the sheet to see if the final #s are spot on or barely 'within specs'.

And another item to check are wheel bearings. Constant gator runs can wear them out if the gators are severe. Simple test to determine their health. Just mention to the inspector to spend some time there.

[The Radium King]

lcas put there to get more camber. but, it's a newer part designed for track use.

get a ppi; ask that they include the overrev report - information on how often the car has hit redline, exceeded redline by various rpms (the report depends on the year of the car; 986 has two overrev ranges, the 987 has i think six).

[BoxMann]

Originally Posted by The Radium King

lcas put there to get more camber. but, it's a newer part designed for track use.

Yeah, that's why I figured the car was tracked. Current owner says he had the car recently aligned to neutral, which I think is factory spec. Or is it -1°?

get a ppi; ask that they include the overrev report - information on how often the car has hit redline, exceeded redline by various rpms (the report depends on the year of the car; 986 has two overrev ranges, the 987 has i think six).

Yes, I most definitely intend to get a PPI, probably this Friday. And I'll ask that they run the overrev report. Thank you.

[BoxMann]

Lots of good info there, HB. Thanks much.

One more Q: Does the Overrev report only report what's in excess of redline? What about what's close to redline?

[husker boxster]

Here is some interesting reading explaining the DME report:

https://www.planet-9.com/faq.php?faq=techdata#faq_overrev

[BoxMann]

Originally Posted by husker boxster

Here is some interesting reading explaining the DME report:

https://www.planet-9.com/faq.php?faq=techdata#faq_overrev

That was great. Really helps explain it. Thanks again, HB.

[BoxMann]

Originally Posted by BoxMann

I'm looking at a 2005 S right now which I think has been tracked. Don't know for sure, but the prior owner (not my Seller) upgraded the front suspension and installed camber adjustable LCA's.

I have some additional info on the car and maybe someone can help me with this.

I understand that the car has "H&R Springs, RSS Billet Aluminum LCAs, monoball ends and spherical bearings"

I know the LCAs are for camber adjustment, but can someone tell me what the rest of that means?

Also, there's a note there that says these upgrades are "causing slight MVH". Don't know what that acronym is or what that statement means.

Thanks.

[husker boxster]

Originally Posted by BoxMann

I have some additional info on the car and maybe someone can help me with this.

I understand that the car has "H&R Springs, RSS Billet Aluminum LCAs, monoball ends and spherical bearings"

I know the LCAs are for camber adjustment, but can someone tell me what the rest of that means?

Also, there's a note there that says these upgrades are "causing slight MVH". Don't know what that acronym is or what that statement means.

Thanks.

Monoball ends replace the rubber bushings I was referring to in my post stating things wear out and cause alignment issues. They attach the LCA to the body. Spherical bearings are also a rubber bushing replacements in the LCA. Both items tighten up your suspension compared to their rubber counterparts. Look at tarett.com for examples.

These items tend to stiffen the ride, which leads to NVH - noise, vibration, and harshness. I don't have the H&R springs, but I do have the other 2. Yes there is a bit stiffer ride, but not unbearable. I drive my CSS in winter, which should exacerbate the issue but I find it barely noticeable.

To paraphrase Seinfeld, whatcha got Georgie boy, is a track car.

[BoxMann]

Originally Posted by husker boxster

Monoball ends replace the rubber bushings I was referring to in my post stating things wear out and cause alignment issues. They attach the LCA to the body. Spherical bearings are also a rubber bushing replacements in the LCA. Both items tighten up your suspension compared to their rubber counterparts. Look at tarett.com for examples.

These items tend to stiffen the ride, which leads to NVH - noise, vibration, and harshness. I don't have the H&R springs, but I do have the other 2. Yes there is a bit stiffer ride, but not unbearable. I drive my CSS in winter, which should exacerbate the issue but I find it barely noticeable.

To paraphrase Seinfeld, whatcha got Georgie boy, is a track car.

Another terrific reply from HB. Thank you, sir.

[steved0x]

Originally Posted by BoxMann

I have some additional info on the car and maybe someone can help me with this.

I understand that the car has "H&R Springs, RSS Billet Aluminum LCAs, monoball ends and spherical bearings"

I know the LCAs are for camber adjustment, but can someone tell me what the rest of that means?

Also, there's a note there that says these upgrades are "causing slight MVH". Don't know what that acronym is or what that statement means.

Thanks.

You can remove those RSS LCA without too much trouble (maybe 2 hours of shop labor, most likely they are just on the front) and replace with OEM LCA (Meyle ~$100 x 2) and get a new alignment, and then sell the RSS LCA and come out decently ahead in terms of $$$. You can sell them to me, I am getting a Cayman and will be adding something similar to that one, once I get it that is ) If you are close to FL I will help you swap them out.

NVH - I have got spherical bearings everywhere except the castor bushing which is still the stock rubber (where you have a solid bushing in the RSS) and it isn't too bad. I don't think it will bother you, but then I have been gradually adding on racy bits to mine over time so it may have snuck up on me. Have you done a test drive? Or is this a remote car?

[BoxMann]

Originally Posted by steved0x

You can remove those RSS LCA without too much trouble (maybe 2 hours of shop labor, most likely they are just on the front) and replace with OEM LCA (Meyle ~$100 x 2) and get a new alignment, and then sell the RSS LCA and come out decently ahead in terms of $$$. You can sell them to me, I am getting a Cayman and will be adding something similar to that one, once I get it that is ) If you are close to FL I will help you swap them out.

That thought crossed my mind -- that those parts might be valuable to a guy who tracks. Ditto for the springs, I think. Would it make sense to do that for the springs too? I don't need a lowered suspension.

Have you done a test drive? Or is this a remote car?

The car is 900 miles away. But I was thinking of possibly just flying there on a day trip to test drive it to see how it feels, and if it's ok, maybe then do the PPI. Of course, there's more expense going that route.

With all that said, this ain't the only used Boxster S around, and I'm in no big hurry to buy one. I could buy one this week or I could buy one in two months, I don't care. This may not be worth all the bother.

[seningen]

Those LCA's aren't cheap -- you don't buy them for the street.

That being said, I echo others statements.

If you have any inkling of tracking it (and a Boxster S is a great track car) -- and the price is right and
everything else checks out -- I'd snag it.

If not, find another car -- the track aspect will nag you -- and your ultimately paying for something you don't value, but the right person will.

cheers,

Mike

[BoxMann]

Originally Posted by seningen

Those LCA's aren't cheap -- you don't buy them for the street.

That being said, I echo others statements.

If you have any inkling of tracking it (and a Boxster S is a great track car) -- and the price is right and everything else checks out -- I'd snag it.

If not, find another car -- the track aspect will nag you -- and your ultimately paying for something you don't value, but the right person will.

Yes Mike, it seems to be going in that direction. This is a track car and I have no present interest in tracking it. It may well wear on me, or "nag me" as you say. Seems that it would be more than a "slight" difference in NVH, a pretty noticeable one it seems. Plus, the H&R springs lower the car and I believe that could cause tire scraping on an uneven surface (is that true?). I certainly don't need that to be happening.

I'm going to think about this a little further, but I think I might let this one go.

Thank you for your reply.