Glad to see Porsche moving back towards manual transmissions

[Dave S.]

Porsche sees error of ways, next 911 GT3 to offer manual transmission

[rick3000]

I would image with the impending threat of electric and self-driving cars, focusing on the driving experience, and connection/control between the driver and a Porsche is a good business and marketing move.
I hope they continue this trend!

[Porsche9]

I am all for this. For sports cars giving the customer the choice is good business and separates them from others.

[Perfectlap]

I think its only because their analysts figured out that there would be fewer in-warranty engine issues on a manual shift with a single turbo engine than with a manual shift on high powered naturally aspirated engine, and more wiggle room due to the lower cost (ultimately) of leaving NA engines. Higher mpgs is the cherry on top. I'm sure in the end the overwhelming majority of 911, and 981 will be PDK turbos and now they can say "oh you want old school in your top of the line 911? We have that too... so quit whinging!!".

What I find most interesting is that the GT4 was not an option. It was manual only.
They must fear how fast it would be with PDK. But those NA-engine cars will be a thing of the past soon.

[Giller]

Originally Posted by Perfectlap

Higher mpgs is the cherry on top.

PDK boasts higher MPG than a manual transmission. It shifts cleaner and faster than manual transmissions do.

[Perfectlap]

Originally Posted by Giller

PDK boasts higher MPG than a manual transmission. It shifts cleaner and faster than manual transmissions do.

I was referring to going turbo four and leaving NA six but I'm sure you know this as well.
A turbo four/six plus PDK is the holy grail for Porsche, they get fewer in-warranty issues from people screwing up their engines or transmissions, lower costs to make more power and keep up with the other Germans, higher mpg to a market that is no longer impressed with 30+mpg highway, and quicker lap times all around. The manual shift NA six has reached its limit on reliability, power and costs that Porsche is willing to stomach.

[PaulE]

I often wonder if there was as much gnashing of teeth in the old days when electric starters replaced hand cranks, mechanical fuel pumps replaced hand pumps coming through the dashboard, and ignition spark automatically advanced by vacuum/centrifugal means instead of a lever in the middle of the steering wheel. Automatics and computer controlled manual transmissions have come a long way from the automatics of the 1950's to 1980's. Is the lack of a clutch pedal such a loss of control over the car when gears can still be manually controlled if desired? When the hotshoes on Porsche's payroll set lap records at the Nurburgring in PDK cars and say they just leave it in drive and let the computer shift for them, I have to think the PDK must be pretty good.

My Boxster is a manual, and all of my other sports cars have also been manual, but I've had lots of cars with automatics that have been fun too.

PS, choice is good though, glad to see manuals are still being offered.

[911monty]

Unfortunately they are not doing this for driving enjoyment... or perhaps they are. According to the latest issue of Panorama in discussing PDK and dual clutch transmissions vs. manual, Quote "However , the tide is reversing a bit due to reliability problems that have been cropping up with increasing regularity"

[tomonomics]

Originally Posted by 911monty

Unfortunately they are not doing this for driving enjoyment... or perhaps they are. According to the latest issue of Panorama in discussing PDK and dual clutch transmissions vs. manual, Quote "However , the tide is reversing a bit due to reliability problems that have been cropping up with increasing regularity"

Also of interest in that article was that 80% of all 911's are ordered with PDK, so clearly it's the preference of new buyers by a large margin. The last time I heard a number like that was for the 928 S4, which is kinda what the 911 has become....the grand touring car in the lineup.

I still want one, just a 997 GTS with three pedals.

[kk2002s]

With all this technology taking the driver out of the loop:
I can't wait for the day when the driver can curl up in the back seat with a nice book, fuzzy slippers, a glass of Chardonnay and set the fastest laps at Nurburgring

Porsche needs to sell cars (That have to meet gov standards of course) so the decisions they take reflects that goal

No doubt PDK is more efficient and faster, great on the track - BUT driving back roads on a nice Sunday drive - - Me thinks buyers till imagine rowing through the gears on their own - - At least I do

But then again who the hell am I - I have a used 14 year old "It's just a Boxster"

[rick3000]

To me, the funniest part about the rise of automatics (and self-driving cars, etc) is that every time I have taken a friend for a spin in my 986, every single person says, "Wow, it's a manual, I wish I knew how to drive one." I suspect that if more people learned to drive a stick, manual sales in general would be a lot higher.

[Perfectlap]

Originally Posted by 911monty

Unfortunately they are not doing this for driving enjoyment... or perhaps they are. According to the latest issue of Panorama in discussing PDK and dual clutch transmissions vs. manual, Quote "However , the tide is reversing a bit due to reliability problems that have been cropping up with increasing regularity"

Kinda hard to make something last that nearly everyone has no idea how to service.
When is that ever a good recipe?

I predict many rusty PDK equipped 911 and Boxster/Cayman carcasses piling up in junk yards. "they sure were purty when they were new".

[911monty]

Originally Posted by Perfectlap

Kinda hard to make something last that nearly everyone has no idea how to service.
When is that ever a good recipe?

I predict many rusty PDK equipped 911 and Boxster/Cayman carcasses piling up in junk yards. "they sure were purty when they were new".

I think you are spot on. I believe you can also add PASM equipped cars to this thought. One can read the articles from DIYer's in this forum discussing the cost of suspension work. I think many PASM owners will also balk when they have to spend ~$2k+in parts alone per corner. The cost to repair these cars will certainly make them unattractive in the long term.

[BoxsterLS376]

Out of curiosity how many of you have driven a PDK car?

Personally I've always been a manual transmission purist - "i'll never drive an automatic" bla bla bla. Well I went to the Porsche driving experience and got to flog on a new 911 S with PDK and it completely changed my mind.

PDK is the shiznit, I hope they get cheap!

[BoxsterLS376]

Originally Posted by BoxsterLS376

Out of curiosity how many of you have driven a PDK car?

Well considering the silence I think you all need to go try a PDK car out and then comment on how bad they are.

Go check one out, I think you'll be surprised.

[tomonomics]

Originally Posted by BoxsterLS376

Well considering the silence I think you all need to go try a PDK car out and then comment on how bad they are.

Go check one out, I think you'll be surprised.

I've been fortunate to drive quite a few, and agree with you that they are amazing (Cayman GTS still one of the better drives I've ever had, though it was on a racetrack). But I think the underlying theme here is that the driver is a bit less connected with the car, which for me is one more thing that separates a regular car (aka transportation) to a sports car, or more specifically, a Porsche.

Having said that, you're still using two hands to control the gears, and one of those hands does not need to leave the steering wheel when shifting in a turn. But that left leg, man....it's just sitting there on the dead pedal!!!

Racetrack? PDK
Daily driver? PDK
Any other time, like a Sunday drive? I'd still like to row my own.

While at some point in the future it may not make financial sense, I hope there's always a manual transmission option on the 911 and any roadster that Porsche makes.

[Perfectlap]

Originally Posted by BoxsterLS376

Well considering the silence I think you all need to go try a PDK car out and then comment on how bad they are.

Go check one out, I think you'll be surprised.

I drove the first gen PDK in a 987 Cayman. There was noticeable lag and struck as me as no different than any other dual clutch paddle. I've always wanted to drive a single clutch paddle but my tax returns have not yet put me in the Aventador bracket (or certain Ferraris). I think if you're going to put paddles in a sports car do it like on the sport bikes... granted maybe daily drivers don't want all that excitement on the way to Starbucks.

When I heard that the latest gen of PDK was tectonic improvement I was not surprised but still not interested because like electric steering it's simply over-refined. Yes it executes shifts immediately and better than any driver could ever. Why would anyone be surprised at how good over-engineered transmissions have become. Technology is a steep curve these days. Pretty soon there will be electric cars driving themselves in open traffic....CRAZY TALK RIGHT?? But who asked for perfect gear shifting in cars? A lot of the new breed of Porsche buyer it seems because they'll be selling 200K Pcars a year soon. We drive these old buckets because they are just at the limit of modern, but not too modern. It still has some of the feed back of the older Porsches without the oil leak of the day on your drive way or car parts going up in cost like a Miami Beach ocean view condos. Eventually we'll all be driving dual clutch automatic transmissions what's the rush.... let depreciation do its thing.

[Perfectlap]

Originally Posted by tomonomics

Having said that, you're still using two hands to control the gears, and one of those hands does not need to leave the steering wheel when shifting in a turn. But that left leg, man....it's just sitting there on the dead pedal!!!

I always wanted a manual transmission with a paddle on the left side of the steering wheel to act as the clutch pedal instead instead of having it on the floor. Keep the gated shifter as is.

[Porsche9]

I've driven several PDKs and owned a DSG in a GTI. The PDK is superior to the DSG but for the price difference I expect that. The DSG is still pretty damn good and way better then any traditional automatic that I have driven. When shoping the GTI I wanted a stick but liked the DSG enough from the test drive that I went for it just to give it a try. After I got over the novelty I really wished I had got the stick. I just got bored with the DSG due to the lack of engagement.

My transmission choices are in this order:

1. Stick shift
2. Dual clutch
3. Traditional automatic
4. CVT

[Topless]

Porsche should always offer a choice and let their customers decide. A PDK is very good but clearly not for everyone. Let freedom ring!