I don't have my own children in the house as they are grown up and moved out. However I do have grandchildren that visit often. Like you I have a gun safe but that is in the basement so not much use in a surprise attack. So I purchased an electronic pistol vault which I mounted on the floor in our master bedroom closet. Nothing is a perfect solution but this works for the wife and I. Two revolvers reside inside loaded and ready to go. In 5 seconds I can be armed. Our three dogs plus an alarm system are the first + second line of defense with firearms being third if needed. I hope I never have to use them but I pity the stupid thief/thug/street scum that try my house to feed their way of life !

Sorry to hear Tim. Two words...German Shepard. Big ass ears and a guttural growl send the low-life's to a place less difficult. Heal quickly...

Oh, we have an attack dog.

http://i868.photobucket.com/albums/a...ps1cycjtlr.jpg

Here is is asleep under his blankie as dude stole our stuff.

http://i868.photobucket.com/albums/a...pswt9y6awu.jpg

View from where I was. Dude was at the end of the counter on the right.

http://i868.photobucket.com/albums/a...psa7pmr9ez.jpg

Ugh.... So sorry Tim. Bad stuff and the outcome could have been much better. But, it could have been much worst too. Hang tough and heal quickly.

Ha. If only. Police are trained to end the threat if deadly force arises. That doesn't mean shooting until someone's dead, but there are no warning shots and no shots to the knee cap. Liability for cops doesn't end if the perp is dead, far from it. Have you seen the news lately? It's entirely damned if you do and damned if you don't.

It's a crappy messed up world we live in, but in spite of the greedy dirt bag oriented society we exist in, if someone places your life in jeopardy then you better be prepared to take theirs to protect yours. Deal with the bs liability later. I'd rather be tried by 12 than carried by 6.

My wife's dad was a San Diego cop and parole officer. She is adamant about keeping the doors locked any time we are not alert and aware of what is in our home.
The guns are all in a safe now, since my grand-kids are old enough be curious.
As I relax in my recliner I always have something within arms reach that I can toss at an intruder:
http://986forum.com/forums/uploads01...1457218705.jpg

Take care Tim, and heal well.

Your statement is incorrect on several levels, and the police don't shot to kill. If the use of deadly force is warranted police shoot with the understanding that their actions may result in death. They don't shot to kill.

If somebody steals something, let him steal. There is no cause to risk your life or health for an iPad or Macbook. Things can be replaced. Lives not.

Also if you shoot him or seriously injure him (for example he's paralyzed for the rest of his life) that is no solution. Over here in Germany we're not allowed to have weapons without a firearms licence. And i think that is good.

Wish you a fast recovery.

Just my 2 cents
Markus

Let him steal away...that's what insurance is for. ;)

That is crazy and very ballsy that somebody came into your house like that. Glad to hear your still here to tell the story.. When I moved out here to Arizona a couple years ago I couldn't beleave how its still the wild west according to the gun laws. I mean damn near anybody can carry a gun here . My family and I like to camp and I'm always packing my side arm when we are camping in the desert. A lot of crazy sh$% goes on out in the desert.

Look at your friends closely
 

Usually a robbery like this came from the inside, not one of your friends actually did it....but supplied information. I am very careful about who I let into my home and what I tell people I have.

Dwight

Let’s imagine you did have a gun handy and chased him, but he was faster and getting away, so you shot him at 30 feet and killed him.

What would the law be? He wasn’t presenting a threat. You shot him in the back for a laptop.

I think the idea here is if the gun was handy, the full Metal Jacket would do the chasing, he wouldnt have to go after him. If you shoot someone in the back running away from you outside your home that is murder unless you can articulate that you were in fear for your life in that scenario. Hard sell. If you shoot someone who is burglarizing your home, that is called home defense. Of course the media usually only cares if there's a race issue to push.

Timco!! WTH?

Hope you will get better soon! Could have been worse, just stuff.

Cathrin says hi!

In Texas that's hot pursuit and you have a defense. And it's not for a laptop, which is an incredibly short sighted viewpoint. It's for being a thief, and that is a career criminal. He is presenting a threat to your property and you have every right (in Texas) to resolve that threat with deadly force. Your actions would be reviewed by the DA because it is against the penal code to discharge a firearm in the city limits (assuming a city) and against the penal code to use deadly force. You literally have to plead guilty to those, and then present your defense (resolving the threat) which happily is supported by Texas law.

Glad you didn't kill anybody Timco, though you would be justified. No legal entanglements and no dead guy to think about. Hope the knee heals up quickly, and you might consider getting a doggy friend for you (semi worthless) dog. Wishing you the best!

I guess maybe its just my perception then, plus if police decide to shoot, they will likely hit what they are aiming for and I assume its the upper torso and will keep shooting till the threat is subdued? (Mortally wounded due to good aim=dead?).

We have all seen the 3rd party videos of police shooting perps and the result is nearly always the same for the perp.

Shoot to kill may not be the politically correct terminology, but if an officer draws his weapon its because he intends to shoot and use deadly force and he is usually successful.

I would never run from police or try to resist as it only takes the hint of intent to give sufficient cause for police to draw weapons, and I'm good with that, so those that do try to resist perhaps have a death wish
Anyways, I respect the job police do, feel bad they put themselves in harms way far too often and am glad that they hit what they aim for.

I'm still torn as a citizen on what degree of defense/offense strategy is best as the police cannot protect us in a timely manner and we do have to be prepared to defend our family and home without assistance.

Just a month ago and several weeks after the San Bernardino Terrorist shootings we had an incident at my work with a customer making a bill payment and things did not go well. The angry citizen apparently threatened to get a bomb and return, the security guards had no weapons to deter or repel this person who did actually return, and when the police where called they said their ETA was 2 hours due to another incident they were dealing with.

So ultimately we are all on our own for defense and even terror threats. Sobbering!

The OP is in Utah, which I'm sure has different laws. If I'm not mistaken, every state has different laws around this than Texas!

In most states, once the perp is outside of your home and you shoot them in the back, then you are in some serious legal trouble.

Timco, how is your knee today?

In recent history, there have been a few home invaders shot and killed by a homeowner here, but I am sure none were shot in the back fleeing. You could argue you're stopping future felonies or were temporarily blinded to the law when confronting someone in your home but that would be weak sauce.

What I mean by wish I had a gun is if I had seen him just going through stuff, I would have shot him rightfully out of fear for my safety. We don't have a retreat law so if he's a threat I can stop him without having to flee first. I have held an intruder at gunpoint. If you've ever seen a man beg for his life, it's heavy stuff. He was cringing over waiting to be shot. He begged me not to shoot him. That was 15 years ago.

I've always thought I would do anything to protect my wife, dog, home. This shows me in that moment, I'm willing to risk my life to get that threat out of my house. Honestly, all I could think of was beating or killing him, and with no weapon, I was intent on doing it bare handed. He got that message as fast as he ran. He was the lucky one.

The leg is a major hamstring and calf pull. Knee to top / side of foot. I never left the house today. It's terrible pain. Inside thigh too. My neck and shoulder still hurt from catching the doorway. Bruised. But it's a reminder to lock doors and that I feel like I gave everything I could to protect mine. Not on my watch.

Glad it is not more serious (surgery)! Heal fast!

First of all, congratulations on still having your life. things can be replaced. Considering that this loser came back for your inside stuff I'd say you were visited by an experienced thief who has done this many times. That's actually the good news. Had it been a tweaker and you caught him in the act he might have done something unpredictable.


I guess you didn't have security system with video? I recently installed one of these high def wifi cameras with motion detection recording. I had some repair guys coming in and although the camera was conspicuously placed on the cable box they carried on discussions about my stuff which I heard crystal clear on my phone while sitting on a moving bus. It's the Vimtag on Amazon. But now that you have been confirmed as someone with nice stuff I would get a more robust security system with an alarm that can be programmed to turn itself on at set time. Signs in the window that say 24 hour video surveillance for the foreseeable future are a good thing. Check craigslists and Ebay (search by zip code) for your stuff. maybe the thief is already trying to sell your stuff before he's caught with it. And given how he brazenly walked into a house at night, I wouldn't put it past this guy to come back, unless you got a good look at his face?

As far as shooting an intruder. Even those who have been exonerated of a justifiable homicide have a mountain of legal issues and expenses. Only you can decide if your life is on the line in that split second moment. That requires a level head. As far as running after a thief, I think there are more downsides, you never know if you're out-gunned, who might be waiting for them in a vehicle with more guns.

p.s.
That is a cool dog. Glad he's safe. Also, try acupuncture for the knee.