EPA looking at stopping race car builds

[coreseller]

Howdy Guys,

Long time no post, here is something that some of you may be interested in, The Man is once again looking to screw with us enthusiasts...............

EPA Seeks to Prohibit Conversion of Vehicles into Racecars -- WASHINGTON, Feb. 8, 2016 /PRNewswire/ --

What you can do:

https://www.change.org/p/president-of-the-united-states-prevent-the-epa-from-banning-vehicle-modification?tk=jkQcF2eZaW1_NdbOJQhKyklR2lKvBQo_G9 9YwcP2B80&utm_medium=email&utm_source=signature_receipt&utm_campaign=new_signature

P.S. Timco.........Sorry about your Dad.......Condolences.

[BIGJake111]

Read this story today and instantly thought of all the spec boxsters here on the forum.

[husker boxster]

1st, welcome back coreseller.

2nd, in the grand scheme of things, what difference it this going to make on the whole clean air situation? Why would the govt waste time on this since the impact of enforcing this will be so negligible? But it's low hanging fruit and they can beat their chests and say they've done something.

Stupid tree huggers.

[Nine8Six]

Hey Core, good to see you again

Yup, that law is already passed and regularly enforced here. Passed 3 years ago if I am correct.

Nobody will forget when the cops turned up at our little Tianma circuit to raid all the car modification shops two years ago. Scrutinizing paper work, licenses to modify DOT vehicles (which does not exist lolll), business registrations and all kind of other checks. Hard bully stuff!

Nearly all of the shops who were not in-line with this unpopular regulation had their toolboxes and equipment confiscated, some shop owners given fines (small, but regardless). Bit of an advanced warning if you'd like. Wasn't pretty (cop cars and trucks at the race track)

The only dudes that were left alone was the motorcycle shops for some strange reason

Somehow the sale of performance related car parts and modifications is still strong but rumors are they'll soon crack down of the vendors of those, warning have already been issued to some (I heard, unverified). When exactly that nobody knows so inventories are kinda limited on those here.

They did made it illegal to import car parts however (already enforced). You need to be licensed to import anything car related here. If the customs reads "car parts" on a parcel/import, you bet you'll receive a pick-up card in your front door. The only guy who can get your imported parts out of the post office is Porsche (or Mazda, Honda, GM) lol

But then, this is China. They bloody well do what they want here. Sure will be a tad harder to enforce in the USA

[Nine8Six]

And they also made it illegal for 'privately owned' car repair shops to operate - good luck obtaining a license to open a car repair shop here these days lolll.

Technically, my favorite indy, bodyshop and engine builder are operating illegally :/

[Perfectlap]

Sounds like some used Porsche replacement engines and hard tops are about to get a whole lot cheaper.

Interesting where the Detroit lobby will fall on this. I'm going to take a guess and say that a big part of the road cars that are raced are domestics. The lobbyists for the autos then call some Democrat Senators and ranking house members and remind them how much their domestic parts suppliers profit from guys who consume a lot of consumables and how many jobs and tax revenue would be lost if these parts suppliers are hurt. Race shops that do the conversions are spread all over, blue and red states so their politicians jump in the fray as well. Especially in states where there is a lot of track racing....hint Florida (big swing state prize). Indeed with a big election on the calendar this year where the mid-west will also be crucial, all of the sudden favor-swapping comes into play and the EPA mysteriously changes course and in favor of new taxes on racing activities. Which is what the gubimint is actually after, more money from those who can afford to go racing. But in an election year even settling on new taxes vs. outright banning of racing conversions will be a tough sell. EPA can do what it wants but not without a cost and the party in charge of the EPA will remind them that all the marbles are on the line this year.

Also, when you look back 30 years from now, I think this may mark the beginning of electric vehicle racing. So ask yourself who would profit from those conversions.
Start buying stock in those companies. What is done on the race track can often carry over to road, provided that the cost to manufacture electric motors comes down,
which I see no reason why it wouldn't since its a technology that becomes cheaper over time like any other tech.

[BoxsterLS376]

They can file this right along with banning my guns and shove it up their asses. If someone came to my shop with this BS saying we are going to confiscate tools etc. I'd chase 'em out with my 9mm because all they are doing is STEALING FROM YOU.

I'm only willing to deal with so much government BS and this don't fly.

Locked and loaded.
J

[Nine8Six]

Ding Ding Ding! Well said PL

Certainly nothing to do with the trees. Some countries (China) imports wood/trees by city-size qty (thx Canada) every months and turn those into pencils and baby cradles and export back at 500% profit tag. Half of those profits shared among you know who, the guys who fund these similar EPA dept lolll

I bet these EPA staff stirs their *bux coffee with that FREE wooden stick and toss it away in the bin like nothing ever happened.

Here the crack down and policy making is not much oriented toward 'saving the world' but more on centralizing a pretty healthy industry and policing it as effective as possible (straight forward, loud & clear!). I recognize public security and industry standards and appreciate this but I don't think similar policies elsewhere are designed with a sole intention to protect the environment - although a great argument! Wouldn't be surprised if its far from being that behind closed doors

No further comments

[Perfectlap]

Now that I think on this, it seems strategic. They talk about an outright ban on conversions to leverage their position when what they really want (but aren't disclosing) is to hold race vehicles to the emissions standards of road going vehicles, whether street legal or not. Fearing an outright ban of conversions, all the lobbying groups go along with it or some modification of that. I'm guessing someone at the EPA watches a lot of F1 races and started thinking about what we're doing to here to lower CO2 at race tracks if the F1 guys have jumped into hybrid power. Then that person's EPA boss started thinking of all the revenue that could be brought in with new CO2 racing standards and taxes.

[jb92563]

I'd like to see that bill go through and watch what millions of Nascar and all the other racing leagues do when they arrive at an empty track that says "Canceled by the EPA".

We just need one more big straw to break the camels back and then the whole system of government regulations can be reconsidered by a public that has finally had enough and throws the whole lot out the door.

Evolution and progress (Revolution?) is sometimes a painful and messy business but things have to happen to get to the next level.

I'll bet Trump has the balls to help us out with that.:troll:

[njbray]

I can't believe some of the crap the EPA comes up with these days!
They seem to want to go after the 'easy' targets - just so they can pat each other on the back!
I would like to know the emission figures of what converted race cars produce - must be minuscule!
I once had an argument with a vegan hippy tosser neighbor - she was saying what a silly impractical car my Porsche is. ("a lot of noise and pollution just for 2 seats")
I told her she probably farts more CO than my car produces!

[Perfectlap]

ARS has a completely different take on this. As I suspected it has to do with now imposing emissions requirements on raced cars (a big headache) and not necessarily outright bans on converting road cars to racing cars.


"The Environmental Protection Agency is at the center of another controversy, this time with automotive racers and enthusiasts. At issue is a proposed rule that sounds to some like the EPA wants to ban anyone from turning a road car into a track-only toy or race car.

Last July, the EPA published a lengthy 629-page proposed rule called "Greenhouse Gas Emissions and Fuel Efficiency Standards for Medium- and Heavy-Duty Engines and Vehicles—Phase 2." Buried within the text was an amendment to an existing federal rule that reiterated Clean Air Act policy on road vehicles equipped with emissions controls. According to that rule, owners, operators, aftermarket companies, and service businesses may not tamper with or remove emissions equipment on vehicles so fitted, be they dedicated race cars or not.

The two-month window for public comments on the proposed rule came and went (closing on September 11, 2015) with little notice or fuss. But earlier this week, the Specialty Equipment Manufacturer's Association (SEMA) circulated a press release claiming that the "EPA Seeks to Prohibit Conversion of Vehicles Into Racecars." While this headline correctly assesses the EPA's position, it overstates the notion that anything has changed. Regardless, it inflamed passions in the racing and car enthusiast world in no time.

Grassroots motorsport has undergone something of a resurgence in recent years here in the US thanks to series like the World Racing League, Chumpcar, LeMons, and others. But is the EPA really trying to ban anyone from giving an old BMW a new life as a race car? We don't think so.
The EPA's Laura Allen released the following statement to try to clarify the agency's position: "People may use EPA-certified motor vehicles for competition, but to protect public health from air pollution, the Clean Air Act has—since its inception—specifically prohibited tampering with or defeating the emission control systems on those vehicles. The proposed regulation that SEMA has commented on does not change this long-standing law or approach."

In fact, the new language is about clarifying what may have been a loophole for engines that weren't from road cars. Allen continued: "[We have] simply clarified the distinction between motor vehicles and nonroad vehicles such as dirt bikes and snowmobiles… [which] may, under certain circumstances, be modified for use in competitive events in ways that would otherwise be prohibited by the Clean Air Act. This clarification does not affect EPA’s enforcement authority. It is still illegal to tamper with or defeat the emission control systems of motor vehicles. We are focused primarily on aftermarket manufacturers who sell devices that defeat emission control systems on vehicles used on public roads."

Here are the facts: nothing has meaningfully changed. Yes, other reports stated that if this proposal passes, it will be illegal to tamper with or remove emissions equipment from model-year 2018 and later road-going cars, pickups, and light-duty vehicles, even when converted solely for use on a racetrack. But this is the case now; there's just no federal enforcement. The revised language simply makes it (somewhat) clear that the same regulations apply if you swap a tractor or snowmobile engine into your race car. (The only race car I can think of to have used a snowmobile engine was the Chaparral 2J, which used a two-stroke engine to drive a pair of fans that sucked the car to the ground.)

The crux of the matter is a remaining lack of definition and enforcement. The EPA recognizes the vehicle itself as the target of compliance or noncompliance. Racers and enthusiasts have long considered the vehicle's use as the arbiter of compliance or noncompliance and this seems to make more logical sense. Other laws like those pertaining to road safety equipment like airbags no longer apply when a car turns to the racetrack for good.

Racers remove street-car emissions equipment in track preparation because some emissions controls, especially those on older cars—most often the subject of race car conversions—cannot operate in the stressful environment a racetrack creates. Under those very high temperatures, shock, lateral braking, and acceleration forces, they would likely overheat and could even pose a fire hazard. Some of these racers are even converted to run on alcohol rather than gasoline, popular among some drag racers.

Additionally, we're talking about a rather small-scale problem. There are roughly 28,500 racing-licensed members of the Sports Car Club of America and about 35,000 licensed competitors in the National Hot Rod Association, the two biggest sanctioning bodies in the amateur and semi-pro racing business in America by far. Meanwhile, there are about 253 million vehicles on our roads. Even if every one of those racers had a converted race car—and this would never be a 1:1 license-to-car ratio—it would net a roughly 4,000:1 ratio of road cars used almost every day versus race cars. And race cars are not used every day. They're used only on certain weekends and only during the racing season.

The EPA has made it as clear as it can (which is, sadly, not all that clear) that this effort does not actually target legitimate racers. After all, what would any kind of enforcement strategy look like across well over 1,000 racetracks across the country?

Net-net, racers have little to worry about. But nefarious aftermarket companies might."

[Nine8Six]

Originally Posted by njbray

They seem to want to go after the 'easy' targets.

Can't blame them there, little racy cars and sponsors/organizers sure easier fish to catch and lucky EPAs their owners don't have legal manpower to fight them back. Pay suckers lolll

Like for instance: other solid and legally-backed means of transport - aviation. Remember that Co2 "tax" they introduced a few years ago for those?! Will never happen of course



^ that's me en-route to my monthly meeting at HQ/Japan. Just because I have corporate budget to do so, and also because video conference makes my colleagues look like they are stuck in a fish bowl. No other meaningful reasons other than that really.

1 (One) round trip to Tokyo and I produce the same emission as 100 (hundred) cars races combined. One!

[JayG]

Originally Posted by jb92563

I'll bet Trump has the balls to help us out with that.:troll:

Sorry JB, if you believe the BS that flows from his mouth, I have a bridge to sell you.
He doesn't have a clue how to work in a system that does not bend to his every whim. Just because he can run his company, does not mean he has the skills and temperament to run a government.
A good example is the trumper tantrum he threw when he would not do the last debate that Fox was sponsoring because he was afraid of Megan Kelly and the fact he was going to be forced to actually give some details to his hair brained positions. And Fox is on his side

http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/ad38087bac/donald-trump-art-of-the-deal-movie

[Nine8Six]

Originally Posted by JayG

Funny Or Die Presents Donald Trump's The Art Of The Deal: The Movie from Owen Burke, Fu...

all J.D. you would have never guessed

Speech f n less --- wow :/

[rusty69911]

the real reason Obama has started gun reform haha
but seriously why would they even consider this?
even in Australia where it is so difficult to do wild mods to street cars like you guys in the US do they wouldn't consider this, but the bigger racing classes have all gone to E85 just to be a bit better for the environment LOL

[BIGJake111]

Let the consumer decide to save the world or not.

[jb92563]

Originally Posted by JayG

Sorry JB, if you believe the BS that flows from his mouth, I have a bridge to sell you.
He doesn't have a clue how to work in a system that does not bend to his every whim. Just because he can run his company, does not mean he has the skills and temperament to run a government.
A good example is the trumper tantrum he threw when he would not do the last debate that Fox was sponsoring because he was afraid of Megan Kelly and the fact he was going to be forced to actually give some details to his hair brained positions. And Fox is on his side

Funny Or Die Presents Donald Trump's The Art Of The Deal: The Movie from Owen Burke, Fu...

Actually this election is quite the Pickle, how can one decide who to vote for when the choice is between the devil and a retard.

We are becoming an Idiocracy instead of a Democracy.

[JayG]

Originally Posted by jb92563

Actually this election is quite the Pickle, how can one decide who to vote for when the choice is between the devil and a retard.

We are becoming an Idiocracy instead of a Democracy.

Unfortunately that is sad but true

[Nine8Six]

Originally Posted by jb92563

Actually this election is quite the Pickle, how can one decide who to vote for when the choice is between the devil and a retard.

I'll make it easy for you. Devil & retard means pretty much the same in the political ranking of things. In fact you need a little bit of both (not too much) to succeed as a politician in a democratic system. That said, regardless of who you chose, the end results will be pretty much the same.

Reality is you have far better chance to have the top guy representing "you", instead of himself(e.g devil), if you chose the retard.

Hard choice, very hard. Wouldn't want to be American who needs to vote soon! Like yourself I also wouldn't know what to do.

Luck (and screw eating little fish policies, these tactics belongs to Asian political systems lolll hope you reading this EPA)