981 the new 986 ?
 

Looking on Autotrader and other sites i am very surprised to see the large amount of 981 cars for sale . I have been on the lookout for a well optioned 987 mk2 S but they are rare birds compared to the 981 cars and the prices are still way up on them . It seems the 981 cars are dropping in price much more quickly than i would have thought . In another year or so you will base cars drop well below 40k . Will the 981 become the new 986 ?

981 the new 986 ?
 

I bet people are just driving them a lot, what's the usual mileage? Not to mention I think there is a certain type of Porsche buyer that buys them new and sells them 2 years later to upgrade regardless of a new model available or not. Then people buy these low mileage practically new used cars and keep them for several years.

Even when looking at 986 car fax reports it seems that the first owners always have the cars sold by 2004 and then the second owner usually kept the car all the way to current or 2012 or so.

Point being I think most Porsche models go on sale a year or two after production then not again until maintenance is creeping up, most 987 cars are likely in this second extended ownership right now not to mention what I would assume we're slow sells during the recession recovery.

I'm hoping the 991 follows suit of the 996. I want to find a 50k miler for between 30 and 35k in a few years.

Any German car sold in the tens of thousands per year for many years will eventually become a $10-$15K car. The jury is still on the 981 being a very durable car. If experience is worth anything, the first 70K miles of my second gen powered 986 proved to be nearly bullet proof. That being said, if you can swing it, a CPO 981 S with an extended factory warranty is the way to go. Then sell the car before the warranty expires and repeat the process of squandering your finite retirement investments!

not sure about other region but northeast had many many 24 or 30 month lease deals....these are probably what you're seeing.

Supply and demand... the 987.2 hit the mkt smack in the financial crisis. Sales during those yrs dropped to 10% of 2008 numbers (Cayman sales went from 16K to 1600 / yr). Add to it the 9a1 engine in the 987.2 and you have a desirable car in very low volume, so they'll hold their value. The 981 hit the mkt about the time the economy started to return, so sales are much higher. More 981s (lower S) to choose from, lower value. I've been amazed at the number of '14 Caymans on ebay. Seems like at least 1/3 of all Caymans listed are '14s.

I like the 981 Boxster but still haven't warmed up to the 981 Cayman.

A 987 mk2 with sports chono and PDK would be the most desirable to me but if the 981 heads down the slope it is going they will be hard to overlook as a second hand car buyer. Even if it is a base model . With PDK and sports chrono of course .

996 dropped like a rock because of the headlights. They're selling for less than 987's right now. I don't think the 997 or 991 is going to drop as fast because they look much more modern than the 996.

I've even seen 996 turbos for under 40k :eek:

That would be a sweet ride! If you can get past the old looking headlights... :rolleyes:

That's funny because the 996 was a progression (modern) while the 997 was regression (classic) to the original VW'esque round headlight. No question that the high fenders and round lights are the preference for many if not most, but the 996 is not cheap because of its looks. It's cheap because they sold so many of them. When the last round headlight 993 rolled off the assembly line Porsche could only muster ~1,600 sales in all of North America (!!!). That's just mind-boggling if you consider that was in the midst of the greatest bull market in anyone's life time. High rollers were buying two of everything except Carreras. The 996 shows up and sales literally blow the roof off the factory. The era of the mass produced Porsche had begun and ironically, mass produced Porsches simply hold no value no matter what they look like, modern or classic. The exception are those with limited production engines like the GT3/2. Put it this way, had the 996 been exactly like the 993 on the outside but with a water-cooled engine inside, it would still be selling cheap. And had that been the case I'm not so sure that 993 resale was be nearly what it is today because many first time buyers are simply after the look which would not be so limited in the market had the 993 gone into mass production with a water-cooled engine. But one has to ask would a 993 air-cooled or water-cooled sold as well as the 996's number in the early 2000's? I think its doubtful, beyond the niche traditionalist (the same ones pumping of air-cooled prices today) the broader market wanted something all new with a modern flair like the Boxster Concept car and the simultaneously developed 996. Either way today there simply are not enough first time buyers for used, out-of-warranty Porsches that require overpriced parts and specialized labor to soak up all that supply of a very successful 996 production run. Once they hear about "routine" $4k Clutch/IMS/RMS quotes they run :chicken:

P.S.
I'll take the fried egg headlights over round lights all day long. I just wish Porsche would have combined both fried egg headlights and high bulging fenders like on the GT1 LMP. That would have been a very exotic looking Carrera. One you could park next to any McLaren or Ferrari.

http://allcarcentral.com/porsche/Por..._Seca_2009.jpg

But then wouldn't this happen?

http://youtu.be/_ldoGjqijCw

(You hit the nail on the head about simply over supply for a used high cost sports car, it has nothing to do with looks. If it's anything specific other than a culmination of the type of car it is and supply then it's the IMS hysteria.)

idk, most agree, it's the ugly non-traditional headlights. Porsche has had round and oval headlights forever, the fried egg was not popular. The well documented IMS problems didn't help things.

Here

https://www.reddit.com/r/Porsche/comments/2bihx3/why_does_no_one_like_the_996/

I bought a 987 for almost triple the price of a 986 because I didn't like that the 986 headlights looked so old and I was trying to avoid most IMS issues.

The 2006 987 has IMS issues does it not? They didn't do away with it until mid 2009...

not popular? fried eggs by number of vehicles sold vs. round lights sold, was the most popular headlight in the history of Porsche up the point that they went back to round lights. When you're talking about the niche enthusiast crowd that insist on round headlights you're talking about a sliver of a sliver of Porsche ownership since the company's renaissance. Porsche wouldn't be selling 200K cars today from the time they barely sold 1,600 911's in North America if it were up to those purists. Actually if were up to them there might not even have been a Porsche left standing today.

As far as the IMS thing, that's a situation where people repeating misinformation is exponentially worse than the problem itself. Or YouTube bloggers and writers like Dutch Mandel who talk of m96 IMS issues to newbies without even a mention that for at least 6 years there's been a simple "day in the shop" fix that doesn't require even pulling the engine or simply an add on item when you do your clutch. According to our resident engine experts, the m97 engine in 987.1's is simply a glorified version of the 986 engine since 2000.

A failed IMS on m97 engine is very rare. They went Rambo on the bearing and put in a non-replaceable unit that's sturdy. But they have failed on 987.1 Boxsters and Caymans.

Rare at this time....but who knows what they will be like once they start getting some mileage on them. A few more years will tell us a lot. Only sure thing is yes, go with a 2009+ (987.2) to avoid the IMS altogether.

Hey racing cars do crazy things on racing tracks. But the fried egg lights GT1 LMP was the last Porsche to win the overall at the 24 Hours of Le Mans for nearly 16 years until the hybrid 919 (also without round lights) this year. For homologation they did sell the GT1 as a "911" for street use, but there was nothing really Carrera about it other than the 993 front end chassis. It was a mid-mounted water pumper.

[QUOTE=986_inquiry;465450]idk, most agree, it's the ugly non-traditional headlights. Porsche has had round and oval headlights forever, the fried egg was not popular. The well documented IMS problems didn't help things.

Not sure where you are getting 'most agree'. As PL said - a sliver of a sliver. Frankly, I think the headlights look great, especially if they are de-ambered and nice and clear. They look great and distinctive.

I do recognize now though that the 987's lights do look more modern...but that's because they are. Doesn't make the classic 986 lights any less attractive. Eventually the 987 lights might look old next to whatever comes next.

I think those Rambo bearings will outlast most of m97 engines. While any sealed bearing inside an engine without a direct oil feed does not address the issue of oil starvation and contamination, if you make the bearing tough enough it will stay together long enough for something else to go fist that takes down the engine.

Honestly 987.1 lights look very dated particularly when matched with some wheel options.

Litronics or a projector upgrade 986 can pass as a new design, and most definitely look more modern than something you'd find on most anything else.

What I find odd is that Porsche is moving away once again from round lights, everything is going for a carrera gt shape with a 4 light rectangle emphasis.

The 981 particularly with the spyder or gt4 nose looks exceptionally more square than typical Porsche design language, yet the rear still holds true.

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/09...910442bac5.jpg

I think the 981 Boxster/Coxster is going to make everything before it look dated.

http://img.over-blog-kiwi.com/1/21/84/25/20150403/ob_5a4b63_porsche-boxster-spyder-ar.jpg

Some Valid points...
 

I think something that has not been mentioned is that the market for used cars and used sports cars in general is not what it used to be. People are much more likely to buy a SUV or truck over a sports car than they would have in years past especially if they can get a newer vehicle for the same price of the older used sports car. Sports cars are just not as desirable to today's buyers and the younger generation as they were in years past...people see success as an Escalade rolling on 26" wheels with 8 TV screens in it. Cars are easily replaceable appliances nowadays and many are okay with that.

^ That's so true. Convertible sports cars used to be "chick cars" 20 years ago... as in the the car every young woman dreamed of. Now young women dream about Range Rovers and Cayennes.

In Houston, we spend 15% more on average for cars than other big cities in America according to sales report that came out a while back. No idea why!

I work in the posh Galleria area and it's all very expensive German coupes and sedans down here. What kills me is the 20-35 year old clerical ladies in my building who make $60k a year (max, some a lot lower according to my buddy in management at their company) at an oil company driving a new 5 series BMW (or a German SUV) on a 3 year lease, wearing $500 high heels and carrying a $1000 handbag. She looks rich and all she has is debt. But she looks rich to her friends and co-workers. It's the short-sighted stupidity of youth that isn't easily shaken off as people get older.

Conversely, the men and women in my building who drive Pcars (there's at least a dozen) do not seems to be posers. A few fellow Pcar drivers are my friends and they have a robust balance sheets and they are not pissing away their retirement to look rich. They do not turn over vehicles every couple of years either like the rich posers.

Our entire society is moving from ownership to renting personal use items as if they were a temporary service. Software is now sold as subscription based through the cloud. Cell phone "purchases" are now paid by the month so they can be upgraded frequently. We pay for TV reception. Call me an old fart, but all I see is a culture determined to live for today with few avoiding the trap of the ongoing monthly payment for most everything.

Totally agree!
Doesn't matter anymore "who" you are, but rather "what" you are :barf:

sounds like a bunch of fake ass people i wouldn't bother to associate with .

looks like these people are the reason for all the used 981s

I have to agree with 986i...with the original halogen amber headlights, they are not attractive. My favorite comment from a buddy of mine was, "damn! I love this car! But, the headlights make it look like a cross-eyed, unloved stepchild", haha :)

Add some nice projectors, however...it completely transforms! :D
The way they follow the curves is just elegant! Look at the passenger side headlight in this pic. The curve of the fender is just sexy!

http://i875.photobucket.com/albums/a...7C2F1B6D_1.jpg

AHNC...(All hat no cattle).

The interesting thing to me about your statement here is that the one thing they ought to be renting...namely their residence, in order to to have an adequate portion of their income left over each month to secure retirement income, is often the only debt they're serving towards eventual ownership 30 years later. The rationale for this is often the belief that its a great investment...but only if you are oblivious to all the other investments that could have been made with the delta between the rent these AHNC's were paying and the full costs of carrying a home for the lender. See the chart below where the bar for house prices fall..to the right...way right.
And since the only investment the average home owner makes is their home, that red bar becomes easy to understand.
Me personally, I'm leaning hard on the bars on the extreme left while avoiding any interest carrying debt...be it credit card, auto or mortgage.

Here in the Phoenix area the city of Scottsdale are full of these type of people and is the primary reason I refuse to live there. They make monthly payments so they can think they are better then you. I was with a few of the Scottsdale folks the other week and the topic of car payments came up and what they were paying is more then I pay in principle, interest, insurance and taxes on a rental property I have. They heard that and there was silence and dumbfounded looks. I guess they realized who had made the better decision.

I love people that rent! I agree in many cases a house to live in is not a very good investment. But owning rentals if done right is very lucrative. Like almost any investment it's all about what you pay for it. While others were fearful to by houses it was a great time to buy them and rent. I purchased a few houses at the deeps of the housing market just on the basis of the immediate ROI, rents versus carrying cost figuring that appreciation may or may not come. Having said that I also invest heavily to the left of the table too. Here too wise timing of your investment can make a huge difference. Energy/oil right now is likely to fall in the category of wise time to invest in the near future.

I picked up a distressed income property during the recent housing collapse (there will be other meltdowns...such is the nature of the securitization chain) but it has not come close to matching the performance of the left side of the table, particularly in IT in the same period of time. I've come to the conclusion that between hitching your car to the tail of U.S. corporate wealth and property whether income or primary residence, it's no contest for me. Corporations always finish first and more so going forward.

I can't complain. The properties I picked up in 2010 and 2011 have doubled in value and having only put down 10% that equals a 1000% capital gain in addition to the earnings from rent. Phoenix saw a big time over correction in real estate with values bottoming out in 2011 that helped and many big corporations took advantage of (Blackstone being one of them). In the same time "corporate" returns have done very well but none that I own have exceed this. Between careful investing and some luck the average Joe can do well. Certainly better to put your money to work then continuing to work for money at those corporations just to meet the monthly payments for things that make you look rich. That is why I drive a paid for 13 year old Boxster and a 8 year old Mini. I enjoy them as much as all of the bigger buck cars I've owned without the big purchase costs and killer depreciation. I look forward to purchasing a highly depreciated well cared for low milage 981S.