Am I Crazy or is the Boxster More than Enough
 

I saw a 911 go by today and although it was nice, I like my boxster just as much. Now I am one person who bought the car for overall styling (I think they look similar) and the overall driving experience (good overall handling, drop top, nice sound, nice interior, etc). I know that the performance of the 911 is better (my father has a AWD Carerra convertible) but I would never part with the additional funds for an experience that is so similar. Do many people who own a boxster go up the line to a 911?

Well, you are kinda crazy...but not because of your views on the 911.

I have zero interest in 911s...they're not particularly good looking (remind me of the shape of a cockroach - particularly the convertibles), and that's a dumb-ass place to put the engine. Even in 1948 that must have seemed like a bad idea, I'm surprised no one said "hold up there Ferdinand....let's rethink this one".

Bottom line, for 911 money (a wide range) I can think of several other cars I'd purchase.

...but that's just me.

That's me. 911's do nothing for me stylistically or logically. If I was going to spend $80,000 on a sports car, I'd be looking elsewhere.

part of the appeal of the 911 is it's heritage and character! how many other cars have retained so much of their original design? Furthermore, the fact that the modern 911 (although vastly different mechanically) is so reminiscent of the original car, speaks volumes of the engineering and design vision of Porsche in the beginning.

the boxster is certainly a strong and viable younger brother to the 911 :matchup: and I say that as a former scrutinizer of the box (currently a little tentative again as I deal with this vibration BS), but the 911 is just something different and special. as i've stated in previous threads (again, depending on how my new issue plays out), it's my intent to keep the box (the nostalgia of first ownership - virgin porsche, etc) and drive it to the dealership when I pick up my new 911.

prior to buying the 987 i looked at several late 90, early 2000 911's more or less to have the advantage of the rear seats so that the car could truly be a weekend get away car for the entire fam - but the fear of mechanical issues and limited warranty was too daunting at this stage for me.

I never wanted a 911. They never did it for me. IMHO, any car aspiring to be the ultimate in performance has to have a mid-engine design. It's the 911's biggest drawback.

As far as the Boxster "being enough", I think that this car has limits so high that to get near them on the street is really irresponsible. If you want more straight-line speed, I guess I can understand that but handling is what gets me going and this car is so fast through corners you could easily do a lot of damage to persons and property driving it at the limit on the street.

In that respect, it's enough.

"part of the appeal of the 911 is it's heritage and character! how many other cars have retained so much of their original design? "

But if that original design was seriously flawed to begin with, why not scrap it? To perpetuate that flaw, model after model and apply electronic band-aids to make it viable, strikes me as obstinance. I don't consider the increased possibility of coming ass-out from a high speed turn due to quirky engine placement to be character.

Porsche holding down Cayman performance so it doesn't beat the 911 is a pretty obvious corporate admission that the 911 design doesn't make much sense. Put a rock in a sock. Twirl it around your head a few times then let'er fly. There's your 911. Now throw a boomerang...there's the Boxster.

I have to agree here. There is just something about the convertible 911 that just looks off on the 997 and 996 models, especially with the top up. I guess the side view just isn't that impressive looking, maybe it is because there is no catchy looking air vents. The only real reason I would get a 911 is if I still wanted a Porsche and I need more then 2 people in the car with me, so I guess a little one in the back seat.

Another thing I have noticed is that a lot of the people I see driving 911's are older gentlemen who drive the speed limit in the slow lane with the windows rolled up and the AC on. It never looks like they are having much fun in it. Never once have I seen a 911 pass me in any car I have driven. I don't know about you guys but I drive the hell out of my 987 with the stereo blasting and the rpm's up.:cheers:

You hit my point exactly, this is more than enough performance and everything else. What more could I want especially since I don't spend time on the track.

I agree and $80k is starting. My fathers was around $120k (with tax). I live in Pittsburgh so there is no way I am going to be able to drive this thing every day. I would much rather have a luxury sedan for those days that are rainy, cold or snowy and a boxster for the nice days.

this is what usually distinguishes a sports car driver from a guy who just reads about them (or just looks at the pictures!) in magazines.

Roadsters are Roadsters

Coupes are Coupes

They serve different purposes.

A guy/gal who buys a Boxster wants two seats and purpose built top down fun without compromising performance. He'll consider a BMW Z4, Honda S2000 and AMG SLK.

A guy/gal who wants a non-turbo/gt2/gt3 911 probably needs a back seat and has kids and is probably older. He'll consider an Audi S4, BMW M3 or one of those Jaguars.

Whenver I hear someone say "Boxster nice but no 911" I know I'm talking to a guy who probably has never taken a trip around a track or autocross and the discussion will turn to styling vs. performance.
p.s.
On Styling I'll give the edge to the 2002-2004 911 over the Boxster.
The most beautiful 911 yet, in my opinion (would never be confused with a VW)
But good luck ever convincing me to give up a mid engine car for a rear engine one.

If Porsche made a mid engine AWD(with ZERO understeer) 911 I would never want another car. Well maybe I'd keep the Boxster for sunny days :D

I've had a 911, and did not really realize that I'd been Boxstered until I calculated that I could afford to buy either. And there was no doubt in my mind I had to have a Box. Perfectlap hit a chord, but it isn't just the track aspect for me. The Boxster is a modern, mid-engined Speedster, and the spirit of the car is what I love.

Every bit of Porsche history that is in the 911/964/993/996/997 is also in the 986/7. Some Boxster owners might be posers and entry-level buyers waiting for "The Real Thing." But I think most of us know that the Boxster is more fun and the spiritual successor to the original mid-engined Porsche.

The 911 is a fine car, even if you don't need a 2+2. Just give me a Boxster. :cheers:

I have to whole heartily disagree. The 911 is a super car, and I would gladly trade in my Boxster for one if cash were to permit. They are better looking, faster, and all around better sports car than the boxster is. While the mid engine rear drive layout is superior, you just can't argue with 415hp from a NA rear engine rear drive car. The 911 GT3 is a super piece of machinery and purpose built for one thing. It's really hard to beat at any price point unless your into super cars which nobody really can afford.

I may afford a GT3 one day, I will not afford a Lambo or Enzo one day and they are not that much faster to justify 4x the price (or more).

I only have a Boxster because I can't afford a 911. If a 911 were the same price as a Boxster would any of us own one?

ummm yeah.

I test drove Several 996's before buying my BoxsterS. Actually I didn't even consider a Boxster. I figured if I'm buying a Porsche it HAS to be a coupe.
My plan was to get a second hand S2000(track/autocross) and a 911S for daily driving. I wasn't comfortable with the idea of putting an expensive car on the track, especially a rear engine one.

Then I drove my 986S and no way was I going to pass it up.

If the 996 911 were a better car then 986 would have a 3.6 engine in it by now.
CaymanS with tall 1st gear just slow it down? :p

I think you get the picture.

Porsche wants people to think that the Boxster/S is a step down so that you'll buy up to a 911 some day. Keeps them in business, And some people actually "buy" that.

So yeah I could have easily gone for the 911 but
I'm A ROADSTER GUY 'TIL I DIE!

p.s.
I do plan on making my 'practical' car a 996 C4S but it will NOT replace my BoxsterS.

p.s.s.
I don't think anyone is arguing that a $100K GT3 isn't a better sports car than a $50K Boxster. We're are talking about more run of the mill 911's that aren't unpractical daily drivers that are dangerous in the rain when the alignment is off like the GT3.

Why haven't they shoe-horned the new Cayenne Turbo S (520hp?) into the 911? That would be a monster!

By the way, I love all Porsche products. I wish Porsche would start making airplanes....yeah baby yeah!

Question: Is the wind in the cockpit of a 911 cabrio comparable to a Boxster? Didn't know if the aerodynamics of the 911 kept the cockpit calm without a wind deflector.

top down in 911 cabrio, though an exhilarating experience, is like being in a wind tunnel - a fun wind tunnel, mind you!

For me, the decision was to make a step up from my prior BMW M roadster. I had always considered the Boxster S a step up to begin with. I considered a 2000 911 or even a 99, but for the money the Boxster S won hands down. I couldnt really afford the 911 Cab, nor was I totally in love with the looks of the car. I definately prefer the Boxster S styling to the 911 Cab. Having had 2 prior convertibles, I knew that I would be much happier in the Boxster S than a stripped vanilla 911 coupe.
So far so good!! My 1 year Boxster anniversary is in September!

Hi,

Well, there was the Porsche PFM in the late '80's. Full of promise, it was an utter disaster for Porsche and for Mooney. Plagued by a variety of issues, both mechanical/design as well as administrative, not the least of which was the simultaneous battle for control of the Porsche Empire by the Porsche and Piesch families. Porsche shut down all aviation development since that day.

It failed as an initial offering and no further development was pursued by either Porsche or Mooney who switched their classic design over to a Lycoming 6-Cyl. powerplant the following model year.

I've flown the Mooney 4-cyl. extensively and a bigger squirrel cage would be ideal, but the poor cowling design and stretched fuselage of the PFM proved to be the wrong combination or at least an underdeveloped one. Love to try the Lycoming 6 sometime though...

Happy Motoring!... Jim'99

I remember seeing one of those years ago. I would love to see Porsche follow in the footsteps of the HondaJet...that would be a sweet looking airplane. A Burt Rutan and Porsche project would be awesome....

Hi,

I dunno... while Burt Rutan and his designs appear radical to most of us, to him it's all about practicality. He may be too conventional to work with Porsche or vice-versa. I mean, he lives in a Pyramid with 3 cats and drives a Dodge Mini-Van. I personally think he secretly suffers from Post-Traumatic Stress Syndrome (Vietnam era F-100 USAF Pilot) and his design work is his therapy...

Happy Motoring!... Jim'99

See, here's the problem--some of you like the way the 911 looks, while others don't.

Money aside, I would still choose a Boxster S over a 911, simply because I think 911's are ugly.

BUT, for $80,000 I'd be looking outside of Porsche.

BUT, for $80,000 I'd be looking outside of Porsche.

I wish Honda would hurry up and finish development on the next NSX. That was a pretty bad-ass automobile back in the day. Kind of like the Carrera GT of the 90s...only, more practical as a daily driver.

You can love the Boxster and still love and own a 911 without there being any contradiction.

I've owned a couple 911's including the car nicknamed the Widow Maker (930) as well as Corvettes and various sport sedans and no matter what I'm in I always find myself drawn back to the 911. Driven properly the experience is so visceral and rewarding that it's impossible to put into words.

In the $80K range (and there are hundreds of brand new $80K 911's siting in dealer's stock) you really only have a few competitors. Corvette Z-06 and Viper come to mind and while they have great numbers I think you'll find the daily drive ability of the Vette and Viper to be far less than the 911. In that price range (under $100K) there really isn't any other car that can give you both the luxury and performance of a 911.

In my perfect world my garage would have my Boxster S, a 996/997 turbo or GT3, a Cayenne Turbo and a late 70's 911SC track car. I have no desire at this point in my life to waste my hard earned money on pretenders........

I am a big fan of the 911 C2.. Sweet car.

For the money, the ZO6 is simply going to eat the 911 alive and still be civilized to drive everyday.

Gets 29 MPG on the highway too!

C'mon, Porsche, get cracking!

Yep, every decade or so Chevy has to one up Porsche.

Of course what would happen if you put the new GT3 or Turbo up against the Z-06. Drop a stock C6 on the track against a stock 997 and see what happens. The Z-06 is the pinnacle of Vette development, you have to step up to the GT3 if you want a comparable Porsche.

Cost is always going to be miles apart, it has been since the beginning. Then again one manufacturer has one foot in bankruptcy court and the other is the most successfully independent car builder in the world.

Hi,

I respect your opinion, but glancing at your signature and it's probably fair to say you possess a fairly pronounced bias. Nothing wrong with that. But, how many other types of cars have you been intimate with? There're lots of great cars out there with lots of different feels to them, neither right or wrong, Greater or Lesser, just different.

In my Perfect Garage I'd have, in addition to my Boxster, an '06 Z06, a '58 Speedster, a '66 Austin-Healey 3000 MkIII, a '69 Lotus Elan SE, a '68 Fiat Dino Spyder, a '99 Dodge Viper GTS, a '72 Lamborghini Miura SV, and as my Track Car either a '07 Lotus Exige or an '86 Toyota MR2 SC - Variety is the Spice of Life...

Happy Motoring!... Jim'99

Hi,

Are you kidding me? 10 years ago their positions were reversed with Porsche not being able to borrow a dime on a street corner. Only the Cayenne, an SUV, (and not the progeny of any Race Heritage by any stretch) pulled them back from the abyss. If they had relied on the 911 and Boxster to do that, they's have gone the way of the Dodo and been relegated to the pages of Nostalgia and History Books.

Chevy's (GM) problem stems mainly from their Union Benefit and Retirement obligations, not from Unit sales - they're even obligated to pick up the Tab on Viagra for the ED crowd, which explains why the Steering Wheels on Chevys are pushed so far forward.

Chevy has been producing the Corvette for nearly as many years as Porsche has been building cars, who has racked up more sales?

The Porsche Uber Alles Crowd needs to come to grips with the fact that theirs isn't the only great car made and that admitting so will not have the Porsche Gestapo deporting you in the middle of the night !...

Happy Motoring!... Jim'99

SD987 is really reading my mind in this thread. I'm waiting for the next NSX, or maybe the Nissan GT-R...

Hi,

I had the opportunity to House Sit for a '96 NSX which the owner wanted driven regularly while he was away on assignment to the Middle East for a year.

In that time, at his instruction, I put 3k+ mi. on the Car. My observations: The Car is a nice package on par, but certainly not greater than the Boxster Base. All the power came on waay too high in the Power Band - not until the VTEC did it's thing could you distinguish it from any Honda Civic. From 8 of 9 angles, it looked like any other Acura. It was lacking in any kind of Soul - it didn't elicit any feelings of driving something challenging or special. For me, it defined Automotive Boredom...

Happy Motoring!... Jim'99

That car was developed extensively by Ayrton Senna during his McLaren/Honda days....for the track! What Honda did to it for daily knock around use was an aberration.

100% agreement, which is why I didn't buy one. :) I hope the next one is a different beast.

you gould get an Elise AND a 325.

my goal is to drive the Elise before June - I intended to test it before i got the box, but never got around to it. good thing, cuz i probably would have been so intoxicated with it that it would have come home with me. in the end, sacrificing the interior comforts would have worn on me, i'm sure, unless people just got out of my way on the freeway and i had a 'no speed limit pass'

i had a 9 minute video clip of some guy in europe at an autocross in an elise screaming past 911's and crotchrockets - just wicked :troll: i'll try to find it again and post it.

I certainly would. All you're doing is making the distinction between not fast enough and fast enough. We all know that the Boxster has the potential to be the better car. If the a hypothetical Boxster had the same wheel/tire package and the same drivetrain as a hypothetical 911, the Boxster would be the better car.

Porsche is crippling the Boxster in order keep the 911 alive.

I'd rather see it die personally.

Jim, I've owned over 30 cars in my lifetime with the majority of them sport or sport oriented. I've owned Corvettes, Mustangs, Vipers, BMW's, Volvo's and driven Ferrari's, Mazeratti's, Lamborghini's, Lotus' and Jag's. And yes, I have a Porsche bias, not because I haven't had access or been intimate with other cars but because after driving these other cars I feel "at home" in my Porsche's.

Also, my ideal garage is a listing of cars that I can or will be able afford in the foreseeable future. It isn't a list of "dream" cars that without hitting the lottery I have no chance of acquiring. I appreciate your list and they are fine examples of classics but those are not cars the I would spend my limited resources on. That doesn't make them any less desirable.

Did someone get up on the wrong side of the bed this morning? Jim, you need to chill.

BTW, the Boxster is the car that saved Porsche. It's the car that allowed them to build the Cayenne which, along with the Panamerica will take Porsche into the next decade and beyond. They are the vehicles that will allow Porsche to continue to build cars like the Boxster, 911 and now the Cayman.

To expect Porsche to stay the same is wishful thinking, they have to change to grow and they have to grow to survive.

Oh, and if you don't think that Porsche's race engineers had anything to do with the design of the Cayenne your sadly mistaken. A Racing heritage is why Porsche's SUV is the fastest and one of the most capable SUV's on the planet.

Very True I believe a few years back the Cayenne Turbo lapped the N-Ring in the same time as the 986S.
I'd like to see someone do that in an Escalade!

I just got my MT today and it has a comparison with
720 HP Accufab Ford GT ($172,862) 3.8s (0-60), 11.3s (1/4mi)
1100 HP Hennessey Viper ($187,710) 4.3s (0-60), 11.7s (1/4mi)
1000 HP Lingenfelter Corvette ($225,860) 4.3s (0-60), 11.9s (1/4mi)
840 HP Mustange GT ($69,995) 4.1s (0-60), 12.0s (1/4mi)
900 HP GTO ($79,180) 4.9s (0-60), 12.6s (1/4mi)

Compare that to
280 HP Boxster S ($67,520) 5.0s (0-60), 12.0 (1/4mi)
480 HP 911 Turbo ($122,900 base) 3.2s (0-60) 11.4 (1/4mi)

Hmm. Stock Boxster runs only a few tenths slower than an 1100 HP Viper to the quarter.

Hmm. The stock 911 Turbo (same issue) beats the pants off everyone to 60 and places 2nd through the quarter.

Hi,

Not at all the wrong side of the Bed, in fact it was a great day for me. Received a nice check today from my Partners in a Business Venture I have been involved in. I decided to go silent a year ago and just sold my equity for a tidy sum, more than double my expectation.

But, on point, one of Keith Duckworth's (the Worth in Cosworth) favorite sayings was that " It's better to be uninformed than misinformed..." and in this case it applies to you.

True the Boxster pre-dates the Cayenne, but you're confusing this with cause & effect. The Boxster did not allow Porsche to build the Cayenne, far from it. The Boxster is a niche Market Car and has only sold 137,041 units worldwide through 2004 - 8 years of production (the latest year figures are available) while in two years, the Cayenne sold 66,074 units and is currently outselling the Boxster by slightly more than 3-to-1. (Source Porsche A.G. 2004 Annual Report).

Based on Porsche's own reporting, they operated at an avg. 16% margin since the Boxster introduction and prior to Cayenne Production. This yielded an annual profit boost to Porsche of about $120M hardly the stuff of Major Car Companies. Boxster Sales peaked in 2000 with sales of 27,865 units and have been falling off each year since with 2003 Unit Sales of 12,988 (Porsche does not distinguish between Base and 'S' Models). In 2003, Porsche sold 39,913 Cayennes (vs 12,988 Boxsters) and since Cayenne introduction, Porsche's margin has increased to 19%.

The fact is that most of Porsches revenues during that time came about through Worldwide Currency fluctuations, their Finance Arm, and 911 Sales. But it is the strong sales of the Cayenne and the resulting reduction in cost of goods sold which has boosted it's financial health, not the Boxster.

But, there may be trouble brewing. A probe has begun about possible collusion between Porsche (and major shareholders) and the Government of Lower Saxony with regard to their recent VW acquisitions. If founded, this will likely have a strong negative effect to their Balance Sheet.

So far as it being the Fastest SUV on the Planet, who cares? As has been mentioned in another thread, you can make anything go fast if you put a big enough motor in it. And, for anything other than a straight line on the Freeway, it's unusable power. Sure, some Pro may be able to mangle it around the N-Ring at speed, but not your avg. Soccer Mom or Dad. Carmella Soprano drives one for Heaven's sake - 'nuff said. World's Shortest List: #9 Muslims I have met in Bars, #10 Porsche Cayennes with actual Mud on them... Poser - King of the Posers maybe, but Poser nonetheless...

Happy Motoring!... Jim'99

The 0-60 times for these rarified cars is fast becoming irrlevant for these super cars. The reason? Well, as they pointed out with the Lingenfelter Corvette, there are simply no tires that will work on the car, too much power.

The 0-100 MPH or the quarter is actually a more resonable test when HP exceeds 600, unless there is real breakthrough in street tire technology or unless you run race tires.