New Guy Checking In
 

Purchased a 2001 S with 27k miles a couple of weeks ago. It was a local car and have spoken to one of the previous owners indicating the car was babied while they had it. The last owner put 200 miles on the car and then stored it. I've searched this forum for a definitive answer but have yet to find it. I'm currently having the hood repainted, ordered a set of Sumitomos, ordered Suncoast upgraded cigarette lighter, planning an oil/filter change, air & cabin filter change and may soon upgrade the radio to a double din with nav. I found a reliable indy shop 90 miles north of me and was wondering what service you would advice to "refresh" the S given how inactive it has been. I'm sure an all-fluids flush is in order but what else?. Incidentally, the car drives wonderfully and have enjoyed ownership for what little seat time I've had with her.

Great forum you have here and I look to learning from you all.

Thanks in advance!

... and the obligatory photo...


[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y10...IMG_0150_1.jpg[/IMG]

congratulations on the new ride. I would advise the fluid change, tires if necessary, but nothing further. drive it for a while and see how you feel. trust me you will be having too much fun to worry about a nav system.

Great looking car and a picture on the first post! Well done!

If you really want to be sure about the maintenance, you could do a major service which would catch everything up to date and give you a clean starting point for the future.

When you do the oil change give the filter and the oil itself a real good look. Anything out of the ordinary like plastic bits or metal shavings should be investigated. How long was it stored and was an oil change done before storage or did it sit with used oil. Also, you might want to put in a magnetic drain plug when you change the oil.

Not to open a new discussion but you know where I am heading with this . . . . . An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

BTW, You are going to love the car.

Fluids, filters, serpentine belt, check the tires, relocate the frunk release to the tow hook, and enjoy it. Nice car: congrats and welcome!

With that low of mileage you may want to look into the ims retrofit or even better, the ims solution.

+1 The car looks just like mine, only better! If you haven't already heard, there is a bearing responsible for keeping the timing chains in place, and very similar to an older Honda timing belt, it needs to be changed occasionally or it can fail, and when it does it is usually time for a new engine. Low mileage cars that sit for years are especially vulnerable to this bearing failing. If it were me, I'd research the dreaded IMS bearing to make an informed decision on how to handle it.

Front motor mount tends to fail.

Thanks for the heads up guys and the warm welcome. The indy shop was pushing the IMS solution @$4k (he quoted me based on a previous 911 they completed). I called the Porsche dealers in Mobile, AL and Jackson, MS and was quoted $2500 and $2000, respectively. The Jackson dealer said he'd been a mechanic at that dealership for 10+ years and have only seen 3 failures. He said it should not be a huge concern. So what gives?

Depends on who you ask, but the low milage cars with infrequent oil changes seem to be most susceptible. The oil gets behind the "sealed" bearing, sits, becomes acidic and then eats away at the bearing, causing it to fail. Frequent oil changes, frequent, enthusiastic, driving will push new oil behind the bearing and thus not become acidic. That's my basic understanding. Since your car is low milage and you are not sure how often the oil was changed, you are a prime candidate to have the bearing replaced. There are tons of threads and opinions not only on this forum but every Porsche forum. Do some reading, and then make an informed decision. I have not replaced the bearing on my 2001 S which has just over 75,000 miles. I plan to replace it when it is time to replace the clutch. Until then, I have a magnetic drain plug, the LN spin on oil adapter, and have my oil analysed when I do my oil changes. I also check the filter for any tell tale signs. It's just something you should be aware of.

Welcome to the forum and thanks for the pic:cheers:

Nice car and welcome!

The IMS bearing is a decision you should think about, decide on your plan to deal with it and then forget about it and just enjoy driving the car hard and often.

I have an 01 S as well and with respect to the IMS Bearing, your model may have the dual row bearings as mine does (No IMS replacement needed).
That reduces your odds from ~5% chance of a failure to about 1% chance of a failure which is about the same or better than every other car out on the road.

If you can financially afford a second hand engine replacement for about $6k or a new engine for $15K, you could play the 5% odds (Single row bearing) you'll never have this problem.

If not then a $2000 replacement soon would be the best course of action as you are right in the danger zone with a lightly driven car with low miles.

You can look up your VIN in the Court case with Porsche and if your VIN range is excluded from the class action then its because you have the dual row bearings.

You'll have to do some digging on the forums to find that post.

In the mean time the car likes to be driven hard so don't be afraid to put the hammer down in the twisties.

I also highly recommend a Porsche Performance Driving School as you will be a safer driver and learn to drive that Porsche like it was meant to be.
You'll also be amazed at what your car can do and have so much fun that you may take the course more than once like some folks do.

PS: Don't fret over the IMS too much, just make your decision and enjoy the driving.

jb92563, thanks for the valuable input. Will definitely going on the hunt VIN range info.

Found it:
• Model year 2001 - 2005 Porsche Boxster vehicles manufactured with an IMS between May 4, 2001 and February 21, 2005 with VINs in the following ranges:
o WP0CA29851S620508 - WP0CA29831S620619
o WP0CB29811S660405 - WP0CB29801S660492
o WP0CA29821U625959 - WP0CA29891U627644
o WP0CB29861U664289 - WP0CB29841U665473
o WP0CA29892S620061 - WP0CA29802S620238
o WP0CA29832U620061 - WP0CA29892U626107
o WP0CB29802U660062 - WP0CB29892U664319
o WP0CB29862S660062 - WP0CB29852S660344
o WP0ZZZ98Z2U602762
o WP0ZZZ98Z2U640813
o WP0CA298X3S620068 - WP0CA29853S620222
o WP0CA29813U620061 - WP0CA298X3U625002
o WP0CB29803U660063 - WP0CB29803U663240
o WP0CB29853S660068 - WP0CB298X3S660227
o WP0ZZZ98Z3U604185
o WP0ZZZ98Z3U640971
o WP0CA29854S620061 - WP0CA29824S621085
o WP0CA298X4U620061 - WP0CA29854U621568
o WP0CB29804S660061 - WP0CB29834S660555
o WP0CB29854U660061 - WP0CB29834U661824
o WP0CA298X5U710067 - WP0CA29815U711852
o WP0CB29885U730069 - WP0CB29835U731310

My VIN: WPOCB29801U662232

VIN RANGE: WP0CB29854U660061 - WP0CB29834U661824

Looks like I fall within. Can anyone confirm? I got cross-eyed trying to compare.

I would say no, maybe some people who understand serial numbers and such can chime in and explain.

As I understand it the only way to tell for sure is to take it apart.

Fins, I don't think you are in any of the ranges indicated. Your VIN is before any of those listed. That said, it is still good practice to perform preventative medics. Frequent oil changes and filter inspections.

FYI, your VIN is WP0CB29801U662232, not WPOCB29801U662232.

That is a 'zero', not an 'O'.

Thanks for the correction.

I recommend you buy the Porsche boxster service manual. It is worth it's weight in gold. Check ebay for one.

I don't have any advice, but that sure is one beautiful Boxster!

Beautiful car. Welcome to the forum. I bought a 1997 with only 40K miles on it and had the same concerns. I decided that peace of mind and dependability were my biggest concern. I had my local indy mechanic drop my motor and I did the EPS IMS repair (see attached video) While he was @ it I had him change every rubber hose, the water pump (was already starting to get some play), Plugs and plug tubes, fuel/air/oil filters, Air/oil separator tank, rear main seal, front engine mount, transmission fluid and any other thing I could think of that would leave me on the side of the road. I spent about $2200 on all of this between parts and labor. I have since put almost 5k on it and she is purring like a cat. I have no reservations about jumping in and running up to the mountains and running her hard.
Here is the video:

https://vimeo.com/89968767
Have fun and play hard with her.

2200
 

For all that work is a bargain

Question: My build date was 12/2000 (Finland). The IMS recall build date range is May 4, 2001 and February 21, 2005. It appears my VIN is out of the VIN range also. Do I still pursue the IMS Retrofit/Solution?

There is a lot of speculation on IMS this and IMS that. Long story short, yes. the repair is up to you and you don't have to do it, the failure rate is low. (Higher for single row). These engines have a whole bunch of "modes of failure ". You could do the IMS and then the next day have your AOS take your engine out.

Redbox, my parents live in Norman -- I'n down here in Mississippi. So back to the IMS -- thanks for the advice and heightened sense of paranoia....:eek::)

Congrats Beautiful car. Welcome to the forum.

I have a 1997 and don't worry about IMS, just enjoy the car and spend less time on the forums. :D

Odds are you have a single row bearing. That bearing is 14 years old now.
Your car has sat idle for long periods. Odds are also high that the oil was not changed immediately before going into storage (the only way you should store it). That means it was sitting in acidic oil. Acidic oil and low miles are the special formula for big IMS issues. How many total oil changes has your car had in the last 14 years? If the number is not in the double digits, that's a bad thing.

Dual row or single row, you should get it replaced as both of these will fail if subjected to enough neglect. The IMS can fail because of contaminated oil as mentioned, or because of oil starvation. These appear to be the root causes of IMS failure. Straight swapping the IMS doesn't really address this issue it just removes a potentially compromised bearing for a fresh one. Each bearing has a shelf life, like all bearings, especially a sealed one inside of a hot engine. And that's the important thing, get the original one out of there. Or you can go with the Solution and avoid the effects of contamination and oil starvation on this weak spot entirely. It will pay for itself if you log enough miles on the car and you in fact have a single row bearing. Dual row bearing last much longer but are still susceptible to oil contamination and oil starvation.
That's why people who think they're out of the woods while riding around on a nearly 20 year old dual row bearing are making a mistake. Especially if that car has seen little mileage. You should always make a point of driving the car for at least an hour every week or two. That burns off the build up. We have one forum member from Florida who posted over 300K miles and is still on the original IMS. He maintains strict maintenance and burns off a lot of buildup by rackign up 20K+ miles a year. With these cars low mileage can be a bad thing if you are not on top of the oil changes and the water pump/coolant/hoses/cap/etc. Change the water pump every five years and oil once a year at least and your engine has a good shot of living a long life.

In your shoes I would first do a leak down and compression test before you spend all this money. With your mileage its probably fine. The second step would be to inspect the oil pan for any glitter. If all you see is oil down there, then do the IMS and water pump. Once the trans mission is down, your mechanic will confirm if the Solution is an option or if you can go with a straight dual row retrofit.

Also, don't listen to any percentages on likelihood of failure, or anecdotal feedback on how many single row failures someone has seen. Those cars have absolutely NOTHING to do with the current condition of your car as every single row bearing car was treated to different maintenance and driving habits.
No one has maintained a log of all the known IMS failures since 1996 so any attempt to put a number on the likelihood of your single row failure is merely a guess. Sometimes these guesses coincide with other guesses, but the underlying data is still majorly incomplete. Too many people are taking comfort in these soft numbers while a ready made solution to address this issue is within reach.

Perfectlap, thanks for your insight. I'm headed down the IMS update route via the Porsche dealership in Jackson, MS. No evidence of debris in oil filter during my last oil change a few days ago -- I'm assuming that's a good thing.

To make your choice even more difficult.

If you search on IMS preemptive replacements you will find that most folks who had their IMS done and examined the removed bearing found that it seemed to be in perfectly good shape.

I think it really comes down to your personality, whether your IMS should be changed when nothing is indicating a problem.

If you are a worry wart and thinking about it will hamper your enjoyment, then get the IMS done.

If your the type that will monitor your oil condition with filter examinations and magnetic oil plug and only think about it at oil change time, plus 99% (dual row bearings) chance nothing will ever come of it then you could skip the IMS change.

With a 14year old car there are other things that will come up and an IMS is pretty low on the probability list.

First off, great looking car. You will love it. I have a 2001 S I bought new. It is currently at 25,000 miles.

It is difficult to know what IMS you have without looking at the housing. And to see this you have to remove the transmission.

According to a Pelican article my Boxster has a dual row bearing. The car was manufactured in March of 2001. I found my engine number (passenger side of the engine) and it falls within the dual row range. HOWEVER, every respected mechanic on this board has found that this is not always correct.

It is a tough call whether to do the IMS baring replacement or not.

In the main time... enjoy the car.

Here is part of the Pelican article....


Which Bearing is Inside Your Engine?

The first step in replacing the bearing is to figure out which one you have in your engine. There were three variations installed over the years. Early cars typically have a large double row bearing that has a snap clip inside the bearing. Porsche later went to a single-row bearing design when the timing chain design was modified (see Figure 5 for a comparison of the two). Then, around model year 2006, Porsche installed a third version which is not replaceable. The supposed cut-off on engine numbers are listed in the Porsche factory Technical Bulletins, but unfortunately, these numbers are not 100% accurate, so you need to look at the bearing housing that is installed into your engine in order to be 100% sure as to which bearing you have (see Figure 5).

The question of which bearing is inside your engine is probably the number one question asked when people read this article. Porsche's electronic parts catalog lists the following engine numbers as the cutoffs for the various engines:

Engine Number - Model - Bearing Type

Up to engine # M 651 12851 - Boxster 2.7L M96.22 - Double Row Bearing
Up to engine # M 671 11237 - Boxster S 3.2L M96.21 - Double Row Bearing
From engine # M 651 12852 - Boxster 2.7L M96.22 - Single Row Bearing
From engine # M 651 11238 - Boxster S 3.2L M96.21 - Single Row Bearing

I'm pretty sure I recall hearing one of our IMS experts saying that an exterior evaluation of the IMS bearing upon extraction really is not conclusive of bearing being in its early stages of eventual failure. The bearing needs to be taken apart... you know all forensic like.

I don't think this is something to do with being a worry wart. It's a known problem with a fairly non-invasive way of addressing it. It's like walking past a crooked painting on the living room wall, a painting that you paid $15K for. How many times are you going to walk past that painting...

To the OP, the oil and filter was most likely changed in your car before it was sold. You'd have to check the pan if you're hunting for glitter.
Cracked peper corn size fragments in the oil filter -- in the unlikely event that you are un-rolling the oil filter at the exact time that the IMS bearing was imploding -- means that you've got an engine to rebuild, and do not put the key back in the ignition unless you want loose IMS ball bearings grenading the engine whole. Which means there really is no way to monitor when the amount of time you have left to do a timely IMS is past and an engine rebuild can be avoided.
People who put off single row bearing upgrades until the clutch needs fixing are nuts in my book. The thing is once you address the IMS and put in a new clutch, you get the full utility of a new clutch. By putting it off you're really only saving yourself a few hundred bucks in clutch wear that may be left on that old factory unit while potentially taking a HUGE risk.

Chuck W., what was your build date?

03/01

My engine number is M96 21 671 09227.

3.2 S engines with serial number up to 671 11237 should have double row IMS bearings.

Here are some photos I got from Google. The engine number is easily found on the left side of the engine just in from the right rear wheel. It is a shame that it is not a definitive answer on which IMS we have.

http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforum...ial-number.jpg

http://www.renntech.org/forums/uploa...2715096899.jpg

12/00 - one would think....

One problem, I have read, is that Porsche would build engines way in advance (perhaps years) then grab them as then needed them. As a result we are in a very gray area. Based on the maintenance I have given my Boxster and the likelihood that it has a dual row IMS, I am going to drive it and enjoy it and skip doing the IMS upgrade... for now.

Just to add numerical confirmation & confusion, my ROW 3.2 2001 S was built in January 2001 with engine #671 07779.
When I replaced the IMS in 2010, it was a dual row bearing, but as Chuck correctly alludes to, the engines are a grey area. The engine / transmission assemblies were built by Porsche (@ Stuttgart) and shipped to Finland for final assembly. Having seen vehicle manufacturers with my own eyes, the engine / gearbox assemblies are pulled out of storage and loaded onto the assembly lines "add hock" with no respect to bolting them into the chassis in numerical sequence.