Oil Change Frequency after LN IMS Bearing

[cardiffgiant]

I did the LN IMS bearign in 2013. I put about 3-4000 miles a year on the car and change the oil annually, at the end of the season. Is that enough, or should I also be changing the oil after I take it out of storage?

[Jake Raby]

No matter what, change oil before storage, use a proper oil with excellent storage characteristics. Then, change oil again a few days after storage.

The LN IMSR products are all developed around a 6 month, 5,000 mile service interval.

[cardiffgiant]

Excellent, thank you!

[bwillia080261]

Correct me if I am wrong but the LN IMS bearing does not retrofit an oil journal to feed the bearing. Therefore the IMS bearing itself is NOT oil fed. so why is oil change quantity and quality of any relevance to the LN bearing?

[jsceash]

Originally Posted by bwillia080261

Correct me if I am wrong but the LN IMS bearing does not retrofit an oil journal to feed the bearing. Therefore the IMS bearing itself is NOT oil fed. so why is oil change quantity and quality of any relevance to the LN bearing?

It's not directly fed. It does receive splash from pan and the chains and at times is submerged I the pan oil. The pan oil is the most contaminated oil in the motor and over time carries all the wear and carbon particles produced through normal operation.

[Jake Raby]

Originally Posted by bwillia080261

Correct me if I am wrong but the LN IMS bearing does not retrofit an oil journal to feed the bearing. Therefore the IMS bearing itself is NOT oil fed. so why is oil change quantity and quality of any relevance to the LN bearing?

The IMSR was developed around a 5K mile, 6 month oil service. I know, I did it.

The main key is to keep an oil feeding the unit thats got a healthy anti- wear package, and after 6 months in service, any oil will begin to see this diminish.

[Gelbster]

It has been stressed many times but once more:
1. do not overfill the engine oil- foaming & AOS issues
2.do not run below 1/2 way between low &full- oil starvation in some situations
3. use JGDT40 or better -the factory fill Mobil 1 is inadequate and there are several better choices available.
4.Full flow oil filter- to prevent collateral damage in the event of a bearing failure.

[embryoguy@mac.com]

How is the factory mobil one oil inadequate? Im sorry but I'm going to stick with that Porsche uses.

[Perfectlap]

Originally Posted by embryoguy@mac.com

How is the factory mobil one oil inadequate? Im sorry but I'm going to stick with that Porsche uses.

Have you searched this forum for the Mobil 1 "reformulation" history?

Porsche also said your IMSB wasn't an issue.

[Jamesp]

Originally Posted by embryoguy@mac.com

How is the factory mobil one oil inadequate? Im sorry but I'm going to stick with that Porsche uses.

Oil formulations change to meet changing market requirements. Oils recommended by manufacturers are frequently dictated by CAFE standards. They don't care if your car wears out, they care that their fleet hits a target MPG. Oils too can change formulation over time to match newer car engineering demands. The "Mobil 1" you buy today may not be your fathers Mobil 1. ExxonMobil has no obligation whatsoever other than market pressure, to keep their formulation the same. Are you familiar with 2003 Mobil 1 formulation versus to 2014 formulation? Me either. The designer oils don't have these market constraints and can be tailored to do things like reduce wear at the expense of fuel mileage.

[mnc-i]

You guys are killing me with all this IMS and oil stuff.

My 1999 Boxster just went over 240,000 miles. It still has its original IMS and I use Mobil 1 (10W40 high mileage and 15W50).

This weekend I will change the oil & filter as I always do every 10,000 miles.

If Mobil 1 is good enough for Porsche, then it is good enough for me. If I can find royal purple in 5 quart jugs like Mobil 1, I will start using it.

Just my two cents.

MNC-I

[njbray]

I am due to do my first oil change next week - 5000 on the new LN dble row IMS.
Ordered some Liqui Moly 2332 Leichtlauf High Tech 5W-40 from amazon. I have heard good things about this so decided to give it a try.

[newBgeek]

Originally Posted by Jake Raby

The IMSR was developed around a 5K mile, 6 month oil service. I know, I did it.

The main key is to keep an oil feeding the unit thats got a healthy anti- wear package, and after 6 months in service, any oil will begin to see this diminish.

I assume that you mean the additives which neutralize acidity in the oil. As I understand it, oil acidity can turn seals hard and brittle and ultimately cause them to fail. My understanding of IMS failures is that the seal fails allowing engine oil into the bearing. Then centrifugal force does its magic (like the spin cycle of your washing machine) and ejects all the lubrication. Without proper lubrication, bearing failure is imminent.

Jake, my question to you is how is the seal in the LN bearing different than that of the upgraded Porsche IMS bearing? Has the seal design or material changed in different revisions of the LN bearing? Mine is from early last year and I'm wondering which revision I have?

Also, why would you change oil that has only been sitting for 5 or 6 months? Oil is not hygroscopic like brake fluid. Just wondering if you feel that the additives are evaporating or whether it's just to eject the cob webs? I would be very hesitant to dump clean, acid free oil, though I do change oil in all my cars every 5000km (about 3,000 miles). If vegetable oil can sit in your pantry for a year, surely engine oil can do the same in your engine. No?

[JFP in PA]

Originally Posted by newBgeek

I assume that you mean the additives which neutralize acidity in the oil. As I understand it, oil acidity can turn seals hard and brittle and ultimately cause them to fail. My understanding of IMS failures is that the seal fails allowing engine oil into the bearing. Then centrifugal force does its magic (like the spin cycle of your washing machine) and ejects all the lubrication. Without proper lubrication, bearing failure is imminent.

Jake, my question to you is how is the seal in the LN bearing different than that of the upgraded Porsche IMS bearing? Has the seal design or material changed in different revisions of the LN bearing? Mine is from early last year and I'm wondering which revision I have?

Also, why would you change oil that has only been sitting for 5 or 6 months? Oil is not hygroscopic like brake fluid. Just wondering if you feel that the additives are evaporating or whether it's just to eject the cob webs? I would be very hesitant to dump clean, acid free oil, though I do change oil in all my cars every 5000km (about 3,000 miles). If vegetable oil can sit in your pantry for a year, surely engine oil can do the same in your engine. No?

The vegetable oil is sitting in an inert container, your engine oil is not. Engines see all kinds of contaminants such as fuel, water, debris from inside the engine, etc.; even with only limited run time on the oil. Some of these contaminants form acids while sitting and can break down both the additive packages as well as the base stock polymers given enough time. The acids formed can also attack critical engine components as well. This is why you get the contaminated oil out of the car before putting into hibernation for the winter.

The LN design IMS bearings only have a seal on the shaft side, the flywheel side of the bearing is open to splash lubrication.

[newBgeek]

Originally Posted by JFP in PA

The LN design IMS bearings only have a seal on the shaft side, the flywheel side of the bearing is open to splash lubrication.

Wow, I did not know that. Great info. No more worries about failed seals blowing up the engine!

One more question. Does the LN bearing have any special design characteristics that would force splash the bearing? How does it overcome the forces of centrifugal force as shown in Pedro's video, or is it designed to run for extended periods with little to no lubrication?

[Perfectlap]

Originally Posted by mnc-i

You guys are killing me with all this IMS and oil stuff.

My 1999 Boxster just went over 240,000 miles. It still has its original IMS and I use Mobil 1 (10W40 high mileage and 15W50).

This weekend I will change the oil & filter as I always do every 10,000 miles.

If Mobil 1 is good enough for Porsche, then it is good enough for me. If I can find royal purple in 5 quart jugs like Mobil 1, I will start using it.

Just my two cents.

MNC-I

But you've got a 2.5
Dual row bearing has better longevity.
You also have more chains.
And you've logged (presumably) ~16k miles avg per year.
more miles, more time for the engine to burn off build up.

Most IMSB's that fail don't really many of the above.
Thus they need a better oil than the one Porsche gets paid to use as factory fill, assuming that's how the arrangement works.
Different levels of protection for different styles of driving and maintenance habits.

[JFP in PA]

Originally Posted by newBgeek

Wow, I did not know that. Great info. No more worries about failed seals blowing up the engine!

One more question. Does the LN bearing have any special design characteristics that would force splash the bearing? How does it overcome the forces of centrifugal force as shown in Pedro's video, or is it designed to run for extended periods with little to no lubrication?

No special characteristics are required to get splash lubrication; the bearing is partially submerged in sump oil when the engine is not running, and the normal misting and oil splash in the sump is more than enough to keep it lubricated as there is no rear seal. And as it takes very little oil film to properly lubricate and cool a ceramic hybrid bearing, you need to view that particular video with more than a grain of salt.

[newBgeek]

Originally Posted by JFP in PA

No special characteristics are required to get splash lubrication; the bearing is partially submerged in sump oil when the engine is not running, and the normal misting and oil splash in the sump is more than enough to keep it lubricated as there is no rear seal. And as it takes very little oil film to properly lubricate and cool a ceramic hybrid bearing, you need to view that particular video with more than a grain of salt.

Jake, thank you for answering all of my questions. I learned a lot today!

My next question was answered in your website, the LN retrofit is rated for 50,000 miles, which means I can look forward to another replacement in about 3 years

I think when the time comes, I'll return to the stock Porsche bearing with the improved seal. It seems to me that relying on splash lubrication in a part of the engine which was never originally designed for splash lubrication will have a lot of variability, like your driving style. Mine is a daily driver highway cruiser, which is probably the worst scenario for lubricating the bearing. You really need to "drive it like you stole it" for the best lubrication. I can imagine explaining that to a police officer, "Just lubricating my bearings, officer!" lol

[JFP in PA]

Originally Posted by newBgeek

Jake, thank you for answering all of my questions. I learned a lot today!

My next question was answered in your website, the LN retrofit is rated for 50,000 miles, which means I can look forward to another replacement in about 3 years

I think when the time comes, I'll return to the stock Porsche bearing with the improved seal. It seems to me that relying on splash lubrication in a part of the engine which was never originally designed for splash lubrication will have a lot of variability, like your driving style. Mine is a daily driver highway cruiser, which is probably the worst scenario for lubricating the bearing. You really need to "drive it like you stole it" for the best lubrication. I can imagine explaining that to a police officer, "Just lubricating my bearings, officer!" lol

That mileage rating is very conservative; we have several customers that are way beyond that mileage and are showing no signs of problems. I would not be overly concerned about that number.

[Jake Raby]

Originally Posted by newBgeek

Jake, thank you for answering all of my questions. I learned a lot today!

My next question was answered in your website, the LN retrofit is rated for 50,000 miles, which means I can look forward to another replacement in about 3 years

I think when the time comes, I'll return to the stock Porsche bearing with the improved seal. It seems to me that relying on splash lubrication in a part of the engine which was never originally designed for splash lubrication will have a lot of variability, like your driving style. Mine is a daily driver highway cruiser, which is probably the worst scenario for lubricating the bearing. You really need to "drive it like you stole it" for the best lubrication. I can imagine explaining that to a police officer, "Just lubricating my bearings, officer!" lol

There is no "stock Porsche bearing"... Never has been, never will be.

My development of the IMS Retrofit included engines that saw nothing but idle speed for several hundred hours. At idle speed the bearing sees more than enough splash lube, even with idle being the highest load the bearing sees, ever.

The record is an engine idling for 265 hours straight without being shut off at all. Then it came apart and was reviewed.. Then reinstalled and ran wide open for 4 solid hours, so long that the exhaust bolts broke in half and fell onto the dyno.

You don't need to drive it like you stole it for the bearing to live with splash lube. Quit listening to people who don't understand the topic they are writing about.