IMSB - Did I Dodge A Bullet

[BobRickel]

Originally Posted by Jamesp

Just realized, "BobRickel" is posting the same video on other IMS strings. Wonder if there's a sales pitch buried in there somewhere...

I have no interest, financial or otherwise, in the EPS IMS solution except to share a great product with others on this forum. I have owned/restored 429 vehicles (311 cars/trucks and 118 motorcycles), including 23 Porsches over the last 46 years and know a good product and engineering when I see it.

[Jamesp]

Originally Posted by BobRickel

I have no interest, financial or otherwise, in the EPS IMS solution except to share a great product with others on this forum. I have owned/restored 429 vehicles (311 cars/trucks and 118 motorcycles), including 23 Porsches over the last 46 years and know a good product and engineering when I see it.

Nice numbers Bob. I'm super impressed. Did you know this great product ran unfiltered oil through a roller bearing? Is that how you'd treat the engines in your 4000+ vehicles? Well that's not how I roll, or any car company since the 1920's. Rock on Bob!

[flaps10]

"Unfiltered" is slightly misleading. We're not talking about "never been filtered nasty, metal filled oil", it's oil fresh off the oil pump, immediately before the oil would have been rammed through the filter.

That would make it the same as the splash oil supply used on any other option but the Solution which isn't available to all of us.

One could argue that the LN Solution uses "uncooled" oil since it takes the oil from the filter base but prior to going through the cooler (the next step in the oil path). That would be an unfair claim.

I'd say in both cases the oil is being filtered and cooled several times per minute.

And yes, I have the LN filter and magnetic drain plug ready to install.

[Jamesp]

Originally Posted by flaps10

"Unfiltered" is slightly misleading. We're not talking about "never been filtered nasty, metal filled oil", it's oil fresh off the oil pump, immediately before the oil would have been rammed through the filter.

That would make it the same as the splash oil supply used on any other option but the Solution which isn't available to all of us.

One could argue that the LN Solution uses "uncooled" oil since it takes the oil from the filter base but prior to going through the cooler (the next step in the oil path). That would be an unfair claim.

I'd say in both cases the oil is being filtered and cooled several times per minute.

And yes, I have the LN filter and magnetic drain plug ready to install.

Hmm.... unfiltered, or "fresh off the oil pump, immediately before (my bold) the oil would have been rammed through the filter". Hmm... before the oil goes through the filter... seems to me that would be the very definition of unfiltered. And I am talking about nasty metal filled oil, there will be wear particles in all engine oil, that would be what the filter is for... I totally agree about the "same splash oil used in any other option". That's why I didn't go with those. Particulate in a mechanical bearing = failure. Best to keep the bearing sealed, and the grease in the bearing.

[flaps10]

Originally Posted by Jamesp

Hmm.... unfiltered, or "fresh off the oil pump, immediately before (my bold) the oil would have been rammed through the filter". Hmm... before the oil goes through the filter... seems to me that would be the very definition of unfiltered. And I am talking about nasty metal filled oil, there will be wear particles in all engine oil, that would be what the filter is for... I totally agree about the "same splash oil used in any other option". That's why I didn't go with those. Particulate in a mechanical bearing = failure. Best to keep the bearing sealed, and the grease in the bearing.

I worded it carefully enough that I felt like I acknowledged where the oil came from. Not trying to get into an argument James, I totally respect your input on anything I've seen here.

My point is that in a normal running engine there should be zero loose metal. Since it would seem that most wayward metal in the M96 comes from the stock IMS the last place I'm worried about pumping metal through is an already failing bearing.

Once any metal starts coming off that bearing the s*** show has begun, and the place I'd LOVE to see protected from loose metal would be the mains and rod bearings, and the LN full flow oil filter does that far better than the stock system.

Those main and rod bearings required more than a little wrench turning for me to hold in my hands.

[Jamesp]

Originally Posted by flaps10

I worded it carefully enough that I felt like I acknowledged where the oil came from. Not trying to get into an argument James, I totally respect your input on anything I've seen here.

My point is that in a normal running engine there should be zero loose metal. Since it would seem that most wayward metal in the M96 comes from the stock IMS the last place I'm worried about pumping metal through is an already failing bearing.

Once any metal starts coming off that bearing the s*** show has begun, and the place I'd LOVE to see protected from loose metal would be the mains and rod bearings, and the LN full flow oil filter does that far better than the stock system.

Those main and rod bearings required more than a little wrench turning for me to hold in my hands.

Flaps10 (and I have to say I love your handle, being an aircraft engineer - not aerospace mind you despite the fact my disposition is manned spacecraft) don't tread lightly, and please argue. I'm an engineer, not a politician. I respect your opinion though I might not agree with it at first, I have to be convinced. I've had my engine down to the crank and back up again, complete with my own internal IMS modifications. I can confidently say I own the one and only M96-24 with a vented IMS. You chose a bearing lubrication path that I not only came up with first (to my knowledge) but also discounted due to using unfiltered oil in the lubrication system. Particulate (even very small) will damage the surface finish of bearings. As the surfaces are damaged, they begin to damage themselves (brinelling) then it's a quick trip to failure. Roller bearings having line versus ball bearing point contact appear even more susceptible to this damage. That's why I suggested the magnets - they are effective in pulling out very small particles of metal from the oil. My sense is that the configuration you chose should be fine in the long term, but if it were me I'd be sensitive to precluding particulate in the oil - hence the suggestion for magnets.

[thom4782]

This whole 'forced oiling' debate is hilarious.

Without any measurable facts put on the table, e.g., forced oiling increases lubricating film thicknesses by X percent and reduces bearing wear rates by Y percent compared to splash oiling, it's like arguing whether person gets wetter jumping in one of the great lakes versus jumping in a swimming pool.

[Smallblock454]

Originally Posted by Jamesp

I can confidently say I own the one and only M96-24 with a vented IMS.

Vented sounds interesting.

If you consider that the IMS is a sealed tube, and that the air gas volume inside is constant, you'll have a very different air overpressure at let's say 10 degrees celsius and 110 degrees celsius. At the same time you'll have a constant underpressure of around −2 mbar in the engine. Does anybody know the inner volume of the IMS tube, so we can calculate the air overpressure at different engine temeratures?

This might also be a cause why the OEM IMS sealing is stressed by temperature change.

The term vented is used as ventilation i think. How does that work? Because if you do not use a sealed bearing the pressure in the engine should be the same as in the complete engine. Or am i wrong?

PS: sorry that i use the metric system.