Heartbroken
 

Last night on our way out to for our Friday night outing my wife and I decided to take the Boxster. Sadly we were rear ended while stopped at a stop sign. Lucky we are OK and it appears that the driver has insurance. I've contacted my insurance (Progressive) an started a claim. At this point we are going to try and work through the other drivers insurance to get the claim paid. From what I can tell by looking at the car the drivers side tail light is broken and not operational, the bumperettes are damaged, one of them is broken off, the rear plastic molding is damaged, I can't really tell if there is more damage or not. No one besides Jim Elis Porsche in Atlanta or Naples Porsche in Naples Fl has ever worked on this car and I have every service slip and receipt for anything that has been done to this car. My question is does anyone have any experience dealing with this situation? I have tried very hard to maintain the integrity of this car by always getting it serviced by a dealer and keeping all documentation. I do not want anyone but a Porsche authorized service person doing the repairs. How much of a fight am I in for and is it worth it?

Thanks,
Keysguy

http://986forum.com/forums/general-discussions/26234-minor-accident-concerns-cost.html

I had a similar accident, but it sounds like you were hit harder. My damage was confined to the bumper. You can review my experience - I attached a link.

Good luck. I'm glad no one was hurt.

My Toyota Tundra was hit in the rear. I insisted that my dealer was going to be the only one to touch it(I bought it new from them). Their insurance company agreed, no problem. Yes it's worth it!

You are entirely aloud to have your car fixed wherever you want, we sent my car to the local high end place, we were told that what the insurance had appraised were a bunch of junk yard parts, all the cheapest of the cheap, once my car was in the right hands it was deemed as totaled, I doubt yours will be, but find the right place and it will be fixed the best way possible. Sorry to hear about the accident.

Thanks for the responses so far. The other drivers insurance is Foremost Insurance. Hopefully they will be cooperative....

I always hate to hear one of us is down. I hope he has enough coverage.

Don't fail to consider an independent auto body shop. Depending on the Porsche dealer, a body shop that specializes in body repair and paint might have more experience and expertise in this sort of repair.

you can get your car fixed where ever you want. Generally they will accept the insurance quote. Ifthey have higher costs or find additional work needed, they will contact the insurance company and deal with it
Find the best body shop you can

Since it wasn't your fault, you have some leverage
also don't forget to go see a doctor and make sure you had no injuries. Even a slight rear end collision can cause back and neck problems, sometimes it doesn't show up for a little bit
The other guys insurance will cover all your medical bills including physical therapy

And don't forget the rental car the other insurance will pay for until yours is fixed

You may want to speak with an personal injury lawyer, at least for a consult

Keep the lawyers and doctors out of it unless you actually have an injury (you will be able to determine this by whether or not you have any neck or back pain and/or unusual stiffness). Far too many unnecessary lawsuits in our society these days!

Don't forget to ask for compensation for "diminished value". A car that's been in an accident is not going to sell for as much as an identical car that has not been in an accident.

Yes absolutely ask for diminished value, ask your dealer what body shop they would suggest and maybe get a consult with a lawyer, they tend to know which shops will hold the insurance companies up by the toes until your car is fixed right.

http://986forum.com/forums/general-discussions/43878-ahhh-my-car-hit-bad-today.html

I hope that your situation is better than mine.

To make a long story short;

• My Silver Boxster was totaled
• Driver did not enough coverage for my car + property damage to the city
• Had to buy a replacement car with my own money due to lengthy delays
• My insurance paid eventually paid part of the total claim
• Had to fight endlessly to get the other driver's insurance to pay anything
• Took over a year to settle everything and receive final payment

Best of luck.

Thanks all for the advise. I was hoping to keep lawyers out of it but it's already turning ugly. My insurance company recommended that I file the claim directly with the other ones to avoid any out of pocket expenses. (detectable and such) The other insurance company just told me they have no adjuster in my area (Florida Keys) and i needed to e-mail them pictures to get the process started. Easy enough then I could take the car to any shop I choose to have the work done and if the work was more they would pay than the estimate from the pictures they woudl pay for it. The problem is I an 3 hours away form the nearest Porsche dealer, so I told them that was fine with me please arrange to have it towed to the Porsche dealer in Miami. They will only tow it to the "closest" repair shop, but I can have the work done anywhere I want I just need to pay for the towing there. I could drive it up but that means at least two days off One up and one back plus the rental car. Not sure what to do from this point.... I was already wondering about the diminished value because now the car has a carfax history, never was able to get to that point

I will try and get few pictures posted later today or tonight, It doesn't look that bad in pictures but gaps are screwed up.

don't be afraid to get a lawyer involved. They should give you a free consultation and let you know your options and rights. It should not cost you a dime, they will get paid from the other insurance company

Your claim is with the other drivers insurance company, not yours. Your insurance should only come into play if the other person was under insured and does not have coverage to pay for your repairs, loss of use (rental car) and any injuries

I am not advocating making up an injury, but I do know from experience that even a slow speed rear ender can cause you injuries that you may not even realize that you were injured. I was hit from behind a few years ago while stopped at a red light. The other person was traveling at maybe 10 mph and I did suffer mild whiplash as well as some lower back pain. It did not manifest until several days later. I ended up having about 5 weeks of physical therapy.

Long story short, go see a doctor and get checked out even if you don't think you were injured. any rear end collision can cause whiplash, back injuries and even a concussion. Their insurance should cover your medical costs.

As far as the tow, you need to become a very squeaky wheel with the other insurance company, might need to move it up the food chain and get to a manager. You have a high performance sports car that need specialized service and if the closest place that specializes in Porsche repair is 3 hours away, that is where they need to get your car, not a local Earl Scheib or Maaco or Joe's cheap and easy

The tow issue alone may warrant getting represented by a lawyer

Sorry for your loss, hopefully there is not frame damage and it can get properly repaired to your satisfaction

I won't try to give you any specific advice, but I will say that the only way that I got what I was fairly owed was to never, never, never give up.

Everytime that the other drivers insurance company told me about some "policy" (like what they are telling you about only paying towing to the nearest repair shop), I would immediately inform them in writing that their "policy" was non-binding because I never agreed to those terms (since it is the other person's insurance).

I would then remind them that the other driver's responsibility was to repair my car to "like" condition at the shop of my choice including all associated costs.

Then they would come back and re-iterate the same "policy".

Then I would write back and say that if they weren't going to cover all of the costs that they needed to immediatley include their insured on all correspondence so the other driver was aware of what costs his insurance company was passing on to him.

This usually got them to cover the costs. But it also took me several letters and months of going back and forth.

Remember, the insurance company is counting on you giving up and giving in. I believe that they save millions in fair payouts each year using these tactics.

This is why I ended up buying a replacement car on my own money - they delayed and delayed and delayed hoping that I would settle for less $$$. They were hoping that putting me in that situation would force me to do so but I had the financial ability to move on without their money.

My only advice is that you do not budge an inch. You weren't out there hoping that someone would ruin your prized sports car, and put you at risk of physical harm in the process.

I agree with thstone. It is only right that your vehicle be restored to the condition that it was in before the accident occurred and/or that you be compensated for any difference between what it was like before it was hit by their customer and what it will be like when this is said and done.

Since the insurance company is not likely to be easy to deal with for something like this, a lawyer is really not a bad idea.

My wife told me to post everything that is going on on this board because of all the people that may have been through this before and I would get some good advise. Sadly she was right. (sad because she was right and I have to admit it to her and sad because of damaged Porsche's) unfortunatly it looks like I'm going to put the battery maintainer on the car and sit ans wait for the long fight. Thanks thstone for the This is almost the exact argument I was having with them.

Next issue is how do I honestly figure out the diminished value? KBB has the car a couple of $K under what I consider it at, and dropping from excelent to fair only drops the price $1000 So how much does a fender bender with $2k or so damage lower the value?

Keysguy


PS again I know my damages are very minor compared to some of the threads I've scene over the years but, I've taken so much pride, joy and spent extra $$ in maintaining the integrity and pedigree of this car it is just killing me at the thought of not putting OEM parts back into it. I was never like this with any of the other Porsche's I've had, I think mainly because when I got them they were already used and abused, this one was not.

Don't get too down. You WILL get OEM parts put back on, you just have to insist on it! That is what I had to do with my Tundra. The insured damaged my OEM parts, so I demanded OEM parts go back on. With that incident, I really didn't have to fight very hard. It's a PITA but you just have to go with it. It will get fixed where you want it to be fixed and with the parts you want.

http://986forum.com/forums/uploads01/car11405376037.jpg
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OK I am totally crappy at taking pictures because these look NOTHING like real life. In real life you can see the gap difference between the spoiler and trunk on top and then the spoiler and the bottom, plus the drivers side where the light goes is pushed up slightly. Again I (and others) can see it in real life just not in my badly taken pictures. The rear is also scraped and gouged and pressed in below the taillight.

You may need to insist that both tailights be replaced so that they match.

Keep up the fight

Tom is right and when you don't get satisfaction form the adjuster, speak with their manager and keep going up the food chain until you get someone that will finally do the right thing, which is give you what you are asking for (assuming you are being at least a little reasonable)

You are under no obligation to accept ANY offer the insurance company makes and Tom is correct, the driver of the other car is liable to make you whole. If his insurance company doesn't step up, then it comes out of his pocket (that's why you have insurance)

Like I said before, speak with a lawyer. At the end of the day, that is what they are for and from my experience, you end up with a better deal and more cash in your pocket

As far as value, you need to look at true replacement cost. The true value is what would it cost to replace the car including adjustments for its superior condition, etc, not just the KBB number.

Its hard to tell from your pics (yes you do take crappy pics LOL), but it doesn't look like it is even close to totaled. Be sure to get thje frame checked and it will probably need some suspension components and definitely a proper alignment

Stick to your guns and get it inspected and repaired where you want, even if it is a 3 hour tow. The value the adjuster gives is simply his opinion of cost and most likely is based on average repair shops and discount components, not a high end shop with OEM/factory parts.

If it was your insurance company paying, you might have to accept their estimate, but since its not, you have some leverage

In my 40 years of driving, I have had to deal with accidents a few times and nevr has been my fault. The last time It was my wife's Explorer and we had it fixed aat a very exclusive shop that specializes in Porsche, Ferrari and lambo. It took them about a week longer that the insurance company wanted to fix it and cost about 50% more, but that had no choice., Of course, the Explorer looked better than new and was perfect when they were done

One more thing - I remained very businesslike (calm, cool, respectful, and patient) through the year long ordeal. I never yelled at the insurance adjuster (as much as I so wanted to!) and never threatened a lawsuit. But I was consistent in saying that "it was only fair that I collect the entire value of the damage" and backed it all up with receipts and quotes.

So far I've been very calm and facts only but firm, I'm actually kind of good at that part. At the end of my conversation when the insurance person and I came to the impasse she told me I needed to file a claim with my insurance company I told her that I had files the claim with them not mine and I expected them to take care of my car. The car is definitely not totaled. As far as being unreasonable so far I've just asked for the car to be repaired at a Porsche approved facility and/or that a Porsche dealer sign off that the work was done properly and to Porsche specifications. I haven't demanded anything like extra $$, or a rental car. I can deliver the car to the dealer and they can pay for my time off work or they can pay for towing. (the towing would be cheaper + then I would not need a rental.)

Good news today. I called one of the Porsche Certified Collision Centers that located in Ft. Lauderdale and they deal with this sort of thing all the time. He carefully explained the process to me and said getting the insurance company to pay for the towing was not going to be an issue. Brighter skys are ahead :) Not doing the happy dance yet but getting a lot closer.

Cool, good news

Quick update..Sadly nothing has happened yet, I have not gotten an attorney at this point but am rapidly approaching that bridge.

as we say in Calif, lawyer up!

Well that's good news.

The bumpers on the boxster are designed to deform and they will quite a bit, without damaging the bodyshell. a replaced or repainted PU will not affect the value of your car, dealers often repaint the front PU on Porsche due to stone chips and the saleable presentation of the car. To be honest many new cars on the forecourt have had paint even before first registration due to transit damage.

My paint guy does quite a bit of work for main dealers due to such damage!

I had my boxster smacked in the rear in Airport Parking at London Heathrow the bumper deformed up to the licence plate popped back out with no serious damage.

However my front PU needed painting anyway due to stone chips.

One thing to check is the rear spoiler operation, the metal strip that runs along the top of the bumper mounting can get pushed against the spoiler so when the spoiler operates it will scratch the black finish up. its not major but you'll be pissed when cleaning it with the spoiler up and notice the scratches after having the car repaired ! when the PU is removed makes sure they check for any panel deformation too.

The rear PU is no big issue, its 15 minutes to remove however, make sure the body shop that does the work is good at paint, if you can, ask to see some their cars in finishing so you can see the skill of their sprayers. Do bear in mind that metal and PU will have a slightly different colour match anyway as they are different materials.

The best news is that it was only a bump and you and yours are fine.

When I was hit I drove it to a shop that specializes in Lambo and sports cars. Same day.

Then called their ins. Told them where I brought my car and asked where to get my rental. Was told they didn't have loaner coverage or whatever. Explained I would rent whatever car I wanted and my next call was my attorney. Was given a rental car that moment, some crappy Chevy rental. Explained I just dropped off a Porsche. They upgraded my rental to a very new GMC SUV.

Then headlights. New one did not match faded look of original one. They swapped it to make them match.

Insist. Don't ask, tell them what your rights are and insist.

My other summer car, a Lamborghini Gallardo, was hit TWICE in the past 60 days. I was supposed to drive it to Boston for a conference last month on a Sunday. Friday a taxi driver, trying to do a completely illegal U-turn in the middle of a major road (yeah, like a highway with nothing separating the lanes) ends up rear ending me. Long story short, he gets charged with careless driving, gets 6 points on his license, loses his job due to the points, etc.
As there are no Lamborghini dealers here, I have to bring the car to Montreal for the repairs.
Last time it was a 70-year old lady in a Toyota Matrix, trying to cross 3 lanes to make an illegal left turn in another major road over here. I was stopped as traffic was all backed up and she hits my front fender.
This second one though was much bigger money wise. The two aluminum grills on the Gallardo, around the exhaust, cost around $2500 EACH. Something broke on the bumper (some sort of bracket) and the dealer is replacing the whole damn thing, another $3,000 just for the parts. Once they add all the labour (painting, etc) I can bet we will be up to $8,000.
Of course I am after the diminished value as this does affect such cars much more than the Boxster.
Just a massive PITA really, no matter what you drive when this sort of crap happens. At least you are 100% ok and that is what matters. Cars, we replace them if needed. People, nope.

CR

I am surprised the Audi dealers do not have at least one tech certified.

After two months the car has finally been taken to the Porsche Certified shop in Ft. Lauderdale. Good news is the attorney is not sending me a bill. (long story) Bad news is I'm paying for lots of it and then submitting my bills to the insurance company. If they fail to pay I will with the attorney's help be suing the other driver and his insurance company. If anyone has Foremost Insurance / Bristol West be warned they are AWFUL and will not pay for anything, delay, loose your paperwork and generally stall as long as they can. Ive dealt with some bad insurance companies (windstorm after a hurricane) but they are by far the worst.

Glad to hear you are finally getting it fixed, sorry that your insurance co is a PITA

If AAA in your area does auto insurance, they are great! Also some of the lowest rates around

Did you call Flo for a consult :D Sorry for the accident and good luck with the repairs.

It's not my insurance that is the PITA it's the other drivers. I tried to file though the other drivers based on my discussion with Flo's workmates. I have now filed through Flo but, they may or may not pay for the towing. If they don't then I will have to pay for it and try and collect from Foremost. Foremost will only pay for towing up to 5 miles. (Lol) I and my attorney have been dealing with them for a long time their answer to everything is "no". Two attorney have now looked at my paperwork and both said they will have to pay they are just stalling to get you to do what they want. The reason the tow bill is such a big deal is that the one way flatbed was $750. In the grand scheme if things it's not much but to Foremost it's all the $$$ in the world.

Goodluck, greed is common in this world and these insurance cos have found out that the average person has no patience, so stalling is all it takes to rob them blind, stay stubborn and hold your ground, goodluck.

I'm really sorry but you seem to be having the same experience that I had. It sucks. It sucks to argue with people. It sucks to watch your car sit for months with nothing happening. It sucks to have done nothing wrong yet be spending a ton of time trying to get something to happen. It sucks that the insurance company won't do the right thing.

Each time that the insurance company told me no, I said then are you going to notify your insured or do you want me to? Because if you're not going to pay for it, then your insured will, one way or another, and your insured needs to know how big of a bill that you are passing onto him. I said this as unemotionally and business-like as possible - its not personal, its just damage collection, and I was intent on collecting what was fairly due to me.

Know that they are counting on you giving up (or giving in). Don't.

I hope to have my car back in about a week and a half. $4700 plus the towing back and forth to the shop.