The ims waiting game. I'm a winner!

[Rickinduncan]

Well, kinda.

Bought my 03 base in March and debated the ims retrofit probably every night before and during sleep. Last month my clutch started to slip in high gear. I was never so happy to see those rpms shoot up, while watching the speedo creep up slowly. My local dealer, who hadn't given any warranty, written or implied when I bought the car, said they would give me a break on the clutch replacement and an LN bearing replacement, which also includes a 2 year guarantee. I was a happy man!

Until my wife mentioned that she really liked the boxster, but was too short to drive it comfortably. The very helpful salesman suggested something in a 987, which has the tilt steering wheel, power seats, and ... 'Oh look' a tiptronic transmission!

My Box gets flat decked tomorrow for repairs, then most likely immediately traded off on an 07 hairdresser's car. :ah:

[Timco]

Originally Posted by Rickinduncan

Well, kinda.

Bought my 03 base in March and debated the ims retrofit probably every night before and during sleep. Last month my clutch started to slip in high gear. I was never so happy to see those rpms shoot up, while watching the speedo creep up slowly. My local dealer, who hadn't given any warranty, written or implied when I bought the car, said they would give me a break on the clutch replacement and an LN bearing replacement, which also includes a 2 year guarantee. I was a happy man!

Until my wife mentioned that she really liked the boxster, but was too short to drive it comfortably. The very helpful salesman suggested something in a 987, which has the tilt steering wheel, power seats, and ... 'Oh look' a tiptronic transmission!

My Box gets flat decked tomorrow for repairs, then most likely immediately traded off on an 07 hairdresser's car. :ah:

At least she really likes your car. My wife has not driven my car in the 1.5 years I've owned it and has ridden in it maybe 5 times. We did drive up the canyon with the top down once, but I drove too fast.

Oh well.......

[johnsimion]

Originally Posted by Rickinduncan

My Box gets flat decked tomorrow for repairs, then most likely immediately traded off on an 07 hairdresser's car. :ah:

"Well kinda" is well said. Your existing car is dead and the car you are buying also has the IMS. Maybe not as risky, but it's still there. Hard to see that as much of a "win."

[LAP1DOUG]

Get her a pillow to sit on.

[Rickinduncan]

Originally Posted by LAP1DOUG

Get her a pillow to sit on.

Already tried the pillow route. Didn't work.

Heeeey, wait a minute ! Maybe I'm looking at trading off the wrong unit. If I replace the 5 foot 1 model, with a 20 year newer 5 foot 8 model....yep, that might work

But then all I'd be able to afford would be that 1972 VW 311 stick model.

On second thought, a tip can't be that bad. Can it?

[RawleyD]

Originally Posted by Rickinduncan

On second thought, a tip can't be that bad. Can it?

depends.. How bad are your knees? ;P

[Porsche9]

Got to go PDK if you have to go the auto route.

[black_box]

so what's wrong with your '03?

If it's the clutch, no big deal, replace it. Consumable item. No need to get rid of your car!

[Dave S.]

My wife is 5'2" and she can drive our 2003 Boxster (6 speed) no problem. I just had to show her how to adjust the seat height. It is not intuitive.

[Perfectlap]

Originally Posted by johnsimion

"Well kinda" is well said. Your existing car is dead and the car you are buying also has the IMS. Maybe not as risky, but it's still there. Hard to see that as much of a "win."

have to agree. At least before he had a serviceable bearing (no bearing lasts forever).
And with the new car he doesn't get the much improved "third Boxster generation" engine.

[Taipanic]

I was smart and got my girl her 98 Tip before I got my 2002 S. Unfortunately, I had to rebuilt the Tip six months after buying it - $3600.00 for that and IMS/RMS, which I thought was a good deal.
The Tip is OK but really geared for economy driving - starts in Second, short shifts ASAP to get to 5th. Even when driving aggressively, it is nowhere near as fun as a stick. It is good for being in traffic and in cruise mode.

[litespeedp]

She is going to be OK with your car after all.Seems that on my 2000 there is very hard to locate, small lever near the drivers left hip that will manually raise the seat.I found it by accident.Try this for her! Woo------- good save possibly.

[RBrummer]

Originally Posted by Taipanic

I was smart and got my girl her 98 Tip before I got my 2002 S. Unfortunately, I had to rebuilt the Tip six months after buying it - $3600.00 for that and IMS/RMS, which I thought was a good deal.
The Tip is OK but really geared for economy driving - starts in Second, short shifts ASAP to get to 5th. Even when driving aggressively, it is nowhere near as fun as a stick. It is good for being in traffic and in cruise mode.

I beg to differ
I keep my 2000 S Tip in manual mode 50% of the time and have a ball with it.

[Rob175]

I have a '98 Boxster (5 speed) with 74,000 miles. After reading the various posts about the IMS failures I contacted my independent Porsche shop that I've done some business with in the past to express my concerns about this issue. (btw...a very well run shop with a great reputation)

The owners told me to NOT be concerned. They have only seen a couple in all the years they've worked on Porsche Boxsters. They asked if there were any signs of oil on ground under the car. When told no oil is ever on the ground they suggested I bring the car in so they can put it on the lift to confirm there is no oil under the car and also listen to the bearing with a stethoscope.

I appreciate their expertise and their suggestions. They did say that they have seen a few more IMS failures on the 911's but as I wrote, they seldom have seen them on Boxters. It's somewhat curious that the Class Action Suit covers Porsche cars starting in 2001 instead of a few years earlier, like my '98. Perhaps that indicates that I'm somewhat out of danger.

[Perfectlap]

Originally Posted by Rob175

The owners told me to NOT be concerned. They have only seen a couple in all the years they've worked on Porsche Boxsters..
.

We yes you have dual row bearing and those last longer than single row bearings. So much so that they were left out of the IMS litigation and settlement that focused only on single row bearings cars (2001-2004).

But all bearings will eventually fail, and sooner than later if they are run with contaminated oil or are starved of oil. Your mechanic has seen very few IMS failures simply because for most owners these are not daily driven cars until the second or third owner comes along and starts ramping up the mileage faster.
The IMS bearing, dual or single row, should be replaced after a certain amount of mileage, the problem is no one knows this amount of mileage because it changes dramatically depending on the sort of driving you do, the oil you use and the frequency in which you change the oil. Some forum members here have put 30K miles a year on their cars for 10 straight years and are still on the same IMS bearing (although this particular owner maintained strict mainteance standards). While others have had failures at a fraction of that time with barely 1K miles per year.

A dual row bearing basically has a longer shelf life than a single row if both are equally absued over the same period of time.
But the root cause of the issue is still present (the fact that there is a sealed bearing in there at all). The best remedy is to remove the bearing completely with a no-bearing design alternative, replace it with a fresh bearing or replace it with a fresh bearing in combination with a direct oil feed modifcation. In the last four years on this and other forums since remedies became available, I can't remember a single person ever indicating they had a failure after one of these three things was performed.

[Rob175]

Great reply PerfectLap....thanks.

My Boxster is only driven on sunny Chicago summer days, never in the winter with road salt and snow so I only put about 5,500 miles a year on the car (I'm the second owner...I bought it with 29,000 miles already on it) ....as a matter of habit I change the oil every other year so it gets a fresh load of Mobile One every 10,000 miles.

I still think I may have my expert check out the bearing as best he can without pulling it.

[Steve Tinker]

Replacing the oil (and filter) every 2 years as you are currently doing is not the ideal way of prelonging the IMS bearing, whether its a single row or a double row design.
In a cold damp climate like you live in and driving only on "sunny Chicago summer days" it would be beneficial and well worth the $$ to replace the oil + filter at least annually.

[Perfectlap]

^ What he said.

Plus, road salt is not that big of a deal. These aren't old 911's, the Boxster can handle it easy.

If you have a heated garage, and at least all season tires, I would take it out on a mild, clear sunny winter day, during the warmest part of the day, and drive for an hour or so. Start out at low RPMs until all your coolant temp needle is pointing straight up and then keep the RPMS low a bit longer to let the oil temp catch up (or twice the amount of time it took the coolant to rise). Once the car is fully warmed up drive for at least 30 minutes taking the car higher up the rev band
(3K - 6K RPMs). Point is I would not let oil sit for too long in the car without at least giving the engine a chance to burn some of the crap out.
If you have a 2000-2004 I would look into putting in the IMS Guardian by LNE. When you replace the clutch, which may be a while with your currently low usage, simply put in a fresh new bearing. An oil analysis from Blackstone Labs would be a good idea too since you've kept oil in there for a very long time. When you change the oil , cut open the oil filter and check for anything that may be bigger than cracked pepercorn sized bits. Although the way the IMS bearing lets go it is highly unlikely that you will be changing your oil fliter at the exact moment of failure. The IMS bearing does not shed large bits like that over time, usually it happens quickly. Hence why the IMS Guardian could be a life-saver. That's a much better plan than hoping you catch it when you're changing the oil.
Although I think the best plan for a low mileage car is to simply swap out the clutch, even if prematurely, and use the cheaper Pelican bearing to keep costs down. Either way that single row bearing should come out at a regular interval just like your water pump. There's also a dual row bearing for single row bearing cars from LNE on the way, which I imagine have a much longer service interval than a Pelican single row bearing but will probably be priced accordingly. Either way, if your car has had a very small number of oil changes during its life or has sat for long periods, then you want to get a new bearing in there sooner than later.

[southernstar]

Perfectlap, I agree with everything you have said except with respect to the Pelican Parts replacement IMS bearing for a double-row engine. The Pelican 'upgraded steel bearing' turns a double-row into a single-row with spacers and, based upon everything we know about the advantages of the original dual-row bearings, I would be loathe to make that change!

Brad

[crod]

Originally Posted by Rob175

I have a '98 Boxster (5 speed) with 74,000 miles. After reading the various posts about the IMS failures I contacted my independent Porsche shop that I've done some business with in the past to express my concerns about this issue. (btw...a very well run shop with a great reputation)

The owners told me to NOT be concerned. They have only seen a couple in all the years they've worked on Porsche Boxsters. They asked if there were any signs of oil on ground under the car. When told no oil is ever on the ground they suggested I bring the car in so they can put it on the lift to confirm there is no oil under the car and also listen to the bearing with a stethoscope.

I appreciate their expertise and their suggestions. They did say that they have seen a few more IMS failures on the 911's but as I wrote, they seldom have seen them on Boxters. It's somewhat curious that the Class Action Suit covers Porsche cars starting in 2001 instead of a few years earlier, like my '98. Perhaps that indicates that I'm somewhat out of danger.

Many moons ago I posted a reply to an IMS thread showing all the production numbers (how many 986 Boxsters were produced since their debut) and that considering how many were known to have failed (reported) the numbers were more like 98.5% chances you will never have an IMS problem. Even lower. Of course no one has the real numbers, not even Porsche as many that have failed were probably junked and never reported. But for sure the numbers are very low considering how many were produced.

What I can tell you my own experience. Last year we rebuilt the engine on our 986S (I will update the thread I started - at the end it was nothing serious) and I got a new IMS bearing from LN. I will post pictures of the one I took of the car, at 56,000 miles. It looks new, no play anywhere, seal intact and so on. Could certainly have lived for another 50,000 miles.

The key thing is to simply add the IMS bearing as another maintenance item. Every time you do the clutch, throw in a new bearing. At $600 it is nothing compared to the peace of mind.

CR