Please help me in making an educated choice
 

Hi guys,

I had posted here a few months back about a buying a 2004 Boxster S and had a ton of help from you guys in the process (tip of hat to Tom, Ray, Randall and PerfectLap). Unfortunately that didn't work out at the time and I'm back again looking for Boxsters! I have zeroed in on a couple cars and would appreciate your advice on this based on your experience.

The first car is a 2006 Boxster S with 10K miles, single owner, manual transmission with regular maintenance records and standard equipment. Private seller asking for 30,000.

The second car is a 2011 Boxster base with 10k miles, single owner, PDK transmission, Navigation and a clean carfax. Dealer asking 35,000.

I would love to have the Boxster S for the power and the price, but the base model is 5 years younger and slightly better optioned. I'm a little torn and would real like to hear from you guys - which one would you choose if your were in my shoes and why?

Cheers,
AJR

Hey AJR I personally would look for a manual transmission just because the drive is a bit more fun. Then agin the PDK is very good. Looking at the price have you considered financing the 981 base model. Brand new car, lots of power, and great looks.

But if your choice is limited to one of these two I would look at the warranty that the dealer is giving you, and if your okay with a PDK, the car is much younger. To be 100% honest what would hold me back is the transmission. When I set out to buy a car I wanted a manual because its more eventful (not so much in traffic).

IF the trans in not an issue then for $35k I would go with the younger car with warranty. If you don't like it then the resale value will be higher for the younger car if Im not mistaken. Hope this helped.

Thanks for the response Bmod! I love manual transmissions too. During my test drive I wasn't too confident on the PDK so I just drove it in the Auto mode and I didn't really get a feel for how the gear changing in PDK feels. I have read some good things about the PDK but would love the opinion of the people on the forum who use it regularly. Also my girl doesn't like driving a manual. :>) To remain unbiased, I was going to give the transmission a neutral weight-age.

I don't plan on financing the car, so a new one would be stretching my finances a little thin to pay in cash. I have optioned new cars on Porsche website a few dozen times but by the time I'm done, the minimum it comes up to is mid sixties and on the high end I reach to upper eighties. Add about 10% in taxes and registrations - I'm looking at 70K at the least.

The warranty on the 2011 is valid till late 2015 or 50K miles whichever is earlier. The dealer is pitching to up the mileage to 100K as part of the sale which doesn't matter to me. I don't see myself racking up 40K miles in 2 years let alone 90K. Your point is well taken on age of the car though.

The one thing I didn't mention in my original post is also the IMS concern on the 2006. I have read a lot about the IMS issues on this forum and understand that the chances of it happening are very low, I still mark it as a negative for the 2006 model vs the 2011 model.

Thanks again for your thoughts.

~AJR

Extended Warranty = 6 years or 100K miles. Push for more time too.

The PDK far exceeded my expectations. Drive it and decide. A very high percentage of new Porsches come with the PDK. I would get the new one if the PDK is acceptable. Only you can decide that with seat time (hint - with the PDK, the choice of steering wheel paddles matter too).


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FatMike makes a real good point. If you do get the PDK make sure it has the nice paddle steering wheel as it enhances the drive dramatically and ascetics. I don't like the pushbutton on the steering wheel for shifting, it feels unnatural. Also PDK shifts insanely fast.

Always go for the newest car you can afford. getting a 2011 with 100k mile warranty for $5k more is very attractive.
The 2011 has the DFI engine w/o IMS issues and better gas mielage.
It's a much more modern car
I personally loooooove my PDK and yes I swapped the pushbutton wheel for a paddle steering wheel. That's $1,000 DIY job

I'd go for the 2011 model w/o a doubt

I'd never buy any Porsche with an automatic. In my mind it goes contrary to everything a Porsche stands for. The only exception would be if you have leg or back problems and find a clutch too much trouble or pain.

Horse power on both cars should be about the same isn't it? Cant recall but I would definately go witht the newer car. 2011 over any of the older Ims cars is a no brainer. Manual is something that comes down to preference which wouldn't matter on any price for me. Barring that 2011 all day.

Thanks Mike (feels abusive calling a nice man fat). I will push for the extended warranty. I didn't know about the paddles - I will make sure to get them if I go with the car. I plan on getting another test drive this weekend on the PDK.

~AJR

I had not read about the paddle shifts. It goes on my must have if I get the PDK. Thanks again!

~AJR

Thanks Chris! There seems to be a consensus about buying the newest car possible. The only reservation so far in the responses has been the transmission manual vs PDK. I will be sure to get the paddle steering wheel if I go with the PDK.

~AJR

Thanks Schnellman! Those were my sentiments for the longest time. Fortunately I don't have any leg or back problems but I'm afraid the missus might make sure I have them in the near future. :<(

Thanks RP! Its 280 horses vs 255. Approximately 10% difference. I can actually live with the lower hp as I'm not planning on drag racing or burning rubber. I dream about driving a Boxster through the mountains in the Pacific Northwest. :>)

~AJR

I'd pick the pdk every time. On my second car with the pdk and think it's great. Having driven a manual, I still do not get the obsession. Having said that, I:

1. Go to the grocery store for my food -- I don't grow or hunt it.
2. Use a computer/iPad/smart phone for "texting and typing" rather than going up to each person individually and "speaking to them" or grabbing a pencil and writing a letter.
3. Buy homes that have already been built, rather than building it myself (I'm not one for felling trees for lumber).
4. Can't stand fried-egg headlights. Are you still wearing something from 9 years ago? Using a TV from 9 years ago? A TRS-80, maybe, for the feel of vintage? Not me, but that's my bias. Good luck!

It is a personal preference. We live in a time where most cars are automatic and sometimes its good to break away from that and do some shifting with a clutch. Its not to feel vintage or remember the old days but its more of a satisfaction of giving proper shifts and making decisions yourself rather then having a computer cut in so that your car won't blow. Its a connection between you and your car.

I also have driven the 991s with a PDK and sport exhaust. Awesome car, visceral noise, great time, and lighting fast shifts. Had the flappy paddles which added to the fun. I loved the PDK but I still like to shift with a clutch.

With that said I have two SUVs with auto trans in my home so I can always take a break from shifting.

"Also I do have a tv that is 8 years old and still use it. New TVs are expensive I have a boxster to maintain" hahaha.

I'd go with the newer car. At $5k diff you get the 5 year newer car, no IMS to worry about and a better warranty it is a no brainer. PDK vs manual is a personal preference mine being a manual if it is a sports car but I totally get the appeal of a dual clutch automated manual. It is an awesome transmission and light years ahead of the old tiptronic transmission.

Personally I haven't driven one with a PDK, but I own one with a TIP. I drove several preowned with sticks from 99 to 05 and they all seemed very stiff with the clutches engaging high up on the peddle. When I drove the TIP I found both worlds, auto and manual, and I do love the thumb switches on the steering wheel. Plus I can still shift using them while in auto mode. Go for the PDK.:cool:

Hi CFOS,

Thanks for your thoughts. I read your response last night and had a chuckle but I wanted to be more sober when I responded.

I'm with you on 1 and 3 absolutely. As for your point 2, I do use "texting and typing", but also appreciate the physical aspect of social interaction. I like to see my nieces, nephews and friends in person or talk on the phone rather than just through electronic communication. On point 4, I agree with you for the most part - with just the emphasis on the fact that I don't change my phone every year for the latest and greatest in evolutionary changes. I prefer to wait for revolutionary changes or for something which is productive. I like change but not just for the sake of change.

I'm going to be driving the car again tomorrow and I really want to like the PDK.:>) Give me a few more years to be wiser than I'm and be on the same plain as you. :>)

~AJR

Thanks P9! I'm trying to further negotiate to see if I can get an extended warranty or even get them to lower the price a bit.

~AJR

Thank JCB! I hope I don't chicken out this time around. :>) I have a little regret about letting go the car I had test driven back in July.

~AJR

Here is something you can look at.

http://986forum.com/forums/general-discussions/49535-2000-boxster-s-first-car.html

I posted some Boxsters in Orlando for sale.

Thanks JCB! I'm in Seattle. Maybe you want me to fly down to Florida to buy a car and drive it all the way back to Washington! :>) I actually like the idea.

When I first started looking at boxsters a few months ago, I was thinking about getting a low mileage well maintained car between 2000 and 2005. But after pricing a few of the good ones and taking into account the IMS solution, possibly a new water pump, Oxygen sensors etc., the better cars were coming to around 20,000 to 30,000. Spending a little more and avoiding those expenses for a much newer car seems to be making sense, even if I have to wait a little longer. :>)

Look, I personally think the IMS is way over stated. Look, my ride has 76k on it and the only thing that I personally did do myself was an axle seal on the final drive side. The rest is fairly easy stuff. I know when it hits 100k, I will need to put a chunk of change in it, most likely I will buy another one though. If you can get a good buy on a fairly new model, I would do it. Good luck.

Thanks JCB. I hear you about the IMS issue not being as big statistically as it is made out to be. If you look at my original post, I did not take it into my grading of the two cars at first. But I respect and appreciate the input of people who think otherwise - I've never owned one of these and will value input even if its contradictory to my understanding. :) Please keep up the good job of giving honest opinions. It's appreciated.

~AJR

If you intend to own a Porsche well past the warranty, always go for the manual.

AJR,

If I were shopping for an 82 911sc I would only choose a stick.

Shopping for a 2011 Boxster? Pounce on the PDK... It is that good and $35K sounds pretty sweet.

:cheers:

^ $35K for 2011 DFI with only 10K miles? sounds like a typo somewhere.

Be SURE that you want an automatic before you buy a PDK...

Hi Perfectlap,

Could you please elaborate your views on the durability of the PDK? I have spoken to a few Tiptronic owners and all of them loved it - I assume these are people who prefer automatic transmissions. I have briefly read about the issues and the cost associated with replacing/repairing the PDK. I would be thankful if you would share your wisdom on it.

I rounded the figure down - its 35,500 but I'm hoping to nail it at 35 even and the mileage is 8,450. The only notable options I could see were PDK and Navigation. But I thought it was the perfect car for me. :>)

~AJR

Thanks Topless! This is the first time I have seen a car where the price is under NADA, KBB and Edmunds estimates. Most cars I have looked at in past 6 months would have two or all three of the estimates much lower than the quoted price by the seller.

Sorry about this rant but sometimes private sellers seem to be in denial about depreciation and what the car is worth 5 years after being driven of the lot. I can't count the number of ads which claim "only model in North America with so and so option..." or "the best optioned Porsche stateside...". The first four or five months of my search, I was only focused on private sellers - I'm not really sure a lot of them end up selling cars at what they expect. There have been a few cars listed on Autotrader for many months. In the last couple months I figured I would start looking at dealers as well. It's been a surprising pleasant experience so far. Hope it ends on a pleasant note as well.

~AJR

Hi Tom! This is a difficult one - I loved driving the manual Boxsters which I have test driven, the PDK was a little different as I was too conscious about it and trying to hard. It wasn't a bad feeling but I'm sure I will take time to develop a liking or to dislike it. Having said that, I most certainly would get Brownie points from the missus for having an Auto. I will decide on this soon.

One of the things I have failed to do in my due diligence is to read up and understand the shortcomings of the PDK apart from the experience factor. I read a couple posts on the forum about how it is very expensive to fix or replace but I haven't figured out the durability of the parts. I would appreciate if you would share your views on it. I have my Wednesday afternoon blocked for reading up on this. :>)

Thanks again for your time!

~AJR

Well I haven't spoken to anyone that even knows how to fix a PDK transmission.
It's a whole new ball game -- one I wouldn't touch with a 100 foot pole out of warranty. If you go for one, make sure you negotiate a FACTORY warranty extension (as in any other kind of warranty is a no go). I can't even imagine what a PDK repair would run at a dealership. I was quoted nearly $12K just for clutch and shocks on year, and those are easy repairs. For a very labor-intensive repair, I doubt any experienced independent specialist is going to dive into one of these without giving you quiet a bill. And you certainly don't want any non-experienced mechanic in there.
Which all ends up sounding like a situation where you just buy a whole new reman unit from Porsche... $$$$. Most don't worry about this because, as with the Tiptronics, the owner is usually out of the car by the time these issues come up. But the old school Porsche autos are a known quantity at this point. The PDKs are only now coming out of warranty so we'll see... Unless you really hate rowing gears I'd keep it simple. Which also happens to be the more fun way to drive (out of warranty).
In warranty those matched downshifts in Speed Racer mode are violently cool. Just don't give me the bill when that wear adds up.

Careful now, of all the forums I've been too, this is one of the few (BMW forums excluded ;)) that feel their cars appreciate in value. Anyway, for your investigative nature, I often rely on Rennlist: http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforums/997-forum/458591-pdk-clutch-replacement-costs-maybe-5000-6000-15-000-miles-3.html

I also go to Planet-9, on occasion. Here is what they had to say:
http://www.planet-9.com/987-cayman-boxster-service-tech/51264-official-facts-regarding-pdk.html
http://www.planet-9.com/987-cayman-boxster-chat/47193-pdk-durability.html

I guess, I fall into the camp of -- Do I really expect to have a completely worry free car for my entire life? No. Is it likely that something will happen to the pdk that causes the NYSE, NASDAQ, and the Nikkei to plunge? Or a Walking Dead Scenario where we worry about what the Governor is up to? Well, do a search on "cost of pdk repair" on Google and see if you get any results. ;) My guess is there is plenty more on the Governor.