Poll: What to do with my '99 986: Upgrade, Modify, or get a 911?

[RaisedOnPorsches]

Hey folks,

I haven't posted much in a while, but I've been keeping an eye on the forum for years. Anyhow, I have a 1999 986 Arctic Silver/Boxster Red with about 80k on it now. I purchased it five years ago with 25k and used it as a daily driver since. In general I love the car and I've spent a fair amount to maintain it. During these five years I've replaced the AOS, coolant reservoir, waterpump, clutch, RMS, window regulators, and brake pads/rotors. I also had the LN engineering IMS retrofit installed, as well as a LN engineering low temp. thermostat and a Boxster S oil cooler. So I've put some $$$ and TLC into maintaining her. I've kept her 100% stock partially to preserve value and partially because I haven't had much extra spending cash to let me get carried away. Not even a short shifter kit yet...

With that said, I still have some items that need attention. The front fender is looking pretty ugly after many parking lots and sloped street-side SF parking jobs. The rear fender recently gained some scratches as well from someone grazing it in a parking lot. The plastic window on my top is starting to look a big ugly too (it is still the original top). I'm told its time for a new motor mount and I know there is some plastic under-paneling that needs replacing too. The suspension is probably getting tired too.

What brings me to the point of this thread is I've recently had the good fortune of moving a lot closer to where I work and earning a couple significant raises. I'm itching to do something automotive with my extra income. I'm also a bit afraid of putting much more money into my '99 because it certainly isn't going to appreciate much anytime soon.

So here are the options I'm considering:

1. Sell my '99 Boxster and upgrade to a new one, probably a 2004 SE 550. The only 987 I'd consider buying is the Spyder and it is a bit beyond my pay scale still.
   
2. Upgrade my '99 with a new front bumper cover, restore or repair the rear cover, have some fun with aftermarket upgrades such as short shifters, exhaust, etc. If I do this I know I wont get my money out if I resell it, so I'd just plan to keep her around for a good long while.
   
3. Sell my '99 Boxster and give a 911 a try. I'd probably look for one $35k or less, and I'd certainly need to take a loan out to help finance it. Possibly an 80s carrera or a rarer earlier model? I don't have much interest in the 996s and I think the 993s are beyond my price range. This route appeals in part because these cars would likely hold their value or appreciate some, plus they're Porsche 911s...

---------------------------

So what are folks thoughts? Would the difference between a '99 Boxster and the 2004 Boxster S SE 550 be dramatic enough? Would it just end up regretting the aftermarket mods and their expenses? Is it time to bravely jump into the rear-engine world? Any constructive feedback is welcome.

Thanks,
-Jeremy

Here are a couple of photos of her with about 50k miles less on her:

[oc-boxster]

I say go drive several examples of all your considerations. Test drive a few 911's and a few newer boxsters including newer base and S models. Keep in mind any older 911 without great service records can be a money pit you will regret.

[Perfectlap]

lf you want work horse Carrera, I would look at a 2002 996S, enthusiast-owned with lots of the same repairs already completed. Drive that until the Boxster Spyder prices come down some. as for the leaky cars , the 964 is the best Carrera value while still being a non-antique modern Porsche. But your mileage is too high for the old stuff unless you have a lift.

Me personally, I'd get an FRS for daily driving, sell the Boxster and get the 964 as a weekender.

[RaisedOnPorsches]

Thanks for the replies so far. Test drives are certainly a must.

As a little bit more info, my move reduced my 50 mile roundtrip commute down to 7 miles. I expect to put less than 5k annually on my car now (whatever car that ends up being). I'm not crazy about going the two car route, but it is a possibility.

[Nine8Six]

Originally Posted by RaisedOnPorsches

Test drives are certainly a must.

ehhh NOPE! Don't do that. I get to drive a lot of supercars incl the Pcars. And every single time I get to do so, I simply want to buy the car. ALL

I'd stay right where you are atm and keep looking at it from a spending perspective. Much smarter and mature

[fatmike]

964 values have shot up recently. They have closed the gap to the 993, which makes the 993 the better choice (in my opinion).

You will spend $5-$8K on a buying a "new" to you old Porsche to bring it to standard. Factor that in. You'll spend money in places on the 993 that you take for granted with your Boxster (headlights, suspension, etc.).

The Boxster S is by far the best value of all of them (expect maybe a 1999 - 2004 era 911).

Best advise - stay put and save some cash and maybe invest it (it's OK, your allowed).



ALSO - I am not trolling, but my 5 year old is looking over my shoulder and wants the troll: :troll:


/

[coreseller]

Originally Posted by fatmike

964 values have shot up recently. They have closed the gap to the 993, which makes the 993 the better choice (in my opinion).

You will spend $5-$8K on a buying a "new" to you old Porsche to bring it to standard. Factor that in. You'll spend money in places on the 993 that you take for granted with your Boxster (headlights, suspension, etc.).

The Boxster S is by far the best value of all of them (expect maybe a 1999 - 2004 era 911).

Best advise - stay put and save some cash and maybe invest it (it's OK, your allowed).



ALSO - I am not trolling, but my 5 year old is looking over my shoulder and wants the troll: :troll:


/

This. Unless you stumble into a heckuva deal with updates already performed (Fatmike was close; $3k for suspension if you DIY, toss in $2k for misc items) a 964 or 993 won't be "a bargain". 964's are still less money but there's a reason 993's cost more, they're cooler . It's your money / car, buy the one you like best.

Air Cooled Cars; Upside is obviously residual value, most likely to continue appreciating while water cooled P-Cars will continue to drop like rocks in comparison.

My 2 takes;

-Don't unnecessarily sink more money into a depreciating car.
-Don't take out a loan for a toy.

Easy to state the above, I wish I would of followed that advice myself years back and invested more instead.

[evomind]

Originally Posted by Nine8Six

ehhh NOPE! Don't do that. I get to drive a lot of supercars incl the Pcars. And every single time I get to do so, I simply want to buy the car. ALL

I'd stay right where you are atm and keep looking at it from a spending perspective. Much smarter and mature

Ha, that's why I never test drive cars I cant afford!

[Porsche9]

I had a 964 for years before I had to sell it to fit my family needs. With the family grown I am now back in a Pcar again and I am very happy about that. The 964 and in my case a 2002 Boxster S are completely different experiences. Where I completely enjoy the S I loved driving the 964 (people would comment on the car all the time). I to this day regret selling it and it is the only car I every regret selling. The air cooled engine, the iconic shape, interior build quality just don't compare. When I sold it after 5 yeas I got more then I had paid for it and today it would cost another $10k. If you can afford the upfront cost of the 993 then go for it. It will be a investment that you can enjoy every day. The Boxster at least for know will continue to depreciate and have similar running costs. The Boxster may one day go up in value but I think it will be at least another 15 years and it will never be a air cooled 911.

[Timco]

FWIW, I love my 550 SE!!

Great car, great year, great power. The perfect blend.

How fortunate was I to walk onto that car lot?????? It wasn't even listed yet!

[Perfectlap]

Oh if only 5k miles a year then I think you should jump on the 964, maybe backdate it or try strip it down like an RS. The 993's are nice but personally I find the 964 to have more feedback and aren't as mushy. I sat in an 964 RSA recently and its hard to even think that this car is the same model as a 997/997. It fit like a glove.

I guess the choice you need to make is do you want a car you'll keep for the long-haul or one that you'll be swapping out every three years. If you want a long-haul car I think the 964 is the ticket. If you want a short term car I'd look at the 2002 996S and test out rear engine while the Boxster Spyder comes down. Those last two cars will do nothing but lose value while the 964 will be like driving your savings account, provided that you find a well-sorted one. But I would still look into a beater car to cut down the daily mileage. Maybe Mini Cooper, S2000 or FRS.

[RaisedOnPorsches]

Alright, so I'm back to waffling on this topic. I've spotted two alternate cars that are luring me in.
1) A 2004 Boxster SE550 for a very reasonable price (under $20k, manual transmission with 110k miles and one owner).
2) A very nice 993 Cabriolet (under $40k, 40k miles and several meticulous owners).

Option 1 appeals because I could probably sell off my '99 and all my extras (hard top, extra wheels, short shifter, etc.) to cover the majority of the cost. I'd gain over 60hp and all the improvements over the course of the 986 evolution. My factory car cover, roof transport system, and speedster humps would still fit it too. (So would the hard top, but I'd doubt I'd ever use it with a glass window soft top.) The SE would also hold is value more than my current Boxster would.

Option 2 appeals because the car is just so sexy. My dad had a silver 993 back in the day, and I've been pissed with him for years now for selling it rather than gifting it to me. The silver exterior and red interior just looks so great on a Porsche too. This 993 cab has low mileage, upgraded litronics, a new soft top, and appears to be impecable condition. It will hold its value or appreciate well. And those rear seats might prove useful one-day (briefly).

Option 2 would require $20,000 more. I'd have to finance it for sure. I'd probably finance Option 1 too, just so I wont feel pressured to sell my current Boxster too quickly and too cheaply. Either vehicle would require a quick plane flight to the seller and a scenic, coastal roadtrip home.

Thoughts? Fatmike, you made the 986 to 993 transition. Any regrets? I realize these models are a bit of an apples to oranges comparison.

As stated before, I primarily use my Boxster as a daily driver and for weekend get-a-ways and road trips. I haven't gotten sucked into the AX/DE world somehow...yet. I'm not opposed to picking up a cheap beater for my daily driving (like an e30 BMW), if I wind-up with an 'investment' car like the 993.

[Ckrikos]

Did you ever consider a 996 Turbo? I test drove one and now must get one. They are in the low 40 range for a nice model with low miles. Most of these have low miles as owners tended not to drive them much, plus they are very reliable. I can't see them dropping below $30k and they may have already hit a bottom of $36k for high mileage examples. I'm also considering a 996 3.4 preferably a 99 with 50k miles from an enthusiast. My thoughts are that this car will have the dual row IMS bearing. Will allow me to transfer my gt3 bumper, 18" wheels, headlights, nav system, etc (from boxster) and get more hp and the back seats I have been looking for. I figure with 50k miles you don't need to worry about d chunk or engine porosity as that would have already occurred. Finally the best part is that this car can be had for $18k. After selling your boxster you would be looking at $8-10k.

I would miss mine though.

[RaisedOnPorsches]

Ckrikos, good points. The basic 996s don't appeal to me. They are too shark-like and too much of a departure from the 911 style in my opinion. They are incredibly cheap right now thought.

I have been eyeing a few 996 Turbos however. I definitely like the styling of the Turbo, and the performance wouldn't be bad either.

I am a little worried about how much the maintenance costs would increase going from a Boxster to be Turbo. I'm sure the newer (water-cooled) Turbos are far less temperamental than the air-cooled ones though. The gas mileage on the turbos aren't so hot either (~16 mpg). They are very sexy though. I'm not sure if I'd lean towards a coupe or cab Turbo.

Here are too very nice 996TTs that I've been eyeing (both ~$40k):

2003 with TechArt styling and upgrades

2001 with GT2 wing and upgraded wheels

[Ckrikos]

I would not buy a modified turbo although they can take upto 650hp and remain reliable, I view these cars as worn likely abused. Keep in mind with tuning and extra power the drive train will be worn much more. A turbo with 88k miles should be below $40k. Ca has many nice cars on auto trader. I have been researching turbos for a few weeks as I am considering picking one up during bonus time.

[Perfectlap]

Originally Posted by Ckrikos

I would not buy a modified turbo although they can take upto 650hp and remain reliable, I view these cars as worn likely abused. Keep in mind with tuning and extra power the drive train will be worn much more. A turbo with 88k miles should be below $40k. Ca has many nice cars on auto trader. I have been researching turbos for a few weeks as I am considering picking one up during bonus time.

Last I checked I saw more than few 996 Turbo in the mid $30K's with mileage nowhere near 90K. PRISTINE interiors. And that's on Autotrader where cars are always on the expensive side.

I spoke to my mechanic about buying one of these and he straight up warned me about the higher maintenance costs. He knows I'm becoming leary of expensive repairs after spending about $12K since my Boxster hit 70K miles.

[RaisedOnPorsches]

Perfectlap, you make some excellent points regarding the air-cooled/waterc-cooled resale divide. I agree the production numbers are simply too high for all of the water-cooled models to make them worth much 5-10 years from now or beyond. This is part of why I keep looking at the SE550, but it will probably be the 986 that depreciates the least overtime. That said, beyond the cosmetic details, there is little different between a SE550 and a 2004 S. The limited production models that are actually worth something more than the standard variety are the ones that have significant performance advantages or some especially quirky history.

The SE550 that I mentioned earlier with 110k miles is selling for $15k, which is a mighty fine price. Still I wonder after financing its purchase, selling my '99, getting iPhone functionality setup on the SE550 BOSE system, and whatever other hidden repairs there might be, if I'd come out ahead. Would I just be better off putting the money into new/performance upgrades on the '99. At this point, I've replaced so many of the 'aging' components. With that SE550 there is little in repair records for me to inform my decision by.

The 996 Turbos are beautiful cars, but I think with their maintenance, tire costs, and fuel economy, they'd have to be relegated to Sunday driver/garage queen status as well. The non-Turbo 996s just don't do it for me. I don't know that I'd feel much of a performance gain over my 986, even if I am driving the runt of the litter engine-displacement-wise.

All this continues to make my head spin.


One last thought/question. One aspect that I really have enjoyed about my '99 986 is how easy it has been for me to do my own repair work (not all the time, but as I like). Being a mid-engine Porsche I initially expect my Boxster to be near impossible for me to work on without a proper mechanics shop.

I wonder how much of this would hold true with the various models being discussed here. Are 993s, 996s, 996TTs, or even '80s Carreras considerably harder or easier to work on than a 986? How do costs of repairs compare? I'll have to chat with my mechanic more on this too.

[Perfectlap]

Yikes I'm not sure I'd pay $15K for a Boxster with 110K miles unless like my car it came with a file folder full of receipts for major maintenance repairs. I tell people these cars are reliable but they are definitely not durable. Some people think they can wrench away all those bills but I recall one invoice nearing $5K and only about a quarter of it was actual labor. Parts for these cars are not cheap by any means. And the higher up you go in the Porsche line up the truer that is.
Also, the 550 is very nice looking car and buying one second hand might have saved me quiet a few pennies on upgrades but at the end of the day the only 'special edition' Porsches that really hold value are those with limited production engines. Porsche love to max out options on Boxsters/Caymans and Carreras to slather the sticker with big mark ups. The 50th Anniversary 911 is one of the more egregious examples of this, almost putting you at the doorstep of 991 GT3 pricing, but at the end of the day a Porsche derives nearly all of its value from the engine. All other acoutrements hold little value once the engine mileage shoots north. Or a buyer without much knowledge lands in a seller's lap.

[jacabean]

The SE550 is not really all that special . That car is no big deal . they fetch the most dollars for the 986 cars though . If i where you i would take another look at the 996 cars . they are such a bargain , drive great and feel more substantial than a boxster . especially if your coming from a base boxster the 3.4 911 will feel like a rocket ship . I put almost 4k on my 01 cab 911 in 3 months , that is usually what I put on my boxster S in a whole year . I love driving it and i am really bummed that winter is here.

[Ckrikos]

turbos drop below 30k if they are auto or have a bit of mileage. I worry about repairs too, but figure paying a little more for less mileage and no mods will go a long way in terms of reliability.