Poll: What to do with my '99 986: Upgrade, Modify, or get a 911?
 

Hey folks,

I haven't posted much in a while, but I've been keeping an eye on the forum for years. Anyhow, I have a 1999 986 Arctic Silver/Boxster Red with about 80k on it now. I purchased it five years ago with 25k and used it as a daily driver since. In general I love the car and I've spent a fair amount to maintain it. During these five years I've replaced the AOS, coolant reservoir, waterpump, clutch, RMS, window regulators, and brake pads/rotors. I also had the LN engineering IMS retrofit installed, as well as a LN engineering low temp. thermostat and a Boxster S oil cooler. So I've put some $$$ and TLC into maintaining her. I've kept her 100% stock partially to preserve value and partially because I haven't had much extra spending cash to let me get carried away. Not even a short shifter kit yet...

With that said, I still have some items that need attention. The front fender is looking pretty ugly after many parking lots and sloped street-side SF parking jobs. The rear fender recently gained some scratches as well from someone grazing it in a parking lot. The plastic window on my top is starting to look a big ugly too (it is still the original top). I'm told its time for a new motor mount and I know there is some plastic under-paneling that needs replacing too. The suspension is probably getting tired too.

What brings me to the point of this thread is I've recently had the good fortune of moving a lot closer to where I work and earning a couple significant raises. I'm itching to do something automotive with my extra income. I'm also a bit afraid of putting much more money into my '99 because it certainly isn't going to appreciate much anytime soon.

So here are the options I'm considering:

1. Sell my '99 Boxster and upgrade to a new one, probably a 2004 SE 550. The only 987 I'd consider buying is the Spyder and it is a bit beyond my pay scale still.
   
2. Upgrade my '99 with a new front bumper cover, restore or repair the rear cover, have some fun with aftermarket upgrades such as short shifters, exhaust, etc. If I do this I know I wont get my money out if I resell it, so I'd just plan to keep her around for a good long while.
   
3. Sell my '99 Boxster and give a 911 a try. I'd probably look for one $35k or less, and I'd certainly need to take a loan out to help finance it. Possibly an 80s carrera or a rarer earlier model? I don't have much interest in the 996s and I think the 993s are beyond my price range. This route appeals in part because these cars would likely hold their value or appreciate some, plus they're Porsche 911s...

---------------------------

So what are folks thoughts? Would the difference between a '99 Boxster and the 2004 Boxster S SE 550 be dramatic enough? Would it just end up regretting the aftermarket mods and their expenses? Is it time to bravely jump into the rear-engine world? Any constructive feedback is welcome.

Thanks,
-Jeremy

Here are a couple of photos of her with about 50k miles less on her:
http://986forum.com/forums/uploads01...1383630794.jpg
http://986forum.com/forums/uploads01...1383630809.jpg

I say go drive several examples of all your considerations. Test drive a few 911's and a few newer boxsters including newer base and S models. Keep in mind any older 911 without great service records can be a money pit you will regret.

lf you want work horse Carrera, I would look at a 2002 996S, enthusiast-owned with lots of the same repairs already completed. Drive that until the Boxster Spyder prices come down some. as for the leaky cars , the 964 is the best Carrera value while still being a non-antique modern Porsche. But your mileage is too high for the old stuff unless you have a lift.

Me personally, I'd get an FRS for daily driving, sell the Boxster and get the 964 as a weekender.

Thanks for the replies so far. Test drives are certainly a must.

As a little bit more info, my move reduced my 50 mile roundtrip commute down to 7 miles. I expect to put less than 5k annually on my car now (whatever car that ends up being). I'm not crazy about going the two car route, but it is a possibility.

ehhh NOPE! Don't do that. I get to drive a lot of supercars incl the Pcars. And every single time I get to do so, I simply want to buy the car. ALL

I'd stay right where you are atm and keep looking at it from a spending perspective. Much smarter and mature ;)

964 values have shot up recently. They have closed the gap to the 993, which makes the 993 the better choice (in my opinion).

You will spend $5-$8K on a buying a "new" to you old Porsche to bring it to standard. Factor that in. You'll spend money in places on the 993 that you take for granted with your Boxster (headlights, suspension, etc.).

The Boxster S is by far the best value of all of them (expect maybe a 1999 - 2004 era 911).

Best advise - stay put and save some cash and maybe invest it (it's OK, your allowed).



ALSO - I am not trolling, but my 5 year old is looking over my shoulder and wants the troll: :troll:


/

FWIW, I love my 550 SE!!

Great car, great year, great power. The perfect blend.

How fortunate was I to walk onto that car lot?????? It wasn't even listed yet!

Oh if only 5k miles a year then I think you should jump on the 964, maybe backdate it or try strip it down like an RS. The 993's are nice but personally I find the 964 to have more feedback and aren't as mushy. I sat in an 964 RSA recently and its hard to even think that this car is the same model as a 997/997. It fit like a glove.

I guess the choice you need to make is do you want a car you'll keep for the long-haul or one that you'll be swapping out every three years. If you want a long-haul car I think the 964 is the ticket. If you want a short term car I'd look at the 2002 996S and test out rear engine while the Boxster Spyder comes down. Those last two cars will do nothing but lose value while the 964 will be like driving your savings account, provided that you find a well-sorted one. But I would still look into a beater car to cut down the daily mileage. Maybe Mini Cooper, S2000 or FRS.

This. Unless you stumble into a heckuva deal with updates already performed (Fatmike was close; $3k for suspension if you DIY, toss in $2k for misc items) a 964 or 993 won't be "a bargain". 964's are still less money but there's a reason 993's cost more, they're cooler ;). It's your money / car, buy the one you like best.

Air Cooled Cars; Upside is obviously residual value, most likely to continue appreciating while water cooled P-Cars will continue to drop like rocks in comparison.

My 2 takes;

-Don't unnecessarily sink more money into a depreciating car.
-Don't take out a loan for a toy.

Easy to state the above, I wish I would of followed that advice myself years back and invested more instead. :)

Just remembered this, it may be interesting to the OP'er:

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/-V72GmoZRss?feature=player_detailpage" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Thanks for the feedback everyone. I think I'm going to follow several individuals' advice to stay with the Boxster, minimize spending on mods, and avoid test driving any particularly tempting Porsches. I definitely don't want to sink money into a depreciating car with unnecessary mods. I also don't really want to take on some extra loan payments right now either. I'll focus on saving up for the right Porsche that may come my way in the future.

That said, I did just get an Agency Power short-shifter and shifter linkage for cheap on Craigslist so I'll see how transformational that mod is to my driving experience. I also have a set of 18" Carrera Lightweights with Boxster specs that need refinishing. I might finally get around to swapping those on in place of my 17" twists.

Thanks again folks. Keep on Boxstering.

I think you have made a wise choice. That said, it does not mean you cannot pursue some cool DIY projects that do not cost much. A heckuva way to learn more about your Boxster not to mention ad skills to your future car resume:

101 Projects for Your Porsche Boxster (Motorbooks Workshop): Wayne R. Dempsey: 9780760335543: Amazon.com: Books

If you're happy with your current boxster, then it makes to sense to keep it. Especially in the view of the fact - that you've already addressed many of the mechanical concerns that plague the M96 motor. However, aside from some slight mods and tending to the cosmetic issues that you've identified - leave it alone and enjoy it.

Keep your dependable daily driver!
Remember 911 parts are more expensive, and you will be replacing 'worn and torn' parts on your 'new' 911 to get it as good as your Boxster was.
You lose in the end, plus your not used to braking prior to the curve to get the heavy rear-end to follow. 'You can always paint it a different color? BAM! new. :cheers:

Cars are just tools.

Is your Boxster still the right tool for the job? If yes, refresh the little deferred maintenance issues and drive the wheels off it. Fresh suspension, new glass window top, new motor mount, and re-spray the nose and tail will be around $4k and the car will be in excellent condition again. If canyon carving in Norcal is your joy, you already own one of the best. If you are looking for more of a GT car experience, sell the Box and find a cherry 911. Life is too short to drive around in a car that no longer meets your needs.

Regarding the 911 it is not a Boxster. It does not handle like a Boxster, it feels GT like. The only plus I see with a 911 is the occasional back seats. Expenses of running are higher.

I was contemplating an older Cayman and my wife who has more practical sense than I have says: we are just starting winter and you want to get a car that would likely need more work and money spent on it.

Of course you are the one making the decision but sometimes you don't know what you have got till it has gone. Don't sell your Box and have regrets but on the other hand life is short!

Thanks again for the recommendations. I spent today driving my Boxster down to Hayward to visit Parts Heaven. I didn't go on a huge shopping spree, but I bought several parts that are necessary to remedy a few neglected repairs that have been bugging me for a while. (Replacing my workout fender liner, new shocks for the front hood, a new airbag mounting bracket so my horn wont honk at every pothole that I come across). I got the replacement liner on today. Tomorrow or Monday I'll get the other two repairs done and possibly drop in the short-shifter.

Its been a while since I've had the time and space to do my own repair work. I've been throwing a lot of money towards my new mechanic (with a higher hourly rate than my old mechanic, thanks to moving). It is easy to forget how satisfying it is to work your own car.

My first car was a vintage VW Beetle so I have some experience driving with a rear-engine configuration. Granted dinky 4-cylinder VW cannot compare with a Porsche 6-cylinder, but I did gain an appreciation for the physics involved in rear engine driving. My dad has owned many 911s over the years, which is part of why I'm drawn towards owning one.

Anyhow, I totally agree giving up one fun car where all the issues are known for another one with many unknowns is a gamble. It is expensive too. Maybe once I'm a little further in life and have one or two mini-mes running around, I'll have the proper excuse for needing a 4-seater Porsche. ;P

Alright, so I'm back to waffling on this topic. I've spotted two alternate cars that are luring me in.
1) A 2004 Boxster SE550 for a very reasonable price (under $20k, manual transmission with 110k miles and one owner).
2) A very nice 993 Cabriolet (under $40k, 40k miles and several meticulous owners).

Option 1 appeals because I could probably sell off my '99 and all my extras (hard top, extra wheels, short shifter, etc.) to cover the majority of the cost. I'd gain over 60hp and all the improvements over the course of the 986 evolution. My factory car cover, roof transport system, and speedster humps would still fit it too. (So would the hard top, but I'd doubt I'd ever use it with a glass window soft top.) The SE would also hold is value more than my current Boxster would.

Option 2 appeals because the car is just so sexy. My dad had a silver 993 back in the day, and I've been pissed with him for years now for selling it rather than gifting it to me. ;) The silver exterior and red interior just looks so great on a Porsche too. This 993 cab has low mileage, upgraded litronics, a new soft top, and appears to be impecable condition. It will hold its value or appreciate well. And those rear seats might prove useful one-day (briefly).

Option 2 would require $20,000 more. I'd have to finance it for sure. I'd probably finance Option 1 too, just so I wont feel pressured to sell my current Boxster too quickly and too cheaply. Either vehicle would require a quick plane flight to the seller and a scenic, coastal roadtrip home.

Thoughts? Fatmike, you made the 986 to 993 transition. Any regrets? I realize these models are a bit of an apples to oranges comparison.

As stated before, I primarily use my Boxster as a daily driver and for weekend get-a-ways and road trips. I haven't gotten sucked into the AX/DE world somehow...yet. I'm not opposed to picking up a cheap beater for my daily driving (like an e30 BMW), if I wind-up with an 'investment' car like the 993.

Ha, that's why I never test drive cars I cant afford!

I had a 964 for years before I had to sell it to fit my family needs. With the family grown I am now back in a Pcar again and I am very happy about that. The 964 and in my case a 2002 Boxster S are completely different experiences. Where I completely enjoy the S I loved driving the 964 (people would comment on the car all the time). I to this day regret selling it and it is the only car I every regret selling. The air cooled engine, the iconic shape, interior build quality just don't compare. When I sold it after 5 yeas I got more then I had paid for it and today it would cost another $10k. If you can afford the upfront cost of the 993 then go for it. It will be a investment that you can enjoy every day. The Boxster at least for know will continue to depreciate and have similar running costs. The Boxster may one day go up in value but I think it will be at least another 15 years and it will never be a air cooled 911.

Poll: What to do with my '99 986: Upgrade, Modify, or get a 911?
 

Did you ever consider a 996 Turbo? I test drove one and now must get one. They are in the low 40 range for a nice model with low miles. Most of these have low miles as owners tended not to drive them much, plus they are very reliable. I can't see them dropping below $30k and they may have already hit a bottom of $36k for high mileage examples. I'm also considering a 996 3.4 preferably a 99 with 50k miles from an enthusiast. My thoughts are that this car will have the dual row IMS bearing. Will allow me to transfer my gt3 bumper, 18" wheels, headlights, nav system, etc (from boxster) and get more hp and the back seats I have been looking for. I figure with 50k miles you don't need to worry about d chunk or engine porosity as that would have already occurred. Finally the best part is that this car can be had for $18k. After selling your boxster you would be looking at $8-10k.

I would miss mine though.http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/11/25/a8asy8y2.jpg

Ckrikos, good points. The basic 996s don't appeal to me. They are too shark-like and too much of a departure from the 911 style in my opinion. They are incredibly cheap right now thought.

I have been eyeing a few 996 Turbos however. I definitely like the styling of the Turbo, and the performance wouldn't be bad either. ;)

I am a little worried about how much the maintenance costs would increase going from a Boxster to be Turbo. I'm sure the newer (water-cooled) Turbos are far less temperamental than the air-cooled ones though. The gas mileage on the turbos aren't so hot either (~16 mpg). They are very sexy though. I'm not sure if I'd lean towards a coupe or cab Turbo.

Here are too very nice 996TTs that I've been eyeing (both ~$40k):

2003 with TechArt styling and upgrades

2001 with GT2 wing and upgraded wheels

I would not buy a modified turbo although they can take upto 650hp and remain reliable, I view these cars as worn likely abused. Keep in mind with tuning and extra power the drive train will be worn much more. A turbo with 88k miles should be below $40k. Ca has many nice cars on auto trader. I have been researching turbos for a few weeks as I am considering picking one up during bonus time.

Last I checked I saw more than few 996 Turbo in the mid $30K's with mileage nowhere near 90K. PRISTINE interiors. And that's on Autotrader where cars are always on the expensive side.

I spoke to my mechanic about buying one of these and he straight up warned me about the higher maintenance costs. He knows I'm becoming leary of expensive repairs after spending about $12K since my Boxster hit 70K miles.

turbos drop below 30k if they are auto or have a bit of mileage. I worry about repairs too, but figure paying a little more for less mileage and no mods will go a long way in terms of reliability.

I highly doubt that 996/997/991 or any Boxster/Cayman will ever go up in value.
The production numbers are nearly 10x 's as the air-cooled 911's and 964/993.
Remember the 993 that nearly bankrupted Porsche out of existence. In its last production year they only sold ~2500 car in all of North America. The first 1997 Boxster sold like 20+K units. Ironic that a poor sales record is now paying huge divdends for the 993.

But put it this way, if they were making 20K 964 or 993's a year for 7 years per series, you could get a 964 or 993 today for $8K. When I first bought the Boxster I was initially considering an air-cooled 911 (but probably have settled on a 964 once I spoke with my mechanic) and those cars were going for peanuts in a boom/credit bubble economy.

But at some point recently everyone woke up and realized how few air-cooled there are to fight over. That's never going to be an issue with water-cooled Porsches because there will always be unlimited supply of lightly used 997/991/997/991/Panas. But at the same time I would not overpay for a 911 or 964/993 like many are now. Those cars are usually enthusiast owned and finding a good example will be easy. And when you look at what money could buy in the 90's most of those cars have not recouped their sticker prices, and certainly not in 2013 dollars. If you shop smart and find one needing a little bit of work (nothing major) and unfortunately only drive them on sunny days (without running up the odo), you're unlikely to lose money. In other words for a work horse Porsche you better look at something else. But for a Sunday driver, a 911/964/993 beats the pants of buying a modern PDK type Porsche that's bleeding money. But some people just really hate a new leak on their garage floor every month.

Perfectlap, you make some excellent points regarding the air-cooled/waterc-cooled resale divide. I agree the production numbers are simply too high for all of the water-cooled models to make them worth much 5-10 years from now or beyond. This is part of why I keep looking at the SE550, but it will probably be the 986 that depreciates the least overtime. That said, beyond the cosmetic details, there is little different between a SE550 and a 2004 S. The limited production models that are actually worth something more than the standard variety are the ones that have significant performance advantages or some especially quirky history.

The SE550 that I mentioned earlier with 110k miles is selling for $15k, which is a mighty fine price. Still I wonder after financing its purchase, selling my '99, getting iPhone functionality setup on the SE550 BOSE system, and whatever other hidden repairs there might be, if I'd come out ahead. Would I just be better off putting the money into new/performance upgrades on the '99. At this point, I've replaced so many of the 'aging' components. With that SE550 there is little in repair records for me to inform my decision by.

The 996 Turbos are beautiful cars, but I think with their maintenance, tire costs, and fuel economy, they'd have to be relegated to Sunday driver/garage queen status as well. The non-Turbo 996s just don't do it for me. I don't know that I'd feel much of a performance gain over my 986, even if I am driving the runt of the litter engine-displacement-wise.

All this continues to make my head spin.


One last thought/question. One aspect that I really have enjoyed about my '99 986 is how easy it has been for me to do my own repair work (not all the time, but as I like). Being a mid-engine Porsche I initially expect my Boxster to be near impossible for me to work on without a proper mechanics shop.

I wonder how much of this would hold true with the various models being discussed here. Are 993s, 996s, 996TTs, or even '80s Carreras considerably harder or easier to work on than a 986? How do costs of repairs compare? I'll have to chat with my mechanic more on this too.

Yikes I'm not sure I'd pay $15K for a Boxster with 110K miles unless like my car it came with a file folder full of receipts for major maintenance repairs. I tell people these cars are reliable but they are definitely not durable. Some people think they can wrench away all those bills but I recall one invoice nearing $5K and only about a quarter of it was actual labor. Parts for these cars are not cheap by any means. And the higher up you go in the Porsche line up the truer that is.
Also, the 550 is very nice looking car and buying one second hand might have saved me quiet a few pennies on upgrades but at the end of the day the only 'special edition' Porsches that really hold value are those with limited production engines. Porsche love to max out options on Boxsters/Caymans and Carreras to slather the sticker with big mark ups. The 50th Anniversary 911 is one of the more egregious examples of this, almost putting you at the doorstep of 991 GT3 pricing, but at the end of the day a Porsche derives nearly all of its value from the engine. All other acoutrements hold little value once the engine mileage shoots north. Or a buyer without much knowledge lands in a seller's lap.

The SE550 is not really all that special . That car is no big deal . they fetch the most dollars for the 986 cars though . If i where you i would take another look at the 996 cars . they are such a bargain , drive great and feel more substantial than a boxster . especially if your coming from a base boxster the 3.4 911 will feel like a rocket ship . I put almost 4k on my 01 cab 911 in 3 months , that is usually what I put on my boxster S in a whole year . I love driving it and i am really bummed that winter is here.

^Not to quible but some 996's are a bargain. Namely the ones with limited production engines. Most Carreras do not get those engines. And most 996's do not have gobs of neck-snapping power for their weight. But to be fair Porsche's have never been powerful cars in general. The Carrera didn't cross the 300 HP until very recently with the 997, meanwhile its been getting heavier ever since the 1998. And of course you're not upgrading on handling when you move to the 996 from any Boxster/Cayman. It's a trade off for sure -- If you move to an AWD 996 even more so, understeer a plenty.

Another thing that is not a bargain is a 996 bought at or slightly above market that still needs all of the big repairs like suspension, clutch/ims, etc. Once you add these costly repairs to the purchase price, which is at premium to the Boxster even though the Boxster has essentially the same engine, just a de-tuned version, you're usually walking into a fair price and not really a bargain given the abundant supply of low to moderate mileage 997.1's. And now that they're coming off warranty, the 2009+ 997.2's which have a much improved engine. The delta between 997.1 and 997.2 is sure to come down quickly without that factory warranty coverage. Which will make sinking big money into a 996 up for major maintenance all the less appetizing when you could just be in the newer flavor of Carrera. Although personally I would wait for the 997.2 to come down in price a bit more over jumping into 997.1 that has a non-serviceable IMS bearing (big minus in my book for long-term ownership). That's the catch 22, if you find a 996 that has had the IMS addressed and is low mileage, the owner wants a premium, which makes holding out for some 997.2 price depreciation the smarter move in my book.

Unless you only live to canyon carve or autox, get the 993. Believe me, you will not regret it, once.

http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f1...ler/993986.jpg

Coupe or cab? Are there substantial arguments for one or the other or is really just a matter of personal preference. I read somewhere the maintenance is comparable between coupe and cab.

One thing the 996 cabs have going for them (vs. 993s) is that they don't obstruct the rear seats with the top down.

Totally up to you on Coupe or Cab, same car less a little rigidity for Cab. I bought the 993 Coupe for the iconic shape and was frankly convertibled out after 25 years of them. Targas are also based on the convertible chassis, the tops are known to have issues also. Except for the top, no discernible difference between maintenance coupe or cab. Buyer's Video on 993's:

<iframe width="640" height="390" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/hgNLgvX-jDc" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

It looks like the OP (RaisedOnPorsches) has a big itch which he's determined to scratch one way or another.
As I see it, he has a perfectly good early Boxster which he has sunk a fair bit of money into it with all the usual maintenance wear points addressed (IMS, clutch, water pump, etc, etc), plus the car seems to be very reliable and paid for. OK so theres some cosmetics to be sorted out, but I just can't see the logic in selling an 88k mile car (in winter) and then taking out a loan to buy a 2004 SE with 110k miles which will probably need all the maintenance wear points attended to sooner rather than later. And remember it hasn't got any repair records either, plus the IMS bearing cannot be removed without great expense......

But itches are very hard to get rid of, and each person has his own tolerance to them. But theres nothing worse to suffer from Buyers Remorse a week after committing yourself to a loan repayment and an ailing Porsche....

coreseller....
A fine pair if ever I saw one - but please, please tell your gardener to lift his game. Theres leaves all over the pathways which is just not acceptable.

Hand dug 75 freakin holes for those Arborvitaes..........Just lined the private drive with another 25 Blue Spruces.......and that DAMN Pin Oak holds it's dead leaves until spring.........

BTW......Sold the 986 to Sgt Brad, don't own both now.

Steve Tinker - You're quite right about the itch. First of, I've definitely given up on that SE550. That sad it is a single owner car and though the dealer selling it has no records, the Carfax report showed it was mostly serviced at the same place. So locating past records wouldn't be impossible. But I quickly realized I'd be facing all the same repairs I faced on the '99, all over again. Plus the suspension would be even more worn on the SE550 due to higher mileage.

I'm torn between the 993 and 996TT. Both are at similar price points right now. They're very different Porsches. Either way, I realize now is the worst time to be selling a convertible. Also I realize no matter how well maintained my Boxster is mechanically it wont fetch much of a resell price right now due to depreciation and the cosmetic bids that need dealing with.

I think I'll just have to ignore the itch and take my Boxster out on some more weekend drives. Maybe that will get this out of my system.