OH NO!! Metal shavings in oil filter :(|

[southernstar]

Pothole, when I had my PPI the mechanic ran checks on everything while I remained. Once all else was well, he did (and I payed for) an oil/filter change - even though it had only 4000 km since the last one, and he cut open the filter and inspected it. If the oil had just been changed, I would have asked to have the pan dropped. Either way, I was aware of the IMS bearing issues and decided to include that as part of the PPI.

It added very little money to the cost of a PPI and gave me some additional
confidence and peace of mind. Many of us (including me) cut open the filter after each oil change, so why wouldn't you include that in your PPI?

Brad

[recycledsixtie]

I agree Southernstar that dropping the oil filter and checking for debris is the sensible thing to do. However unless instructed to do so I would think the norm is not to do this. When I had my PPI done by a reputable indy shop I had a printout of what was done. It did not include filter check or leakdown test.

I felt the private seller was a very genuine person and trustworthy. With only 30k miles I did feel good about buying my 2001 Boxster base. I feel bad for you Haz and this kind of failure can happen to anyone. If it was me I would look for another engine(buy it from somebody you trust!). However my experience in the 2 years I have owned the Boxster is frankly that I am disappointed with the poor quality of the car overall. Accessories seem to wear out too quickly. Get one thing fixed then something else comes up. Apparently my local indy says a wheel bearing is starting to go. I asked if it needed to be fixed right away and he said no.

I have attempted to sell my Box at this time but here it is not a good time right now. I will drive it through the winter and sell it in spring. In all honesty the last two years have provided me with the best driving experiences of my life but it comes at a cost of ongoing niggling problems which I did not expect. This does not compare with what you are going through Haz and you have my utmost sympathy.
We are fortunate to have Jake Raby on the same continent in Georgia USA and if what happened to you happened to me then I might ship my Box roller to Jake for the big rebuild. Haz is there anybody out in your part of the world that does the same thing? Conversely I might put it into storage and buy an econobox while I thought about it. My daughter's boyfriend does have a point when he says if you don't have your Boxster then you will likely miss having something sporty.

Yes Southernstar it is easy look in the rearview mirror and say you should have done such and such(check the oil filter before you buy etc) but many of us find out the hard way. Hoping that prospective newbie buyers do a more comprehensive PPI. Haz I am sorry for your loss. Try and make the best out of a bad situation. A few years from now your experience will seem like a bump in the road but right now it must seem overwhelming. Yes I would try and get compensation from Porsche. Talking to the previous owner I think is pointless as I am sure it is buyer beware....

[pothole]

Originally Posted by southernstar

Pothole, when I had my PPI the mechanic ran checks on everything while I remained. Once all else was well, he did (and I payed for) an oil/filter change - even though it had only 4000 km since the last one, and he cut open the filter and inspected it. If the oil had just been changed, I would have asked to have the pan dropped. Either way, I was aware of the IMS bearing issues and decided to include that as part of the PPI.

It added very little money to the cost of a PPI and gave me some additional
confidence and peace of mind. Many of us (including me) cut open the filter after each oil change, so why wouldn't you include that in your PPI?

Brad

Just doing the filter doesn't take too long, but dropping the pan would add cost if you do it every time you are looking to buy car. And you still won't really know if the IMS bearing is due to implode three months down the road or your open deck bores or heads have the early beginnings of cracks.

I personally don't think the really scary stuff shows up in an inspection. My car has had pretty much spotless oil filters (which I inspect / cut open when I change the oil roughly every 6-7k) for the last 40k odd miles. This guarantees me nothing. The IMS might fail the next time I crank her over.

[southernstar]

I agree Pothole, no guarantees, but it will certainly tell you if things are seriously amiss at the time of a purchase (and lets face it, haz's car was still running fine when they discovered all of the particles in the filter). So too would a small amount of metallic particles (lets say, anything more than about three very small ones), or to a lesser degree, the presence of plastic particles. One won't always be able to catch a problem before it happens, but your chances of finding a pre-existing one (or with short oil-change intervals, one that is just starting to develop) increase dramatically with an inspection of the filter.

Brad

[haz]

SS Performance (specialises in rebuilding Porsche engines) quoted me $4100 for the IMS replacement. They did however recommend a full teardown with different upgrades for $11500....

[Perfectlap]

Originally Posted by haz

SS Performance (specialises in rebuilding Porsche engines) quoted me $4100 for the IMS replacement. They did however recommend a full teardown with different upgrades for $11500....

Being that you're in Europe, wouldn't it be cheaper to buy a used engine from one of the many British shops doing these rebuilds? From what I understand its the best deal going on your side of the ocean.

[haz]

Originally Posted by Perfectlap

Being that you're in Europe, wouldn't it be cheaper to buy a used engine from one of the many British shops doing these rebuilds? From what I understand its the best deal going on your side of the ocean.

Could be, but it`s twice the money than the IMS upgrade.

[Perfectlap]

Originally Posted by haz

Could be, but it`s twice the money than the IMS upgrade.

careful, it could be too late for you to be doing the IMS upgrade. I would reach out to a shop that only does m96 rebuilds like Flat6 Innovations before you make a decision. Those fragments could already be in places where they shouldn't be and can't be taken out without a tear down. It would really suck if you spent $4K only to be right back a zero after a short time on the road. I'd rather just buy a used engine from the British shops, which some on this forum say can be bought for $5K or less. I'm sure they can do the IMS swap, if it doesn't already come installed, for less than the $4K you're being quoted in Norway. Or maybe just ship the whole car to the UK.

[pothole]

Originally Posted by southernstar

I agree Pothole, no guarantees, but it will certainly tell you if things are seriously amiss at the time of a purchase (and lets face it, haz's car was still running fine when they discovered all of the particles in the filter). So too would a small amount of metallic particles (lets say, anything more than about three very small ones), or to a lesser degree, the presence of plastic particles. One won't always be able to catch a problem before it happens, but your chances of finding a pre-existing one (or with short oil-change intervals, one that is just starting to develop) increase dramatically with an inspection of the filter.

Brad

I suspect if you rejected any Box with a few bits of metal and plastic in the filter you'd be a long time looking for something to buy, you'd overlook some good prospects and the car you eventually bought would be no more less likely to spit its IMS bearing. That's my view.

I think from everything I've read, the window between significant debris in the filter but the car seeming to run fine and full blown IMS failure is very small indeed.

[southernstar]

Probably so Pothole, but many people have replaced their IMS bearings and found scoring, even though they had not yet failed. I suspect that at that point some additional metal was showing up in the oil filter. In my most recent oil change (last week), I had two very small metallic particles on the magnetic drain plug and none in the filter.
I will probably put on another 3000 km before I put it away for the winter and then I will change the oil/filter again in the spring before it goes back on the road. Hardly fullproof, but I still believe it is a worthwhile exercize.

Brad

[Perfectlap]

Originally Posted by pothole

Just doing the filter doesn't take too long, but dropping the pan would add cost if you do it every time you are looking to buy car.

You don't drop the pan every time. But neither does every Porsche go 2+ years without an oil change. One of the principal causes for IMS failure is simple oil starvation and or contamination. Once the inspector/mechanic got wind that po was neglecting a vital part of engine preservation/care he should have not hesitated in offering to drop the pan to gauge if there was damage. Any non-mechanic on this forum would tell you 27 months is a red flag, especially if this is a single row car.

I'm curious to know the total number of oil changes this engine actually had. Probably fewer than my trips to the dentist.