How much are Karmann Ghia's going for?

A funny guy I once knew had one. It broke down, he took the tags off and left it on the street.

KG Cabriolet's are, of course, worth the mos,t but the real collectibles are the original 'low-light's that were built until 1959. That's the model that was displayed at the NY Museum of Modern Art. Good examples are very hard to find and one often sees even total rusted wrecks going for $10K.

Brad

Compare it to the timeline of the Porsche 914.

They didnt become valuable until about 5 years ago.

And I use the term valuable loosely, since I havent seen many over 20K

Good 914-6's regularly make over €30k (and more) in Europe! Good 4's regularly top 20k.

Production numbers alone make this comparison pretty invalid really!

Perhaps the best basis for comparison. Value is mostly based on condition as 914s usually have huge corrosion problems. I don't think 986s will have any issues with corrosion.

Be under no illusion, I've restored many..... Every car model that lasts to see its 30th birthday or beyond will suffer from corrosion!

This! Unless it's aluminium or carbon or GFRP, it will will rust. It's just a matter of time.

I would suggest that the 986 and the 914 are vastly different in terms of their places in Porsche history. The 914 was a standalone car - nothing came afterwards (924/944/968 were complete different designs/platforms).

Whereas, the 986 is a true sister car to the 996 and the 987 was still closely related to the 997. Even though the 981 and 991 aren't as closely related, the design language of both the 981 and the 991 clearly tie back to the 986.

This heritage will make the 986 many, many times more collectable than the 914.

Sorry, but I don't see the 914-4 as having anywhere near the collectible value of the 986 as:

1. The 944-4 was not really a Porsche, but a VW- Porsche (and as I recall, it was sold as such in much of Europe). The 914-6, of course, is a pure Porsche and the dramatically higher prices at present show that! Like the 914-6, the 986 is all Porsche.

2. The appearance of the 914 was often derided - certainly the 'basket handle' roll bar and the bumpers have been subject to criticism both when the car was introduced and today. In addition, its appearance had no connection to other Porsche designs, past or present. The 986 is considered by most to be a very attractive and balanced design with strong ties to Porsches of the past (in particular, the 550 Spyder).

3. The 914-4 engine doesn't have an exciting or even sporty exhaust note - in fact, it sounds like what it is - a VW!

4 Like the 986, the 914 had great handling and braking; unlike the 986, its engine performance was strictly pedestrian.

5. Unlike the 986 Boxster, the 914 was not the first in a line of superb sports cars; rather, it was a one-off model that was moderately successful and was eventually replaced by another VW-Porsche, the 924.

6. Even at the time, the HVAC system in the 914 was atrocious, whereas the 986 remains state of the art.

7. The 914 was not a seminal design for Porsche, the 986 was; the 914 did not save Porsche, the 986 did; upon its introduction, the 914 did not generate the kind of excitement and desire, nor the universally solid reviews that the 986 did.

All of these suggest that the 986 should do better in the long run than the 914. And no, I don't buy into the suggestion that discontinued models or cars from failed companies are more collectible. If that were true, then the DeTomosa Pantera would now be worth more than the Ferrari Dino of the same era. Both were mid-engined sports cars that sold at comparable prices when new, but decent Dino's are now worth at least twice the price of a Pantera.

For those who suggest that the 986 Boxster will not soon become collectible, what you are in effect saying is that a 97 Boxster is akin to a 97 Corolla: neither car is going to appreciate in value, so just drive them into the ground and then take them to the junkyard. Frankly, within a couple of years of the 25th anniversary of the 986 Boxster (which occurs in 2021), I expect prices for good examples of the 986 to be about double where they are today - i.e., $20K to $30K. I also think that they will continue to go up from there. Large production numbers haven't halted the rise in price on cars of less importance (such as the Triumph TR6 and MGB) and I see no reason to believe that they will stop the 986 from becoming a collectible car with appreciating value in the near future.

Would I recommend buying a 986 Boxster as an investment? No, there are other cars that will likely appreciate more over time. However, if I am right, the rise in value over the next 10 years should make the cost of ownership (and the cost of a rigid maintenance schedule) a lot easier to bear.

Brad

If you collect it, it is collectible.

If you love it as many here do, it will be a classic. Loved cars become classics because their owners take care of them into their old age. That's all it takes.

congrats, looks exactly like my 987, slightly different wheels though

http://i43.tinypic.com/do9z0x.jpg

Idk if 986's will become collectable. S's might, but the lack of HID headlights and the "runny egg" headlights are turn-offs for the 2.5/2.7, although maybe when all cars are HID the "old" 986 lights will be cool? Who knows.

I'd say 987's will be collectable before 986. At least they were all HID, no runny lights, more low rpm power, standard traction control, all around a better vehicle IMHO

Oh but I will say the 986 will be collectable more-so than the 944. etc for a few reasons:
1) Mid-engine: Few vehicles are mid-engine and all of them are expensive
2) Roadster: having two seats and convertible makes it more of a toy than a practical vehicle, making the boxster more likely to become collectable
3) 911 looks: 986 body is beautiful, which is more than I can say about the 914 or 944

about the same prices as 986's are currently selling for, $5,000 to $12,000

So 3 years later and a new generation of four cylinder turbo Boxsters out, has people's opinion changed on a 986 becoming collectible or a classic one day?

To me it was a classic on day one when I bought it in Dec 1999. I guess to prove its collectible the price will need to rise year over year from a nadir for at least two years. But we haven't seen that yet.

Some of the threads said that with so many produced it can't become collectible. From my estimates about 50% of the original production has already been scrapped. Year over year the numbers listed for resale on Autotrader for 1997-2000 are 20% down. That would translate to about a 10% scrap rate of the original production numbers year over year which sounds ridiculously high. That is until you take into account these cars are approaching being 20 years old, low price and expensive to maintain. Also when you look at historical expected attrition rates for cars of this age the 10% of original production or 20% of remaining cars is about right....

By about 25 years only 20% will remain and by 30 years only about 10-15%.

So in about 10 years when all cars will drive themselves, there should be about 1500 of the 2000 year 986 left. Then give another 10 more years and with inflation....

One day they will be classic and collectible!

Here's my case FOR future classic status:
 

Classic collectables seem to bought by old guys who are trying to reclaim their youth and can afford the cash to make the statement. My definition says the car has to sell for as much as it did originally taking into account inflation. I say this from watching Barret-Jackson and such auctions. So the 986 has to get to where 18-20 year-olds saw and lusted which to me says 35 years old or so. Then even that generation ages out but the number of good condition cars boosts the few even though there are fewer buyers.

Really good 914s are now climbing in price. $34.5k asking (see the 914world.com website and search "the restoration begins" by 993innc). Even a marginal one needing cosmetics will cost more than an early Boxster in the same condition. (1973 Porsche 914)

Owned both. Loved both. If I had to have only one in pristine condition for the nice weather back roads, surprisingly it would be the 914 because it was the car immediately before family responsibility took effect. The 2 Boxsters were after family obligations were met and I drove them a lot less vigorously. The Boxster was a much better car, but the car of my relative youth ...

I suppose they can be 'collected' now.

https://c3.staticflickr.com/8/7103/2...de56eff2_c.jpg

As my cars and I age, there will come a time when we part ways. I have resolved to find an out of the way barn to park them in, seal them up, and pass them on to a 'finder' in the future.

https://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7457/2...79cd861f_c.jpg

:cheers:

I know this will be argued ad nauseam and from many different definitions but the 986 model years from 1997-2004 is, according to Porsche, a classic. If Porsche says it's a classic, for me, it's good enough.
986 - Porsche Classic
:cheers:

http://986forum.com/forums/uploads02...1464567287.jpg

My 2 cents.... Doubt I'll ever see this gem be worth what it cost new (sticker $65K), but that's what I thought about an archaic VW van (Westfalia) not to mention my old FJ 40 Landcruiser. Since it is a limited edition 550 Spyder and the last of the 986's, it stands a better chance of maintaining it's current value and appreciating some over the next 20 years. Anyway, I plan to enjoy the crap out of it and care for it like a classic. There....I said it... Classic (and its mine).

It is my intention to drive this car until it can't or I can't. Good Lord willing, we will both be classics at that point.

986 as a future classic
 

My 986 is a classic to me every time I start it up. It ticks nearly all of my boxes (hey, a pun). I'm in for the long haul and I plan on keeping road worthy as long as I can. If it some day starts to be worth a little money then great, but either way I am happy.


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I bought my 01s back in June 2009,brought it into Canada, and got it on the road for about $25,000, (including all taxes, licensing and 4 new tires)

It's still in great shape and I could not sell it for high teens now in cdn pesos, but what would get me as much fun for the same price today?

The 986s is not perfect, but it's still a great car for the $$, especially if you can find one in good condition.

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I have enjoyed reading the various opinions. I do think they are beautiful cars, especially the S's with the red calipers poking through the twists. As far as collectibility or being a classic, I am not sure the car will ever overcome the stigma. It was the porsche community that unfortunately attacked the car upon release. Did the same to the 996. Dam shame in my opinion. I have my guesses why. Though as the porsche community was bashing these cars, all the car reviews at the time these were introduced were very, very favorable. The writers had no vested interest in protecting the 911 so I think they wrote as they believed. I believe when the S came out in 2000 it knocked the vette and the z3 off car and drivers top ten. Pretty amazing feat considering it was stigmatized as the "hair dressers" car.

Hello,

914. Well i think you have to differentiate between a 914/4 and a 914/6. ;)

I would say the 986 is a future classic, because Porsche is interested that it will get a classic Porsche car – just because Porsche Classic centre is interested in doing business. ;)

Also Porsche always raises part prices for Classic Porsche cars. So maintenance is getting expensive, which also means maintenance prices raise and that means car prices for good cars stay stable or raise.

Will the value raise? Edition cars always raise a little bit more than the "standard" cars. So a 986 550 Spyder might be a good choice.

But if you take a look at the maintaining costs i'm not shure if it is a good invest. I think if you drive your car you can throw around 1.000 Euros of maintenance costs in your car yearly (tyres, brakes, oil changes, general maintenance). And every 10 years i see an investment of around 5.000 Euros (clutch, suspension, water pump, generator, condensators, convertible top, rubber parts and all the other stuff that can break). So in 10 years you'll have an invest of 14.000 Euros. Plus taxes, insurance, fuel, garage rent and so on. Plus inflation.

So if you put the car in a car collection and wait, maybe you'll get a little money out of it. But f you drive it you won't. But you will have driving pleasure.

And at the moment i see a bubble in Porsche prices over here in Europe – mainly caused by low bank rates. So people try to invest in goods.

Regards, Markus

First post here. Now over a decade since this thread was started.

How are we feeling about collectibility now? There were some strong opinions in 2013.

A 10 year old thread! I wouldn't be surprised if many of the responders aren't Boxster owners anymore.
Personally, I don't care about my 98's value or if it will ever become collectible....it could be worth $0 and I'd still keep it and drive with a big smile on my face.

Thanks Rob, exactly what I think.

Just my opinion, and depending on your personal definition of “classic”, but I think the 986 will certainly be considered a classic at some point. However not all will make it to that honored place. The very first models like the ‘98 base and 2000 S will be sought after. The special editions have a spot reserved as well as the very first 986.2 models. All others are destined to simply make their owners happy with being one of the best little cars Porsche designed.

My thinking is that there are lots around, so the Boxster will not have the benefit of scarcity (relatively speaking) of the 914. Also, for some reason potential owners opt for other cars with a certain cachet, which I observe, often stay in the garage much of the time. I predict that Boxsters will be like the MGB or the mid-century Mustangs -- in the hands of happy owners who maintain and drive them. A ready market, but not a market for those wishing to turn a profit.

Never have I purchased a car thinking that someday it will ever be worth more than I paid for it.....I just assume that it's a losing proposition. But that's probably because I'm a "driver" not a "collector".....

My 98' is more "car" than "computer". The new Boxsters (like most all other cars) are way to complicated, maintenance intensive, expensive and lack the feel of my 98'.....but that's just me....lol

And, if or when they ever go all electric I'll definitely NOT be interested!

986 is a classic…..
 

…..just ask Porsche, the 986 is now covered under “Porsche Classic” with full parts support forever.

As far as money is concerned, who cares? She’s my forever car.

Now forgive me, I gotta go for a drive.

beat me to it ...

i was reading a thread the other day that the guy had kept his car running for over 15 years without buying a single Porsche part ever in its history and was proud of it .. all after market stuff and a lot of zip ties for things ..
This is what makes me think the Boxster may go the way of the 944 ...


Sad to see really..

I don’t think they will ever be a super, sought after car due to the volume and the bad rap they got. Honestly I actually prefer that since it gives me more freedom to mess with it and not worry about ruining a future classic. Anyhow, I am a big fan, I have a 2.5 and a 3.2. Both awesome in their own ways. My prediction, I do think they will have more of a cult following. People who have them will continue to buy them while others are tempted elsewhere. People who know, know. Oh, Spec racing certainly isn’t hurting the model either.

I agree. I've been making changes to my car since I bought it. If I had to be concerned about affecting its value, I would still be riding around with an outdated sound system and a convertible top with a plastic rear window. I also would not have driven it almost 120,000 miles.

When I bought my Boxster, I wanted it to serve as a form of transportation that made a chore (driving back and forth to work) a bit more fun. I treat the car well, but I don't think I am fastidious enough to be a classic car owner.

I own a 993 and a 986, both from 1997 and in Artic Silver.
The 986 is relatively cheap to maintain and still easy to get used parts. Added the silver door pulls, rings on the dails, GT-wheels, handbrake & shifter, 3-spoke steering wheel, 2-din audio, upgraded sound, salt&pepper PSE, replaced all dummies with real use switches. All original or stealth. I enjoy it, drive and park it anywhere. Will never sell, so don’t care if it increases in value or not.
The 993 is much more expensive and parts are rare, hence very costly. But every investment would potentially come back through its appreciation. Nice on paper, but I drive and enjoy it, and will never sell.

Just watch the disinterest when a Boxster is offered on Mecum. If offers come fast and prices rise, then it has potential. But that doesn't seem to be happening.

The number of people who have the mechanical experience to maintain one and/or have access to a good P-car mechanic is limited. And as they age, they need work.

I think the 986 has more appeal than a 924 or 944. They strayed from their timeless formula with those yet the boxster has the gentle curves of a pronounced front wheel well, the rear hips in back. The original thread was started when the general distaste of the head lamps was still palpable, but we're beyond that and the intent of invoking the 917 is clear.

The 986, particularly the ones with the most analogue features, like manual trunk releases, will become treasures. They are gorgeous cars with a true Porsche timestamp.

I don't think Boxsters will become classics in the same vein as the air-cooled 911's or the first-generation Mustangs, but I think they're well on their way to being classics now. They were many people's first Porsche, whether purchased brand-new by upwardly-mobile professionals during the dot-com boom or used by mechanically-adventurous teenagers when they were valueless.

Speaking of that, they were once worth very little, and that made them disposable. Lots of Boxsters that could've been fixed for less than they're worth now were parted out or scrapped during that time, and their numbers have dwindled somewhat. They're still relatively cheap and being bought by people like me, who drive they year-round and flog them at the track. As much as I love my car, I acknowledge that my lifestyle isn't the best way of preserving it. That's fine for me, as I don't intend to sell it. Attrition rate definitely helps to create classics, look at what happened to the 180SX and what's happening to Miatas, for example.

But what makes the most sense to me is that every time a new Porsche is reviewed, they lament the absence of a naturally aspirated flat-6, the increased size, the numbness of electric power steering and the unusable gear ratios in the manual transmissions. The only way to get an N/A engine in a new Porsche anymore is to get a GT3/4.

Of course, the preferred way of doing that is an air-cooled model, but those are exorbitantly expensive to the point where many would rather get a Lotus, and air-cooled engines are no longer acceptable by many buyers' standards. The lightest, shortest-geared Porsche with the best steering to feature a water-cooled flat-6 is the 986, and by quite a margin. I think that sets it apart in pretty important metrics as far as the driving experience is concerned.

What you mustn't forget: The 986 is not a car that patronises the driver with any beeping or assistance systems (except abs etc.). Fortunately, you have to switch everything on and off and there are no stupid sensors for distance, lane, lights etc. (imho).
That's one of the things that makes this car so attractive, plus it's not underpowered and if you can drive it, you can easily outpace even more powerful cars.
It is probably too early to discuss whether it will become or already is a classic.

The bottom line is that it is and remains a desirable car with a fully galvanised body!

Those are great points about a simple non-"nanny" car's appeal.
I got a 997 because, you know, 911! But I find the Boxster not only more fun to drive, but inexplicably, more comfortable for long drives.
The only problem I've had in the 8 years I've had it was a coolant tank splitting.
I've thought about selling to get something else but can't ever really get to that point. My wife loves it though she is terrified to drive it (even though she has a manual M235!) Similar to my E39 540, it is just such a pleasure to be in and to drive.
And along those lines, I've driven a GTS 4.0. While I loved it, it also seems more distant than the Boxster, if you can understand what I mean. Far faster, certainly, but not as alive.
I think we have something here we'll treasure for a long time.