... And the biggest cash cow of them all, eclipsing all Porsche sports car sales in 2012:

The Pepperwagen. Who knew?

Porsche Reports Best-Ever Sales in 2012; 21 percent increase over 2011

And some of the guys in charge on fraud charges ....

:cheers:

http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x...ps45fbcfe2.jpg



I'm not trying to be a dick , but the amount of bull that gets posted by people online whenever the boxster - 911 discussion comes up has been amazing me since 98

THEY ARE BOTH GREAT CARS !!!!

A 981 Spyder or 981 R might be scary good. I might have to avoid ever driving that one...

Btw, whenever I read about someone swapping their Carrera for the 981S, I always congratulate them for upgrading to a Boxster.
How is moving to a midengine Porsche not an upgrade? LOL. Speaking of which, If Porsche ever made a 918 that "just" had a 991 GT3 engine revvvving to 9K RPM...oh boy. game over.

but maybe things are changing and Porsche is finally letting go of the "only the Carrera will get the best engines" mentality.
The VW CEO was recently rumored to be driving around in a Cayman with a flat8...

[QUOTE=Ian c;349642]:cheers:

I'm not trying to be a dick , but the amount of bull that gets posted by people online whenever the boxster - 911 discussion comes up has been amazing me since 98

THEY ARE BOTH GREAT CARS !!!![/QUOTE]


It's great to see someone who gets it, Thank You.

wait a minute...

You're comparing an antique Porsche to a modern Porsche to disprove FatMike's contention, one that is widely held and hardly "BS", of the Carrera's ever growing girth?

The 14 years between the 2010 987 Boxster Spyder and a 1996 986 (EU edition) would clearly illustrate that the Boxster hasn't swelled remotely in its proportions like the 14 years between a 1998 993 and a 2012 991 :

http://i1205.photobucket.com/albums/...B/IMG_8186.jpg


Now compare the last three Boxsters (15 years later, still basically the same roadster proportions)....

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...ps9eec8948.jpg



It's pretty obvious that Porsche are transforming the Carrera into a plush, insulated, Grand Touring car like an Aston or Jaguar so that it can appeal to the much bigger pool of big bucks buyers who like being comfy in thier Panamera coupes (aka 991). To Porsche's credit they widened and lengthened the 991 without adding weight but there's no getting around the downsides of actually swelling the girth/size of a sports car. Case in point, we now see the 991 GT3 with 4 wheel steering to make cornerig feel like a smaller, more nimble Carrera (aka the Cayman), and of course to address that weird abrupt under steer to abrupt oversteer condition often criticized in the bigger, more recent Carreras.

if power is an issue, put a 911 engine in it when (if) your current engine pops.

if image is an issue, put a zeintop on it and de-logo it. no-one will know if it's a boxster, cayman, 911, 996 turbo or what.

My final decision came down to a '91 Carrera 4 or my '99 Boxster.

I went with the Boxster. Honestly.. for less money it delivers an equally satisfying driving experience, the same wonderfully operatic flat six whirr, and will be relatively maintenance free in comparison as my daily driver.

I'd love to own an older 911 someday, but I don't feel like I gave anything up by going the Boxster route. Two completely different cars aimed at two different tasks and they both do it remarkable well.

Erm ......
I put beer smilies , and Said not being a dick ,
Yet you still took the wrong end of the stick and ran with it ....

My bs comment was aimed at nobody in particular , but instead the fevered defending of a persons car purchase , by insulting and belittling the other car in discussion .
As I said , they're both great cars .
I own both .
I'm neither an elitist 911 snob , nor a little napoleon boxster driver . I'm just a car guy .....

(And it wasn't me who originally compared the boxster to a 550 ... As always happens in these discussions )

ran with it?


You posted a photo of an antique Porsche next to a modern Porsche. Basically to demonstrate the idea that the Carrera becoming a Grand Touring is not really different to what has happened to the Boxster.

This is very misleading because the Carrera has in fact been morphed into a different category of sports car (FatMike's point). Whereas the Boxster is bigger than the 550 simply because it would be impossible to build a street legal production car that way today. Not as long as DOT laws have a say.

Your photo was a apples to oranges comparison. I posted an apples to apples comparison. That's all.

It was you that first mentioned the 550 . Then complains when somebody posts a picture of one ...

It was you that talked of the porsche racing success decades prior to the 911 design . Then backtracks when proved wrong ...

It is you that seems to have 911 envy ...

The very reason these types have thread keep me amused over the years :)

correct, and mentioning the 550 is very relevant in addressing the OP's point that he felt that the Boxster was a 'girl's car'. As the Boxster is the closest to the 550 Spyder -- a car NO ONE would qualify as a chick car. Certainly not those willing to pay upwards of a million dollars. The only people who seem to feel that the Boxster is inferior are people who simply discount the history of the car within the brand and spend too much time buying into the years-in-the-making clever upselling strategies by Porsche's marketing people. Strategies that would only have been possible if the Boxster and Cayman were inexplicably denied engines that their platforms were more than capable of handling. Bizarre....

All of these point points were relevant to the OP's post. So I'm confused as to why would say I brought it up, as if to infer irrelevance.

p.s.
I have Ferrari envy. So you got it half right. You can always buy an old Carrera for less than a Cayman S and not get too freaked out about repairs. Can't say that about those beautiful sounding/looking Ferraris.

p.p.s.
for the record, are you disagreeing with FatMike, that the Carrera has not morphed into a GT? By posting the antique vs. modern Porsche picture you seem to be at odds with that sentiment. Are you back pedaling?

Yeah that has always been the beauty and selling point of the 911 .
Reliability AND track ability .

One of the reasons the 924 cgt and 914s where deliberately held back .

As I said earlier , I was having a beer with mike and my comments where not aimed at anyone in particular , but rather the way these threads always seem to go ...

I know exactly how these cars have morphed , this is not my first rodeo .... :)
I have a 56 bug , 73 911 , 93 c2 , and an 09 c4s .... The boxster in my work parking lot again today ;)

Actually 99% of the water-cooled Carreras overheat on the track just like all the non-flagship Porsches today. Which is why the GT3 have sold so well amongst the track crowds and why the cars will hold value. Those engines don't just look the part.

In fact , I have boxster envy :)
A new S with pdk is my current dream car at the top of my "list"

Any facts to back this up ?

Look at any Interseries Cayman, or the BGB Cayman that won the Rolex 24 with a 997 engine. It goes well into the six figures to make a Porsche 997/987/991/981 engine (aka non-GT3) capable of withstanding long track stints. Or alternatively, just connect a reader to the temperature sensors via ECU CAN bus during a punishing day at Sebring..and then compare to the GT3. One of these engines has clearly not been engineered for track duty. And its not just the engine, its also the transmission, brakes, possibly power steering pump...

Porsche doesn't equip car in a way where 90+% of its street drivers will never use it.
That's just an unnecessary vaporizing of ready made profits.

It cost about a thousand bucks to buy a gt3 radiator set up , plus the bumper .

The normal 997 third radiator can be done for around 400 .
Should the other 99% overheat on the track on a real hot day .

However , I think you misunderstood when I mentioned the streetcars track ability as a selling point ...

This is a very interesting conversation .....

are you discussing the cost to do some simple modifications or the cost to buy a track Porsche (as in ready for long track stints, like I posted) that won't blow out engine/transmission/brakes and does NOT come with a GT3 engine?

Granted I said six figures for just the engine mods and that was wrong. It's for making a street-engined Porsche capable of the track duty of a GT3 street car.

Neither .
I'm telling you the cost to make a 997 more temperature controlled should the 99% of them made overheat on The track like you say they do ....

A bit of clarification gentlemen.

The 986/996 and 987/997 are no more likely to overheat on a racetrack than the venerable Turbo or GT3. Actually due to a flaw in the GT1 engine variant, the Turbo/GT3 are MORE likely to overheat, with failed coolant line connectors that have dumped coolant on the rear wheels causing spin and loss of control. There is a $3000 fix available... engine-out of course:

The GT1 Coolant Pipe Prevention / Fix on GT1 block (GT3, GT2, Turbo) Cars - SharkWerks Porsche Project Gallery

Carry on. :)

^ I'm not so sure that that you have pointed out that T/GT3 do overheat as much as all Porsches will eventually overheat if tracked long enough.

p.s.
I would not buy a 996/997 GT3 without that coolant pipe fix. Ditto for downgrading the PCCBs and dispensing with center locking wheels.

The forums are loaded with tales of woe if you choose to look. It is as widespread and well understood as IMS with similar repair costs. Now that you mention it though, I have been hitting the track regularly since 2006 and I don't recall any systemic overheat problems with m96/m97 based cars. An occasional failed waterpump or mis-routed coolant line yes. I have seen a dozen Turbo/GT3 going home on a flatbed with coolant dribbling out the back. I have also seen a few backed into a wall after a coolant fitting let go.

I think you got this whole overheat scenario backwards PL. On a really hot day an m96/m97 will heat soak the motor but overheat to the point of damage is rare in a typical 20-30 min DE session. In a 24 hrs of Daytona all bets are off for a street car.

In a 24 hrs of Daytona all bets are off for a street car. Or the San Bernadino / death valley run for the next two months.

i know the 2000 carrera is the same tub as my 2002 s but is the motor ,suspension brakes etc. the same just with the motor in a different place m96?

Hi Ghost! ;)


nicecar
"i know the 2000 carrera is the same tub as my 2002 s but is the motor ,suspension brakes etc. the same just with the motor in a different place m96?"

Nope. You have a 3.2L 250hp motor, the Carrera has a 3.4L 296 HP motor. The 3.4L will fit rather well into your car though. :)

Yeah. I am a 911 wannabe , but I could afford a boxster so that's what I bought my wife. I suppose it's a status or snobbish thing. I mean, I park the box next to Miadas and BMW z4s at the yacht club, just to lord it over them. Sure, they've got a bigger boat than I, but hey- they aren't driving a boxster. Then today, some sob parks his new jag f series 2 seater next to me! What a slap in the face. I broke out in hives. So, head down, I moved the Box - next to a 'vette! I'm feeling top of the world again.

You better look out, that new Stingray looks like it will be pretty awesome.




/

I'm in Canada . It will take 4 years for that to get popular here. By then I'll just be a tired old man - instead of an angry old man. (I think I stole those lines from Steve Earle)

What is it like ?
I've only seen adverts on tv upto now .
It looks a nice piece of kit .
How much bigger than a 986 ?

I couldn't tell. I was looking at the ground - kinda like the perp walk you see on TV. But my wife said it looked 'nice'. No sex for her tonight.

For those who missed this...

Showdown - 2012 Porsche 911 Carrera (991) vs. 2013 Porsche Boxster S - CAR and DRIVER - YouTube

If you worry about what others think about the car you are driving, get a Toyota. Then they won't even notice you. I've owned 2 911's and now a Boxster. Enjoyed them all. I'll eventually move on to something else when the urge hits me. I was just at the PCA track day at Kansas Speedway a week ago. Everything from 914's to 911's to 944's to 928's to 986's on the track. Each and everyone of them were having a blast. Didn't see any "envy" there at all.

The 911 has always seemed like an older generation's Porsche to me. Two of my uncles had them back in the day. My aunt had a 944.

The Box is the first car Porsche made since I learned to drive.... and I'm 39. There is something special about a car being of your time.... when you came of age.

I have also noticed that the only people calling the Boxster an "Entry Level Porsche" are the ones driving something other than a Porsche. Every Porsche owner I have come across (and I've met people with all models) just want to know how I like it, what year, or talk Porsche shop.

Everyone else.....eff em. I have the car because I love it.

Sorry very OT. Would you guys know where to buy the tailights of the above 986? Looks nice, i dont think its the depo one.

It is not a 986 .
But that's not to say you cannot find an aftermarket version of them lenses for a 986 , just that I cannot help you with that .

Well, 911 is always at the back of my mind. After 3 years convincing myself that the boxster is almost as good as 911, I budged to 911 pressure. Pulled the plug on 2002 996. They are 2 different cars and 911 is more comfy and powerful while the boxster is more nimble and sharp. They complement each other nicely. One boxster and one 911 would be a great combination.

At the Parade this year as I was entering the staging area for the Porsche Parade through Traverse City in my 996 Twin Turbo a PCA volunteer came running up to my car yelling: "Boxsters must turn left, STOP!"