Show or Go?
 

Man, I'm halfway to my goal and I'm really torn between what to do first. The results will happen within a few months.

I currently have a base 2.5L 986 that has a very dated body. Despite upgrading the LED HID Projector headlights, the paint is quite faded and there are countless scratches and nicks all over the body. Not to mention a quarter of my rear back bumper was re-done by the previous owner with this cheap bondo crap (it looks like crap).

However, I also want more power, and have already sourced out a 3.2L engine from a 986S that will be re-sleeved into a 3.6. I drive pretty aggressively and believe that performance is the key to any car.

Both will happen eventually, and both cost about the same. It's just a matter of which one I want first. Show, or go.

I lean more towards go, but I have many with strong arguments for looks as well.
Thoughts?

I can't remember the way my buddy used to phrase this, but I'll give it a shot.

First make sure the car can stop.
Then make it go faster.
Once you get the car to go as fast as you want it, then make it look good. Since it is very difficult to achieve, having a car you don't want to go any faster, how the car looks rarely becomes an issue.

driver or arriver?

Already have upgraded 986S brakes. Suspension and rubber is also upgraded. I'm a corners kind of guy.

Sounds to me like you've already decided to get the upgraded engine. And I understand as I too would like to do so, but rather than sink more money into my Boxster I've decided to just get another car. Just don't know if I want a Boxster S, Caymen S, or Carrera S so to speak.

I'm much more in favor of getting a second car just because of what happened today (water pump failure). The idea being I can always drive the other while fixing the first. If needed.

Besides, if I put a 3.2 or 3.6 in my car I'd also have to buy new rims (wider), tires, suspension improvements, etc. and I just can't see doing that when the same funds would buy another car that already has most of that in it.

Crono,
My $0.02 worth. Do the mechanicals first - all of them.
Then body.

For me it's not about style over substance or power over looks. It's just logical. Mint the body work, then start wrenching on it will end in tears.

Panels will get scratched, nicked etc. It's enivitable when doing that kind of work on this kind of car.
So leave the cosmetics until last. Otherwise you'll find you'll be doing it twice.

EP

I agree that the mechanical should be first, if only to save the pretty parts from damage. How about upgrading to a 996 TWIN TURBO(!!!!! AWD), then for similar money you've got both--a nice body with twice the power you've got now....:dance:

I've had the same decision to make on my 914. Upgrade to a flat-six engine or make it look nicer - it needs a paint job.

Spending my money on the engine conversion first is a no brainer. The car is for myself and not to impress others - and I can't see the paint when I'm driving it.

You guys bring up another issue that I've been condemned for by many car enthusiasts and friends a like.

Why spend $20k when I could easily spend that money and get a 987 or something.

... and to be honest, I can't really give a good answer, other than the fact that I am completely in love with my 986. And I'd rather spend that money and have the best 986 on the street than just a regular 911. Besides, my brother already has a 996TT- I'd be a copycat if I got one, and I've been copying him my whole life :)

Hah. Somebody told me the same thing when I was asking around about a 914/6 conversion 3-4 years ago. A well known Porsche mechanic in Texas told me to buy a Boxster instead. Thanks for the help. Took me 3-4 years to buy a Boxster - but that's long after I decided to do the 914/6 conversion anyways.

Have you already spent the engine money?

If not I wouldn't do it. Performance mods are just a part of the mechanical investment you'll have to make. I'm assuming you're not making this sort of an investment into a car to only own short term? If you are looking to keep the car for more than 4 years, you're going to have to address quiet a few things other than the paint and bumpers. At the end of it all you'll have put a huge chunk of money into the car and have only a slight performance edge over a 9A1 987 S or Boxster Spyder. All of those mods are sunk money because if you sell it, the market will only pay you pennies on the dollar or maybe nickels. Or worse if an old lady smashes into the back of your car the insurance company might screw you and you'll have instantly taken a bath on all that mod money. A huge risk.

If you like the 986 and require more power, get an S model and enjoy the power it has in standard form. Take it to the track/autocross and you'll see its MORE than enough power to get you into a lot of trouble. Unless the engine upgrade is going to deliver north of 100 HP, the car is not going to be transformed. I'd almost say you'd be better off dumping a Corvette engine in it. Big power, low maintenance, low cost. The other options that mean staying with a Porsche engine are just not a lot of bang for the buck vs buying another Boxster/Cayman with a 3.4. Point is, you wont' be slaying any GT3's at your local track for all that change. And if you are you spent a boat load to do it. Enough to have put you into a Boxster SPyder, Cayman R, 996 GT3 or 996 Turbo.

I'm already somewhat invested into the Boxster engine. Bought a 3.2 from a wrecked S.
And it should be pushing somewhere in mid 300 hp (or, at least the shop claims).

I'm not doing this so much for an AutoX car I can destroy GT3s as I am doing it for myself because... well, again, I can't give a good reason. I just love this car. I've driven a 996TT, and I've driven an early 00's Z06 (I hated the Z06 btw). I've also driven a 987 Cayman S. And yes, they were fun to drive, and magnitudes better than my little base 2.5... But they're not what I want. I would rather have a personal, unique Boxster that has the kick I want than a GT3 that every other rich guy has. This route, the Boxster is everything I want it to. And I don't plan on selling it. It's because of that decision that I've decided to walk down this path.

And again, I can't give a good reason, other than the fact that I want it.

you dont like the 986 power...
you want to change the 986 look...

you will spend a GREAT amount to do what you have mentioned... why build on this platform? buy a newer S, you dont want to put the 3.6 kind of power behind a bunch of old parts meant to only withstand the 2.5!
If you say it must be a convertible, then instantly you are adding body roll by not having a roof.

I totally get what you want to do for i have the same dream. however I cannot afford a 3.6 engine, and if I could I would get a much newer Box with the style i like so I only have to put my money into performance and not looks!

10k does not seem like a lot. I already have the third radiator, S brakes, and Bilsten PSS9s on the coming. What else does an S have that I don't? At this point, getting an S roller would cost even more money.

Let's put it this way. This decision of modding an old outdated platform was made after lots of time pondering. I don't believe I will be persuaded from it, although you are all welcome to try. But I'm glad that this community agrees with me (Go) and not with the companions I frequent (Show)

Big part of newer, is everything has less wear and tear. every moving part has a lifespan, (bearings, joints, welds, etc etc) in buying newer to the look you like you will also get parts who have a longer life ahead of them plus better engineering. 10k + my car blue book would have me in an (under 75k mile) 04 S. and that is just one place I looked in the last 5 minutes.

Also the S has a beefier rear suspension IIRC

Like I said, that is just what I would do, but I fully support the concept of having the sexy boxer look while blasting by all the other noobs!

It sounds like you've pretty much decided on keeping your 986. With that said, it's a win/win situation if you can make it go and also make it show. Personally, I would get all of the mechanicals out of the way, and then tackle the cosmetics.

Essentially, don't put lipstick on a pig. It's still a pig.
Iron out the working parts, then apply the makeup.

I must admit, I am a product of my environment. And that is, I am a recent graduate who found himself a good career, yet still surround myself with the younger crowd of my college years.

And of course to them, looks are everything. Despite my arguments for why I want performance, they all maintain that looks should come first. I was near agreeing with them, as they present strong arguments, but you guys pretty much set it straight.

It's my car. I want power. All else can wait.

I'll keep you all posted.

This has always been my formula.
Recently finished step #3 with my 3.6
Yesterday I washed & waxed it. Then vacuumed the top canvas. (only way I know to get the lint off) Original top still looks good so I just going to replace the plastic window
Now the cosmetic restoration begins.
Seems many don't realize the cosmetics & body can be taken from you anytime. ( ask Thstone) You would have to slam a utility pole really hard to damage a engine.
Otherwise you can take it with you to your next BOX. :D

First off, I totally get where you're coming from. What other cars I could have bought with the money I've spent on my 99 986 is irrelevant. I don't want those other cars - I want this one. And I don't have to have an explainable reason for that - it's just the way I feel and I don't have to justify that to anyone other than myself. Good for you for being up front about that rather than throwing out some lame reasoning to appease the peeps that don't get it.

That said, I don't think that mechanical and cosmetic considerations have to be mutually exclusive. The approach I have taken was to first get the car mechanically sound. In other words, no mods, but make sure the scheduled maintenance is up to date and that anything past its service life gets replaced. Then I went after the cosmetic issues that made the car look scabby - the worn top with the cracked plastic window, the cracked leather seats, cloudy headlights, body damage, that kind of thing. Now at this point I have a good platform to move forward with mods and upgrades. The car is sound and looks nice and I can proceed with my non-essential work at my own pace and in the order that most appeals to me.

You are obviously attached emotionally to this car. The project you have in mind with larger engine sounds very ambitious and expensive. Figure out carefully how much it costs to put in a larger engine. To me it seems overly ambitious when you can get an s model with a larger engine already installed. However it is your decision. If it was me I would fix up the your current ride and sell it and buy an s. However it seems like you like fixing......:)

by the way, mind sharing what you estimate this project to run? Including the car itself of course.

Here's what I spent on exterior mods. I'll include the wheels here since you can't really do aero while leaving the 17" stockers in place.


$2,100 factory Carreras.
$1,100 RA-1
$1,000 GT3 factory front bumper
$700 GT3.2 aftermarket skirting
$350 Boxster Spyder aftermarket rear clip
$2,000 GT3 seats
$1,400 Litronics.

^ About $9K and that's with some excellent pricing on a few items that have gone up considerably since. Today these exterior mods would probably cost you $12-$14,000 or equal the cost of buying a Boxster S.
Mind you, this before we add the Fabspeed exhaust, new shocks, painted/carbon fiber interior mods, and addressing the 13 year old canvas...

You seem to be committed to the roadster concept. I don't think this is so much a question about which to do first, exterior or engine, but instead the question seems to be is modding an old water-cooled Pcar the best route to take with the level of investment you're probably looking at once all the work has been done. Not to mention the time.
Personally, I'd save up for a Boxster Spyder. For me that's the last great Porsche roadster, still the lightest, rawest, most powerful/best chasis that can be had with non-electric steering, and simply the most driver-oriented. It will be a while before they're into the $40K range but you won't be far from that with this project once you factor in major maintenance as well.

People often say "they think I'm rich because I drive a 10 year old Porsche. Little do they know they're new Accord cost more". I kind of laugh when I hear that because a 10 year old Porsche's cost of long-term ownership is enough to buy a few Accords. Or I could simply show them the invoices from Indy...and his rates are the best. Close inspection reveals little of those tabs were labor, mostly parts.

For aesthetic exterior mods, I plan to spend about 10k:

Front bumper + LED lights - $2500
Stock OEM rear bumper (mine is screwed up) - $300
Rear diffuser - $200
Side skirts - $300
Aerowing - $350
Paint/Dent body refinish - $2800

Total Aesthetic: $6450




For interior, the shop came up with this list:
Rebuild 3.2 block into 3.6L engine with custom pistons and install in car - $1,000.00
Bore and sleeve block to 3.6L iron sleeves - $2,400.00
Custom JE pistons with - $2,000.00
Engine gasket set (less head gaskets) - $432.48
Rod bearing - $96.00
Cylinder head gasket - $86.72
Knife-edge and rebalance crankshaft - $595.00
996 (earlyM96-04) main bearing shells - $118.80
Timing chain guide rail (crank) - $35.25
Replacement rails for chain drive - $79.10
Custom ECU chip - $1,100.00
IMS - $530

Total engine mods: - $8,468

This doesn't include everything I've already done/have on the way/have yet to install

GPS system
LED HID Projector headlights
Bilstein PSS9s
986S brakes
3rd radiator

The 3.2 that they're working on has also been purchased by me for $2,000

They're also considering buying my 2.5... I can't very well take it home with me


I'm currently running Michelin Pilots on my 18" stock turbo twists. I will get 19's eventually, but my 18's do well.



I plan to complete this project within 2 years

$2K for 3.2 engine? How many miles are on it?

Have you priced the Raby engines? Sounds like you're going to be over $11K into the engine with your current approach.

A little torn.....
 

Without seeing a picture, I am not sure what would be best. If the car just looks "dated" then go with the engine first. If the body looks like crap, then get the body done.

I know it is not the same, but I compare it too the guys who put $5,000 stereo systems in their cars that look like they are worth $500. Or a ricer that has the exhaust, spoiler, rims etc., but three different colors of paint and a bondo'd door.

I've had extensive talks with Raby and BRoberts. Unfortunately, Raby does not do anything for base model 2.5s
11k sounds exactly what I planned for. The engine was sub-50k (don't remember exactly, will find out.)

Pictures of my car can be found around. It's not bad, but it's not immaculate either. It's what you expect a 10 year old car to look like.
I've already concluded I'm going performance first.

Has the shop doing the 3.2 to 3.4 rebuild dyno'd the end result before?

PL is obviously a sports car enthusiast who found a 986 at his nexus of needs at a certain point in his life.
Crono sounds like a 986 enthusiast who is somewhat married to his car, for whatever reasons of emotions vs practicality.
I am with you Crono, I too drank the 986 coolaid. My funmobile budget was for about $10K more than I spent at initial purchase, which would have easily put me into a 987 or 996. But I liked my 986 better, and had a little left over to do some tweaking. The engineer in me likes the midengine. The artist and lover in me likes that sexy body and sweet color combo I got, which btw, is to my eye, muuuch nicer than the alternatives available then (981 wasn't out). The consumer in me likes getting a highly optioned mid-$70K in very good shape for less than $15K. And being able to feel the road, drop the top, carve up the road, and get some vitamin D while listening to a symphonic engine note... well I'm very pleased with my car. I didn't buy it to resell, trade-up, or cash in my insurance with a wreck. It is an indulgence for me, one of relatively few. I accept the risk of losing money. In fact, as PL pointed out, it is a virtual certainly that I will lose money just maintaining the thing. So the question becomes how to lose it in a way that brings me pleasure.
I suspect this is where Crono is at. There is a certain pleasure that also comes from seeing potential and carefully developing that potential to unlock it, especially if this adds to a unique and superior experience. And a more mature pleasure that comes from learning the nuances -both good and bad- of a car with which one has experience over time. You can't do this by changing models frequently, it is like tossing out the body of experience, muscle memory, threat awareness, etc, that has built up subconsciously with your car. Not unlike with my wife;)
Now back to the question: Looking at my car makes me want to drive it. I am not very anal by Porsche standards about my ride. But if the lack of show dampens your enthusiasm, then you have purchased less pleasure for your buck and may be less motivated to enjoy your car and to spend on your car in other areas. A seriously ugly car can limit how you use it. I will always want more go, but realistically, unless I decide to start racing it is not a limiting factor in my fun, b/c I just can't give this thing a proper workout on public roads without risking jail time.
So I would say 1) power to you 2) if the "show" ever keeps it parked, then address this first 3) if not, it is more practical to handle the "go" first.

They have. They said they've built some racecars, and this isn't the first 3.2 to 3.6 conversion they've done on a non e-gas Boxster. Kravig Precision Motion is the company, and they claim I'll be pushing 350hp. They fix my brother's 996TT from time to time, and they seem to do good business. I'll be driving all the way to California to have it done.

I'm glad I'm not the only one out there with this kind of mindset. I don't want a Boxster Spyder. I don't want a 911. I want a 986 Boxster that is unique to me, built so that I know everything that's in it, and can still give any of those cars a run for its money. And, at the rate I'm going, it'll be less than a Boxster Spyder at the cost of some fresher parts and OEM designing... but I'm okay with that. Any rich boy can go out and buy a Boxster Spyder. My car, like the Dangermobile, Jaay's black 3.4, Wing02nut, or 986rgt, will be one of a kind.

I could be a complete idiot, but we'll see how it all turns out.

That's what I tell all my friends. Choosing to purchase my Boxster was the best and worst decision of my life...

At least until I get married. Then we will have a new winner to the best and worst decision ever.:D

Crono - Keep on, keepin' on brother! I've always thought in these terms: Corners first (tires, wheels, suspension, learn to drive), then straights (power), then paddock (looks).

Finish up the mechanical mods and then turn your efforts to the looks.

I think a strong ,common drive amongst us is the one to 'build for me' instead of settle for something 'built for many'. Before buying my first Porsche I spent 12 years restoring and customizing 2 vehicles and I know the feeling of driving something I built myself -knowing wrench sizes by memory ,knowing the best OEM mods from other years and ways to do things most economicly. But I've grown weary and have come to realize that Porsche and BMW can do it better than I can. I want a Spyder, TT or GT3. Add coilovers and wam I'm done! I understand the urge to 'build your own' and all I can say is GO FOR IT!
And, buying my 986 S was the most satisfying purchase I've made.

I think mechanical is the way to go to start. You're asking for opinions, so you're sure getting them, but I think that's the most sound.

I think your use of the word "dated" may be throwing some people off, where they're thinking old-school style that looks like it belongs in a different era, but you mean the car looks worn out/weathered. Did I get that right?

Anyway, you can spend to the moon making the car pretty, but since you want it to be able to go somewhere in a hurry and stop even faster so you can put your flaming hair out, I think it makes sense to get all of the mechanical stuff situated before you start turning it into an aesthetic pleasure (aside from sweet engine/exhaust sound, which comes with the mechanical work and makes a good argument for me ripping out the stereo and telling passengers to shut up:rolleyes:).

I know what you mean about the college folks who seem to only focus on looks, or looks before performance. I have to deal with plenty of them myself, but they don't seem to think I'm off my rocker for wanting to focus on making sure my car is mechanically sound before I even bother touching the body. It's not a brand new car that needs nothing. It's a 15-year-old car that needs plenty, but still drives well. You only see the imperfections when you get close enough. From a distance and passing by on the road it looks great, and I'm always more concerned with how it handles and drives than how it looks...though I'll admit to a bit of mental anguish when it's extremely filthy. But hey, at the most I get to see the tops of the fenders through the windshield, and the very top front edges of the rear quarters when the top is down. It's not as important to me as what I'm touching, hearing, and feeling while I drive.

Just slide your Johnny Danger Action Suite CD into the player and let the mojo take you away !!

Why not buy $20,000 worth of track events? ;) Imagine how good you'd get at driving. Can't buy that mod!

Funds are mutually exclusive :)

I think you are also wanting to do some major work on your own car so when you take it out for the first time your smile will be wide and you get that amazing feeling of achievement which you don't if you go out and buy a GT3.
I can see that..I did bore work on a Triumph bike I had and it transformed the bike no end..it felt good.

But Porsche make very good cars and improving them at this level is expensive and difficult.
I suggest you look out for a low mileage, babied 986/7 S with a blown engine and transfer your engine into that.
That way no cost of body work and no brake/suspension upgrades, just a brilliant useable car that will blow most other cars to bits.:cheers:

Good luck what ever you do.