ok.. so windows don't work, top won't move, trunks & *@#! gas door won't open
 

Title says it all.

I don't know what's going on with this stupid car but seriously.. I'm getting pretty tired of it deciding whether or not it will roll down the windows on any given day. Whether or not the top will function on any given day. Today, 1000 miles from home it decided it wouldn't even allow the gas door to open. Ridiculous. Effing ridiculous.

Got the gas door open (thank owners manual). Got my luggage out of the trunk (thanks manual override mod). Everything else is still DOA .

Best guess, the central alarm system is broken. Do you have any diagnostic codes?

Yeah, that's my guess too.. Stupid thing. I did get a CEL the other day too. Is there a way to read the codes without hooking up to an obd2 reader?

Autozone does it. Oreilley's should too.

If you pass through SLC I have a reader and Dash Command.

Hey Tim, I'll be heading thru SLC tomorrow afternoon on my way back up to Idaho falls. U gonna be around?

Yes. I'll IM my cell number. I can meet you at my shop.

Stupid question, but did you try the lock/unlock procedure with the key using the physical lock? Mine did this once and it was as simple as locking the car at the door, wait 30 seconds, then unlock.

It's a long shot, but you never know.

I wasnt familiar with the lock/unlock procedure.... Let me do a search for it and then walk out and try it.

OK, so quick update... Met Tim (who's a very cool dude!) in SLC and we ran my CEL codes. Nothing remarkable or relevant. Just a couple of emission related checks that appeared a couple of weeks previous when I pulled it out of winter storage. Stale gas or some other such thing. Anyway, we cleared the codes, then spent a half hour chatting Porsche talk.

I left his shop and drove home 3 hours north. In the rain. With the top down (because it still wouldn't function).

Recent Progress:
I decided to go after the one problem that seemed to occur right before the anti theft lock down - the passenger side power window shi tting the bed.

When I took the door panel off today, the cable had come off the rear upper pulley and the cable inside the spool behind the motor was all kinds of tangled and deranged.

Got it pretty well straightened out and respooled but finally said to hell with it and ordered a new regulator. I figured with as kinked up as the wire cable is in so many different spots, Id probably just run into further problems down the road anyway. Solution: replaced the whole regulator component. It should be here Thursday or Friday.

Edit: in case anyone was curious, the entire regulator cost me $130 and thats new rails, cables, etc.

So, step one complete: identify and correct the bs with the right side power window mechanism.

Step #2: reset the anti theft system.

Can you guys think of whats going on with this thing? I don't have any codes or anything. The car fires right up and drives fine. Its just that the windows, trunks, roof, and gas door are locked down tight.

I don't know anything about the electrical system or relay locations etc. I tried the lock/unlock thing (I think..) and I've left the battery unplugged for a couple hours but no luck so far.

Hey, it was a pleasure to meet you and your friend! Sorry you got rained on!! Have fun with those bearings.

What about the key switch contacts? Sounds like you lost a lot of electric power in one event. Does the key switch close a contactor that may have a bad pole or contacts? Actually, my trunk will open without the key. Have you checked for power at the fuses for each of these? Isn't there a primary fuse that protects several smaller fuses in the block?

my 99 did this once with the whole anti theft lock down (mine also didnt start tho)
long story short the CAS(m535) under the drivers seat had gotten a tiny amount of water from a clogged drain. If you just got it out of winter storage, id assume you washed your baby so that water could have been enough to short the system. Id recommend that you pull the seat up, pull out the m535 box take it out make sure all connections look good let it dry out or hit it with hard core Alcohol to aid in drying it, reconnect it, use silicon to seal up the box. and HOPEFULLY it works. I also advise using di-electric grease on all the connections to help keep them in tip tip shape, but i am a wee bit ocd lol

I'm pretty sure its a relay or a fuse. I was on the last leg of a 1800 mile road trip. No issues prior to this happening. The passenger side window has gone up/down a lot slower then the driver side since the day I bought it. Anyway, we got in the car and suddenly the window would only move about 3" in either direction before stopping. Did that a few times and suddenly nothing else would move. Any ideas guys?

I don't want to get to focused on any one idea and end up chasing my tail but its very likely a anti theft relay. Just based on the fact that it locked the trunks and gas door...

However, with that said, what fuses/relays are likely candidates to check? Where can I start with troubleshooting this thing?

I have issues with the locking system on my 98. I have to press the unlock button on the dash in order to unlock the levers for the trunks and the gas cap. If I don't hit the button before opening the door I have to lock the door and then unlock with the key. I would imagine I will have to replace the control module under the seat at some time, at the very least the passenger locking module, which has been buggy.

Sam C: great idea to check fuses. the fuse for the locks/trunks et all is.... drumroll.......in the m535 under the seat!
that is why I and others suggested you look into it.... it is 4 bolts to remove the seat! very time effective to check it out if you ask me so you wont be "chasing your tail," and you can kill 2 birds with one wrench!


I had to remove mine on the side of a street in Eugene OR, it is a pretty easy task.
and again let me suggest after drying it out and checking fuse/block for corrosion that you use silicon and di-electric grease upon re-assembly
Best of luck and keep us updated!

relay chart if it helps:
http://986forum.com/forums/uploads01...1365553095.jpg

That's why I asked, brother... because I didn't know where the relays were. If they're under the seat, then so be it. I was just saying the immobilizer or the m535 or whatever we're calling this particular magical box designed by Porsche for the sole purpose of frunking over their customers by shutting down their cars at the most inconvenient time was probably not the problem since the car starts and drives just fine and has never gotten any moisture inside.

Of course, this one magic box is just one of many installed by the demigod like engineers (read: "retards") at Porsche to make these cars as finicky and ridiculous and failure prone as possible. Just my opinion.

Thanks for the feedback though, I'll yank the seat tomorrow and check things out.

As for the potential difficulty of removing the seat, I'm not too worried about it...
http://986forum.com/forums/general-discussions/43775-winter-mini-overhaul-complete.html

Mini update:
The roof decided to start working again this evening for no particular reason whatsoever.

I'm pretty sure one of my next tasks during mini overhaul #2 (suspension, wheel bearings, electric PS pump, glass rear window) will be to remove all the ridiculous circuitry etc. that allows this car to decide whether or not various components will function at any given time. It will have a direct link between the button and the motor. If my finger is pushing the button, the car will no longer have the power to decide if its going to obey or not.

So my assumption with the roof is that it wasn't ever immobilized or part of what's going on with the windows/trunks etc. Nothing changed and then all of a sudden the roof starts working. Its been a little finicky before... I'm assuming the double relay or one of the limit switches is going out on that one. Now just need to figure out the windows and locks.

add the relay switches at the latch site of the top to your overhaul #2 list. Without a little glob of silicon on my "hook" to depress the activator more, my windows will not go past "top operation" mode.

Lets hope its something stupid easy like a fuse and not the immobilizer. Main reason I keep hounding for it, is that my 99 did the same thing... first it was the keyless entry not working, then the windows, and then finally no start.
keep us updated!

I have to ask, Spencer... Did u end up having to replace ur immobilizer?

OK, so another update...

I'm pretty sure the roof is a separate issue so I'll stop crying about it (on this thread anyway... Lol). The final solution to travesty that is the convertible top circuitry is still to just remove it all and go manual. In this case, I'm thinking the problem is the micro switch above the windshield.

As for the windows and locks...
I pulled the seat and didn't find any relays for the windows or locks. I did find the mysterious immobilizer however. (Porsche part#: 123-car-no-longer-workie-because-frunk-you-customers-thats-why).

Heres some pictures because why not... Everyone loves pictures.

The well under the seats and wiring harness. No crimps or damage to the wires. Some older moisture indication (slight discoloration) on the carpet back against the firewall but none on the immobilizer or in the well.
http://i1282.photobucket.com/albums/...ps7dcb4333.jpg

The connectors under the seats. No indication of moisture or corrosion. That and I'm pretty confident all this bs is related to making the seats move around.
http://i1282.photobucket.com/albums/...psc70bb617.jpg

The immobilizer connections. All look good and clean. No hint of corrosion of any kind.
http://i1282.photobucket.com/albums/...ps63d5bc56.jpg

Another one...
http://i1282.photobucket.com/albums/...ps7d0d130b.jpg

This component looks brand frunking new...
http://i1282.photobucket.com/albums/...ps768957bf.jpg

Seriously, it looks like it was installed a few weeks ago. No discoloration, no dust, nothing. Shiney and new. If this thing is the problem, I don't what to say. I'll probably just shake my head in sad amazement.

Where should I go from here? I'm totally open to suggestions...

after 48 hours of every fan i could own blowing on the dang thing it worked, and has since!
scrape all connections to ensure no micro corrosion and put back together with DE grease, if it works hell yea, otherwise Im out of ideas lol
Test the voltage coming from those wires maybe??? besides testing against a proven immobilzer, not sure how to know if yours is toast or not. :confused:

Edit: how does the ground look? its right there in the first pic, could be a shoddy or corroded ground?

Yeah, I thought about that ground after the fact. I did look it over while removing everything and it looked fine but didn't actually pull it off and emory cloth the shift out it like i had wanted to originally...

I'll probably go back and do that tomorrow just to remove it from the list of maybe's.

Just outta of curiosity, does anyone know how to test these things? What is the pin layout? What can a guy and his multi-meter do to determine good or bad. As much as I like to claim magical properties of these boxes, there's a design function at work. What is it? This is not Harry Potter BS. Its a machine so someone has to know how to ask it if its good, bad, and/or intermittently good/bad.

Why is everybody on ebay selling immobilizers with an ecu and a key head? And for $800?!? Can u not just replace one of the components? Do you seriously have to replace the entire electrical system of the car?

From what I've read on these forums and elsewhere...

Porsche doesn't have anything called an Immobilizer Box or an ECU. Porsche calls the computer under the seat (of a Boxster) the Drive Box.

In case you forgot, they look like this:
http://i1282.photobucket.com/albums/...ps768957bf.jpg

The Drive Box chip contains one control module for the immobilizer, central locking, and alarm units. The DME (digital motor electronics) or the ECM (engine control module) which are the same thing is mounted in the trunk.

Ok, so what I gather...
The transponder in the key somehow talks to the immobilizer who is in constant communication with the DME. The DME is fully capable of doing all the heavy thinking for the car. It drives the engine under all conditions but just like Tina Turner in Road Warrior (Beyond Thunderdome), it (the DME) wont lift a finger without permission from the midget (the immobilizer) riding around on the big dude's back.

Also, apparently there's a whole frunking list of bizarre trips that can give the immobilizer all the excuse it needs to refuse to start. Things like leaving the key in the lock too long without actually starting your car. Sitting in the drivers seat for too long without starting your car. Opening the driver's door and sitting in the driver's seat with out first facing the Fatherland and raising a single arm salute. And many others...

For your enjoyment and to remind you who runs Bartertown (aka who owns your car - hint NOT YOU):
Who runs Bartertown? - YouTube

As for the Central Locking Unit...

I'm not sure whats going on though that's clearly the problem with my car.

I did find this on Pedro's site:
We have had great advances in ECU reprogramming in the last couple of years.
Some services which were considered impossible on a Porsche’s DME, are now available to the general public.
For special applications, such as race cars, we can now eliminate the immobilizer function, allowing the driver to not need the key to start the car.
We are now also able to completely eliminate and remove the CLU (Central Locking Unit) and it’s (heavy) wiring harness under the driver’s seat which can easily get water damaged and go completely haywire when caught in a downpour while at the track, rendering the session if not the weekend a total loss and a very expensive event for the racer

Looks like the price is $500 but that's for a reflash.

It'd be awesome to go thru and do some other up grades such as an exhaust, ported TB, etc and incorporate all that into a reflash that also removes the immobilizer and the central locking BS.

Get all the reliability enhancments (and get this midget off my back so I can get down to the business of running Bartertown like a boss!) and realize some pretty decent power gains for one low price? Yes please!

Sam,

Sorry to hear about your dilemma, and I hate to say it, but I wonder "what's next?" in the continuing saga of a man trying to work out all the bugs in our machine.

Thanks for the tips you have given. Here's one that may help you.

Dead or Faulty ECU? Here are a few ideas and solutions - Specialized ECU Repair

They re-program ECUs. Also, can modify certain parameters of that monkey to make it scoot! Especially with those mods you have done. It may be expensive but you sound like you are there already.

Keep us posted! It's funny how you can never post enough pics…although thank you for trying. It still just generates more interest!

Go get the frunkin' thing working again!

Great post, Mark! Made me lol from start to finish. Haha. Yeah, this piece of shift is def starting to test my limited reserves of patience. Glad u enjoy the pics and effort it takes to work a Thunderdome reference into general conversation. :D

I'd like to thank Spencer for being right on the money...

This little fuse here:
http://i1282.photobucket.com/albums/...psdad1518b.jpg

ended up having some corrosion on it. The spades on the fuse looked pretty decent but the connections inside that the fuse pushes into had some corrosion. Not much but a very little bit of discoloration. I got them all cleaned out, cleaned the fuse, and voila - suddenly the whole system works again.

Stupid car.

What's funny is the old 77 scout's fuse box looks like it suffered a mild fire that was put out with salt water and has never had so much as a hiccup. Ridiculous.

I'm now absolutely certain that Mild Overhaul #2 scheduled for next winter will include removing the central locking system and the immobilizer along with a good old fashioned ECU reflash to free up some horsepower.

Meanwhile, all the connections were lubed up good and deep y'all (read that in a southern accent) in dielectric grease. I'll seal the living shift outta the box with Vaseline or something tomorrow before tossing the seat back in.