Look What I Found - 986 Forum - The Community for Porsche Boxster & Cayman Owners

pjq · 02-22-2013, 04:18 PM

Just removed my transmission this evening and look what I found! The second photo really shows what you don't want to see. I wonder what I'll find as I keep digging?
I suffered the death rattle back in Nov. so I'm in the process of removing my engine.

Jager · 02-22-2013, 04:39 PM

Not good... Center bolt of the IMS bearing assembly broke. That mean the IMS was all over the place for awhile (until you shut-down).

Ckrikos · 02-22-2013, 04:40 PM

Did your motor seize? Or did you shut it down in time?

Perfectlap · 02-22-2013, 04:59 PM

what was the year and mileage? Oil used?

pjq · 02-23-2013, 03:27 AM

2nd owner, 2004 Boxster S, 40000 miles, Mobil1 0-W40 just changed approx. 6-7 hrs before failure. oil changed every 7 - 8000miles.
start up shiftting 1st - 2nd approx 2300 RPM then when engine up to temp. shiftting 3200 - 3500RPM unless I want to pass!
Engine shut down on her own, then when stopped I restarted, she stated immediately, that was my introduction to the "death rattle". Not knowing the problem I restarted the engine, briefly, two more times after this.

thom4782 · 02-23-2013, 04:40 AM

We'll keep our collective fingers crossed that the rattle you heard was the broken stud rattling around like it was in a clothes dryer. Hopefully the races and bearings remained intact.

Sunsport · 02-24-2013, 03:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pjq

2nd owner, 2004 Boxster S, 40000 miles, Mobil1 0-W40 just changed approx. 6-7 hrs before failure. oil changed every 7 - 8000miles.
start up shiftting 1st - 2nd approx 2300 RPM then when engine up to temp. shiftting 3200 - 3500RPM unless I want to pass!
Engine shut down on her own, then when stopped I restarted, she stated immediately, that was my introduction to the "death rattle". Not knowing the problem I restarted the engine, briefly, two more times after this.

Well, the fact that is started fine after is a good sign - if valves were bent it would have run poorly. Hopefully it's a simple bearing replacement and then back on the road for the nicer weather.

Good to see another Eastern Canadian on here as well!

Timco · 02-24-2013, 04:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sunsport

Well, the fact that is started fine after is a good sign - if valves were bent it would have run poorly. Hopefully it's a simple bearing replacement and then back on the road for the nicer weather.

Good to see another Eastern Canadian on here as well!

Loved the Shipping News!!

thom4782 · 02-24-2013, 07:39 AM

Here's some suggestions on what to do next. You probably have already thought of these things, but in case you haven't, here goes.

First, check the oil filter for debris. If its clear, that's a good sign. If it's filled with metal, then you'll likely find the IMSB failed completely.

Next, remove the flywheel and IMSB flange. Assuming it looks in good shape except for the broken stud, test the IMSB for play. It's a good sign if there isn't any play or its minimal.

Then remove the bearing from the engine block. There are many discussions in this and other forums on the proper procedure to remove the IMSB. Hopefully, there is enough stud length left to use the extraction tool. If not, others might suggest what to do if the remaining stud is too short.

Once the bearing is out, remove the bearing's inner and outer seals to see if the bearing's race and its ball bearings are intact. If they are, that's another very good sign.

Next, check the IMSB seat in the engine block to see if it was damaged. Hopefully not because it's not repairable if I recall correctly.

You should consult others more knowledgeable than me, but if the oil filter and bearing are in great shape other than a broken stud, you might have dodged a bullet.

Let us know how it turns out.

pjq · 02-26-2013, 06:32 AM

I can only wish I doged that bullet!
Nope it hit me but I'm still not sure just how big the damage, I'm getting the impression it was pretty big. There was metal pieces in the sump and fillings in an oil sample. Here's the latest (I really need to put together a full story).
The engine is down and today all going well I will have slid it out and clear. I had to pull the IMSB flange off to see what was in there, below is the hell hole BUT where is the bearing!!! I guess thats the inner race in the tube. Nothing fell out this is what I found after removing the flange.
Any thoughts if its still rebuildable?

BYprodriver · 02-26-2013, 06:39 AM

You need to fully disassemble the engine to check for excessive wear caused by the IMSB ball bearings on the loose.

pjq · 02-26-2013, 06:46 AM

Bypro, ok that was what I was thinking but what about the block? How can I check if the bearing turned/spun in the race of the block?

thom4782 · 02-26-2013, 07:13 AM

You might call the folks at Flat 6 Innovations and ask their advice on whether to go through the effort of tearing down the engine. They've got lots, if not the most, experience out there.

Perfectlap · 02-26-2013, 07:57 AM

You have to wonder if there's a German Porsche engineer somewhere still saying to himself "see Fritz I told you the little balls were not good a choice"

BYprodriver · 02-26-2013, 08:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pjq

Bypro, ok that was what I was thinking but what about the block? How can I check if the bearing turned/spun in the race of the block?

Once the support bolt/axle breaks the IMS just bounces around. There is no way to know how much damage was caused without inspecting every surface inside the engine. You can get a sneek peak by removing the oilpump housing behind the front engine mount & inspect the 2 gears inside to see if the metal grit got through the pump.

shadrach74 · 02-26-2013, 08:10 AM

This engine has been contaminated with metal . I am amazed it did not fail catastrophically. The good news is that valves did not hit pistons. The bad news is that it needs to be torn down to retrieve all the bearing bits that have been traveling through the engine. Some folks may tell you that you can flush the system and replace the bearing (though it looks like the IMS itself is trashed), but I think there's no way to flush the engine of all of that metal without a tear down...

pjq · 02-26-2013, 08:27 AM

Thanks for the feed back.
ByPro what are you looking for to determine if an oil pump is still good or needs to be replaced? (just thinking ahead)

BYprodriver · 02-26-2013, 08:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pjq

Thanks for the feed back.
ByPro what are you looking for to determine if an oil pump is still good or needs to be replaced? (just thinking ahead)

You will see when you get it apart, it's supposed to be a very tight fit in there. I was more thinking if you see alot of metal in the gears you can better judge if you might be able to save this engine or start looking for another engine to get your car running sooner.

pjq · 02-26-2013, 08:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BYprodriver

You will see when you get it apart, it's supposed to be a very tight fit in there. I was more thinking if you see alot of metal in the gears you can better judge if you might be able to save this engine or start looking for another engine to get your car running sooner.

Yeahhhh.... but I really want to see what went wrong inside this block of aluminum.

BYprodriver · 02-26-2013, 09:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pjq

Yeahhhh.... but I really want to see what went wrong inside this block of aluminum.

Yeah, for sure you want to find out what's reusable, but you might decide at some point that it will be better to buy another engine. You want to take your time disassembling the engine & inspect every part as you go.