Autoweek article of 54.5 mpg
 

This weeks Autoweek has the present Administration's EPA goal. Taking into account that Mr Potus is a complete and pure a-hole it should be no surprise that the goals as they stand now will probably destroy the car industry as we know it now. 54.5 mpg fleet which is a daunting task all for the sake of pushing more prius cars on us and volts on us. I fail to see what business is it of government to impose their noses into the car industry. We can see how efficiently govt works, look at their foray into providing mortgages for everyone by the likes of Maxine Waters, Mr Potus when he was a Senator in training, Barney Franks, Sen Dodd, Pres Clinton, and we are living through that nightmare right now, how trillions of dollars from everyone has evaporated but you would think this is enough no there is more. Mr Potus health program that was underestimated by another 111 billion but what the heck we already have a trillion and half in deficit. 111 billion more is a drop in the bucket. Where is the country going? Class warfare, distribution of wealth, outright confiscation of your wages and liberties dam it reminds me of Cuba. Let's bring back Che as treasurer like Fidel did, this way he could rob you blind as he goes to El Morro to shoot a few more Cubans or if not administer the coup de gras. I have always maintained that the people that voted for Potus are those who believe that Americans owe something to the blacks because of slavery. Is pure bs and here we are with an incompetent Potus that is autocratic , self empowered to change the fabric of this country. At this point I can see why it would not a bad idea of replacing both houses with burros. That's it for tonight's rant of I had it with this government. I am sure there will be issues that will ignite the wick.:dance:

I don't understand what the problem is. VW made a deisel rabbit in the 70s that got somewhere in the 60-70 mpg range, so the technology is there. The real problem is that car manufacturers have convinced americans that they have to have 300 hp, 5000 lbs tanks , which of course will never get good gas mileage.

Pilot, asking any industry to spend money without a profit return always goes over like a fart in church. Each time the mileage standard has been raised, there have been grumbles followed by acceptance and accomplishment. IMO, without a kick in the ass we would not have:

Air bags
five mile an hour bumpers
seat belts
clean output standards such as everyone's favorite the catalytic converter
head rests

And the point is? It is not the governments obligation nor duty to legislate these sorts of things. The reason Americans fought and died in wars was so that there would be no big brother. It always amazes me what people are willing to give up so that they don't have to take responsibilities for their own actions. Ed

Pilot. If you are so fed up, why don't you move to a country where there are no taxes and the only function carried out by the government is maintaining the military? There are several countries that fit this description, where the free market rules, completely unfettered by government intervention. Somalia comes to mind. That's the great thing about the United States, nobody is forcing you to stay! Just think, you can probably even watch FOX news on the internet in Somalia and laugh at the rest of us still suffering here in the good old U S of A. You can be driving an armored Humvee that gets 4 miles to the gallon and the government won't force you into a vehicle that gets better gas mileage. When you decide to go, just let me know and I'll pitch in for your plane ticket.

My dad is very sick so excuse the tantrum but... Are you @$%&* kidding me dude? Mandating mileage is how you see the government being big brother? They can expose you to radiation each time you fly increasing your risk of leukemia but you think the gas mileage is offensive to those who served for us? We have people jailed from sea to shining sea for doobies and you want to make the government an Ahole about mileage!!! I suggest you broaden your view of what is too much oversight. Comon, we used to be able to smoke in planes, bowling alleys, restaurants. A DWI meant you hit something or someone, you could have a beer on your #$^& boat. It's twenty effing twelve and sodomy is still illegal with your spouse in some southern states! If you want to discuss the loss of freedoms the list is mighty long and needs to include more than a call for better gas mileage. Think of what we could save without a war on drugs or the eradication program for prostitution, it's only been around since Jesus any year now it should end.....

Bravo I see that some of you already agree with me, while some already dranked the Kool Aid others see what the role of government is. It should be to protect our borders deliver the mail and maintain the highways for commerce. Regarding the air bags, and other safety items I am a believer that time would have made the manufacturers improve their cars no need of Big Brother telling you what to do. We belong to a forum that is all about Porsche and do you think that the EPA's mandates, an agency that has no accountability to the public and are not elected, is not going to drive the design performance of future models because they have spoken and that is ipso facto. To that is a say screw the EPA dismantle the dam agency. All of you that are so naive and have this Alice in Wonderland outlook of the things government does; you are now ready to buy the Brooklyn Bridge. Wait until these unelected idiots destroy the means of power plants in this country, pipe lines that can't be built sell us into paying a cartel whatever they want wiping out your savings and your worth and at the same time go to war to defend them. Gee what a great idea is that. EPA does not allow atomic energy, has stopped breeder reactors, stopped fusion investigation into technologies which are so far away and that will never produce enough electricity in the near future. Solar does not cut it, geothermal is not ready, aeolian is not working. Look at the politicians, Boxer stopped the solar because it would harm the desert, the Kennedys stopped a wind farm of Mass because it would spoil the Kennedy's retreat's mansion, who are we kidding. These people have their own agenda based on whose pocket is paying the freight. Right now with the present POTS the Unions, the environmental nazis and the looney left fringe is in control. In my soul and my live experience seeing this negative reaction to anything that spells progress for the country and the business environment is the worst that could have happened to the country and to those who see it different we will see who is right and who is wrong. In a few years we will see how much more moneys are fleeced by the government vs. how much money you could have spent in buying another Porsche. Hey maybe ours will be a relic of a era. The Porsche brand will be a bicycle. I know that I already got the usual bs from the liberal go back to where you are from yet they offer no solutions to anything other than " because you are doing better we are going to take more from you and give it to the family that has been on welfare for the last 30 years, the poor souls. I thought the War on Poverty that Johnson initiated was the solution. Gee kind to think of it has not worked, has it? Add up all the money thrown away there. The rest can continue drinking the Kool Aid.
Hasta Luego Amigos.

Why don't we keep it about Porsche and not politics? I am sure there is some other forum where your racist, uninformed opinions will not only be welcomed, but applauded.

I once wrote an editorial on Newsday about a teacher who got involved in denouncing an illegal alien family. I received the same lame response from someone that did not have the cojones to write his name down. His little rant was that I protested too much. The point of my argument was the fact his job is to educate not to be the immigration services. I ended the article that maybe this teacher-INS agent in disguised would have done the same if it was an Irish family blonde with blue eyes? For your information I do watch Fox, read the NY Times, leftist rag whose mantra is all the news worth printing for our liberal viewpoint and if not will fabricate them, Wall Street Journal, and also listen to NPR to see what the left is spinning. I am also an engineer and had my own business. Im not going to insult you because I have much better manners and if you don't agree I suggest you do as educated people do rather than sending me to Somalia. Man you could have sent me to Europe where the cars still do 200 mph in the Autobahn or Monaco a tax sheltered so let me know if that offer is still open I want to see the Grand Prix of Monaco in July on your dime.:D

I'm not sure what I think about this idea, but I would certainly say you're living in a fantasy land if you think government regulation isn't necessary. Corporations generally operate with a view to short and at best medium term profitability.

It takes regulation to force them into longer term views and the behaviours that go along with that.

It's government regulation, for instance, that stops corporations from disposing of toxic waste into the sources of your drinking water or from buying the house next to yours and turning it into a noisy, dirty, smelly factory.

So let's be honest about this. It's not government interference per se that's the issue here. You just don't think having more efficient and cleaner cars is terribly desirable. If you did, you'd be all for it, just like you're all for the government regulations that stop prostitutes walking up and down near your home looking for customers.

Unfortunately, both Governments and Big Buisiness will take advantage of situations if allowed to, so there needs to be a fine balancing act on all sides.
Its been the same since the neanderthal living in the cave next door was able to drag your daughter off to his hole and leave you with a crushed skull....just because he could
And nobody has mentioned (President) Ralph Nader yet ???

As gas mileage goes up, the oil companies will raise their prices to keep the same level of profit. So no matter what happens, one way or another we are the ones that will loose in the end.

No politics!

No politics!

+1

Regardless of your ideas on government's responsibilities - this is not the place. Period.

I would add pothole repairs for another thing that government can do. Corporations create wealth and jobs government create programs and taxes. In what I am arguing against is that we have an agency EPA of unelected officials telling us what car we will all drive. So much for choice.I could do without the prostitute near my house and the toxic waste since you are making this personal.
The market forces will dictate the size and economy of cars. Plenty of Prius out there for those who want that vehicle. Last point I live in NY where we are taxed to the hilt and that is the reality. Your insinuation of living in fantasy is sophomoric and condescending also, I am not a racist as one looney called me. I am from Cuba and I have called many a times a spic by both whites and blacks. I have no problem with them their racist slurs are a disease from here.:barf:

If you had paid attention in Civics class in High School you would remember that the only rights and obligations that the Feds have is to enter into treaties with foreign governments, keep a standing army to inforce those treaties, regulate INTERSTATE commerce and produce coinage of an intrinsic value equal to face value. All other rules were left to the states to dictate. You don't like it in New York--move to Ohio. I do not need the Feds to tell me how I can live my life, but I also do not expect them to take care of me if I screw up. With freedom comes responsibility. Ed

Pilot, It's not a perfect world, my cousin works for EPA, she spearheaded the cleaning of one of the most polluted lakes in the country; it's nearly swim-able now. There are spirits phenomenal and bad in every organization, what counts IMO is doing the right thing the best you can within the confines of your employment. The cafe standards are not going to take your sports cars away, Porsche already has a 911 that outputs cleaner air than the intake air depending on the city. I understand your point and this post is not meant to negate it.
PS Just who was it you thought was going to do anything about the "toxic waste" near your domicile? Hint hint, it starts with an E.

Oh and Ed, when I was in HS it was a different world, nothing stays the same, the government has become more over reaching I agree with you on that. I truly agree on the responsibility point.

Last thought then out to hospital.. One reason there is no personal responsibility is due to lawyers. Just who was it that got the "do not step" sticker put on the paint holder section of the ladder? Did said individual profit from such stupidity? Buy a ladder these days it looks like a billboard. How bout the lawsuit over spilled hot coffee? If I'm that judge it's dismissed, coffee is supposed to be hot unless otherwise specified. Too many people in this country trying to win the big deal fo the day for being effing DOLTS.

Can we get back to Boxster issues? :(

"I have always maintained that the people that voted for Potus are those who believe that Americans owe something to the blacks because of slavery."

Looney to call you a racist? Yeah, you are right. Nobody could ever have voted for him because he was the smartest candidate who best connected with the American people, or because he promised to end the war in Afghanistan, or because he wanted to stop greedy health insurance companies from abusing their policy holders, or because he wanted to stop reckless banking practices that plunged us into a recession, or for a myriad of other reasons that made him a better candidate than McCain/Palin. Your original post (as quoted) surely sounds racist to me.

Folks the quickest way to end political threads is not to post on them. Don't get lured in to wrestling with the pig, all you get is dirty and the pig likes it.

Agreed. Porsche only from now on.

Im not going to weigh in on the CAFE standards issue but i just have to quickly opine that your basic assumptions about the cause of the housing mess really leave out nearly the whole rest of the story. The securitization of mortgages and the complicity of the credit rating agencies to sell those securities to investors worldwide was the real culprit that kept the musical chairs game going year after year. It was corporate greed that BOTH political parties enabled. also, if you removed subprime and fannie and freddie from the equation ENTIRELY, we still would have had a once in a life time bubble that wiped out $20 trillion globally, enough to buy China three times over. The SEC lifting capital requirements for the five largest investment banks in 2004 which allowed Lehman and Bear to bet 40 to 1 was another principal cause. Point is the notion that this catastrophe was forced on the financial institutions by the government is false. They were given all the rope they had been begging for years. As Roger Lowenstein famously wrote in " When Genius Failed" its always the leverage that blows you up not the fatal flawe of the investment idea.

These " no politics " statements that have been posted on this thread remind me of what my Mother used to say when she would start a discussion, and when she would see that she was losing badly say" I don't want to talk about it any more". The political climate in our country does effect our ability to enjoy our cars.

Is there a way to tell if my spoiler has deployed once I exceed 75? I can't see it with the rear view mirror, and when I'm driving that fast I usually don't have the free time to get out and check it.

Sorry, am I out of place?

Not out of place at all. Really, the only way to confirm deployment is to get a photo-camera speeding ticket. This way you can see the license number AND the spoiler, and have absolute confirmation.

Good luck, and let us know how it works.

you give great advice. Are you in the mortgage business by the way?

Is that still a business??? It sounds so 2008...

I agree. The political climate does impact our ability to enjoy our cars. I am not a fan of driving on broken, pothole pocked roads or over bridges that might fall down. We have plenty of both in western Pennsylvania. Unless and until some dollars are spent on infrastructure, I am afraid the road situation is only going to get worse and we'll be facing additional bridge closures due to safety concerns. I just learned that the US is now a net exporter of oil. Until that changes and speculators are taken out of the energy market, we will be faced with ever increasing fuel prices. The president of Exxon/Mobil said that speculation accounts for an extra dollar to dollar and a half per gallon of gasoline. As far as political discussions are concerned, winning or losing has nothing to do with keeping the discussion here centered around our cars, which is the common thread among those who frequent the forum. There are plenty of other places to rant about our government.

For those who believe CAFE standards don't affect car design, performance are simply sticking their heads in the sand. I don't understand what has happened to all these anti-politics censors because since I joined which was years ago Bruce, the founder of this group, used to have political comments every day. Nothing was sacred. Maybe the PC crowd and the liberal intelligentsia has taken over:barf:. As far as I am concerned I will make my comments when I see fit as I have done in the past and will do in the future. I love Porsche cars and will do forever or in your case until EPA allows me to enjoy it. I don't mind being criticized but being called a racist is personal since I been called lots worst names and attacked by both blacks and white because my wife and I were speaking Spanish. I know the effete snobs will be saying oh my god but c'est la vie.

Politics aside, if you take this approach : (Quote) "As far as I am concerned I will make my comments when I see fit as I have done"


Maybe this: "I been called lots worst" is in your approach or the boulder on your shoulder. Try getting to know people, they run deeper than left right leaning morays which I noticed you took a minute to backhand bash but hey nobody better try it on you and the Mrs. got it.. You are the only dude I ever saw use the term " liberal intelligentsia" on a motorhead BB

In response to the comment "For those who believe CAFE standards don't affect car design, performance are simply sticking their heads in the sand.", I thought about cars of today vs. cars of the 1960's and early 1970's, before CAFE standards came into effect and concluded that pre CAFE standards cars are definitely slower, worse handling and less safe. Maybe someone can think of a 1960's car that can out accelerate a new 997, but they are few and far between. Maybe an AC Cobra could do it, but you would never want to drive one of those every day, let alone in the winter or foul weather. There are many mini vans that can out accelerate, out handle and stop quicker than the "muscle cars" that were worshiped in the 60's and early 70's. For crying out loud, a base 986 Boxster gets 30 miles per gallon on the highway and out handles just about any 1960's or 70's Porsche. It's zero to 60 times are comparable to a pre 1990 911 and it may even have a higher top end. Is there any evidence out there that CAFE standards have had a negative effect on performance and/or car design or is it just someone's opinion? Have any performance car manufacturers come out and said they would be building a 300 MPH car that does zero to 60 in 2.3 seconds if it weren't for CAFE standards? I understand that manufacturers have to work harder and build a better, more innovative product to meet the standards, but is that necessarily a bad thing?

? I understand that manufacturers have to work harder and build a better, more innovative product to meet the standards, but is that necessarily a bad thing?[/QUOTE]


All I am saying is the following that the EPA agency is now dictating where the car industry is going rather than the consumer. I know no one is a saint including car makers but now the EPA is mandating standards that will change cars radically by going double the gas mileage, that is a huge leap of technology, can it be done ? Positively yes but only god knows the pricing for such a lightweight and diminutive car. The market should decide which companies will survive and which won't. I will bet that some other President will hopefully soon after Nov will deal with reigning back the EPA and modify the targets. There is plenty of oil and gas out there that could be used in the cars if only we apply ourselves to extract it instead of being at the mercy of OPEC and seeing our wallets fleeced by speculators, hedge funds and the like. I don't see how this is an upsetting issue since it goes down the consumer deciding rather than some bureaucrat deciding what is good for you.

The same thing happens every few years; the Gov sets new, unobtainable mileage standards, then the auto industry weighs in, the standards are eased, and life goes on.

Why is the 'same old dance' suddenly such cause for overreaction?

All I am saying is the following that the EPA agency is now dictating where the car industry is going rather than the consumer. I know no one is a saint including car makers but now the EPA is mandating standards that will change cars radically by going double the gas mileage, that is a huge leap of technology, can it be done ? Positively yes but only god knows the pricing for such a lightweight and diminutive car. The market should decide which companies will survive and which won't. I will bet that some other President will hopefully soon after Nov will deal with reigning back the EPA and modify the targets. There is plenty of oil and gas out there that could be used in the cars if only we apply ourselves to extract it instead of being at the mercy of OPEC and seeing our wallets fleeced by speculators, hedge funds and the like. I don't see how this is an upsetting issue since it goes down the consumer deciding rather than some bureaucrat deciding what is good for you.[/QUOTE]






Consumers do not dictate what type of cars the auto companies will manufacture. Automobile manufacturers would never leave something as important as consumer choice to the consumer. The auto manufacturers dictate what consumers want by paying billions of dollars a year on advertising.

Why do you think starting in the 80s that all of a sudden trucks and SUVs became popular? Was it because consumers wanted them? No. That was the time that the EPA started putting the screws on auto manufacturers to raise gas mileage. But guess what, trucks and SUVs are not cars so the auto manufacturers had a free pass on the auto EPA restrictions, which meant that they could realize more profits on trucks and SUVs. Exploiting that loophole, auto manufacturers spent billions of dollars on advertising, showing macho guys in jeeps and SUVs, with hot chicks on their arms and the consumers fell in lockstep and bought trucks.

So don't think that the EPA causes consumers to give up their right to choose. That right has always been taken away from them by the auto companies.

Consumers do not dictate what type of cars the auto companies will manufacture. Automobile manufacturers would never leave something as important as consumer choice to the consumer. The auto manufacturers dictate what consumers want by paying billions of dollars a year on advertising.


So don't think that the EPA causes consumers to give up their right to choose. That right has always been taken away from them by the auto companies.[/QUOTE]

In a free market consumers dictate with their purchases the market , it is up to manufacturers to get it right. If not they go out of business. If I don't like what I see I won't buy it. That's not such a difficult concept is it. The EPA forces the manufacturer to comply with their mandates by redesigning the cars to be more fuel efficient , lighter with smaller engines whether you like it or not not the other way around.