Entry-level Porsche (identical to Boxster but cheaper) put on hold

[986_inquiry]

We Hear: Porsche Worried About Entry-Level Roadster, May Shelve - WOT on Motor Trend

"the 550 successor was originally slated to arrive some time in 2014, slotting beneath the Boxster and acting as the entry-level model."

They're putting it on hold for now, but it's based on the Volkswagen BlueSport concept which sounds exactly like the Boxster and looks very similar
2013 Volkswagen BlueSport Roadster Review and Prices - Consumer Guide Automotive

mid-engine
2-seater convertible
6-speed
~2,645 lbs
2.0 turbodiesel or 2.0 turbo
0-60 in 6.2 and 50mpg highway with turbodiesel

price: estimated 23-26k

The BlueSport is also on hold, but I was just wondering what you guys thought of this, Volkswagen planning a Boxster clone and Porsche making a less expensive "Boxster"?

[tonycarreon]

the sub-boxster / 550 / bluesport that was on, then off... well it's back on... someday.

Porsche CEO Mueller: Sub-Boxster 550 Spyder Still On The Table

The main concern isn't the car's performance or the brand's technical ability to produce it--instead, it's a matter of brand image. If there's "any risk" the brand could be harmed by a lower-priced, entry-level roadster, says Mueller, it will be postponed to a later date.

[pothole]

If it does appear, I doubt it will have a naturally aspirated flat six, which it what it needs to catch my interest. Flat fours are nice enough, but they're just not as delightful as flat sixes. And turbo charging just does crappy things to the response and engine note.

A flat four might even be in doubt if it has to share a great deal of its engineering with VW. The VW version will almost definitely be transverse in-line four which is rather different from longitudinal flat four.

Done right with a flat six, it could be spectacular - probably would be similar to an early 986. But I can't see it happening that way.

[fivepointnine]

it might boost the image of the Boxster though................

[TerryT]

Originally Posted by fivepointnine

it might boost the image of the Boxster though................

..........Or not.

[blue2000s]

Not actually dead, as it turns out.

Deep Dive: The Porsche 550 Revival Lives - Automobile Magazine

Only if this car comes in at Miata-type weight (2400-2500 pounds) is it worth considering.

[thstone]

Lots of problems with launching a new car into this segment, namely;

1. Miata. The Miata owns the inexpensive roadster market and there is a new model already on the way.

2. Audi TT. Porsche has to worry about cannibalizing TT sales.

3. Nissan Z. The Z has more power and performance. Yes, the Porsche name carries a premium but ...

4. Porsche 924. A lot of people will associate the 551 with the infamy of Porsche's last attempt to create an inexpensive entry-level car and stay away.

5. Branding. Does Porsche really want think of any Porsche as "entry level"? That is what BMW's are for.

Thus, Porsche would actually have to deliver a better car than the competition at the same price point and this simply isn't Porsche's forte - and especially not when they are focused on selling $80,000 trucks to soccer moms, $100,000 sedans to Chinese businessmen, and $120,000+ varients of the new 991.

[Snowman]

Originally Posted by thstone

Does Porsche really want think of any Porsche as "entry level"? That is what BMW's are for.

This will dilute the brand. I'm sorry they want to follow BMW's business model. BMW used to be exclusive and high-end. Now, thanks to entry level BMWs, they're everywhere. What used to be a nice car that you worked and saved to achieve is now something I probably see fifty of every day when I commute to and from work. Here's hoping Porsche eventually abandons the entry-level.

[blue2000s]

Originally Posted by Snowman

This will dilute the brand. I'm sorry they want to follow BMW's business model. BMW used to be exclusive and high-end. Now, thanks to entry level BMWs, they're everywhere. What used to be a nice car that you worked and saved to achieve is now something I probably see fifty of every day when I commute to and from work. Here's hoping Porsche eventually abandons the entry-level.

There are two trucks and a huge sedan in Porsche's lineup now. Clearly, dilution isn't a concern to Porsche as the diluters are the cars that they actually make money on

Having said that, I totally disagree that a small true sports car would do anything but improve the portfolio. There's always been entry level Porsches. 914, 912, 924, 944 and the original Boxster were all compeditors with the entry level contemporaries. The Boxster has bloated into a GT that is just an artificial step below the 911. If anything, Porsche abandoned the entry level with the 986.2 and 987. With a real sports car, Porsche could bring the brand a car more true to the marque's heritage. If it's the buyer's goal to achieve exclusivity through purchasing a Porsche, they are already fooling themselves.

.

[Snowman]

I was speaking to the exclusivity of the brand, not of the people who drive them (people can't be exclusive). Perhaps the persona of the brand would have been more to my point. If Porsche wants to stay a luxury brand, then bringing out a $25,000 version will take away from that. If Omega wanted to sell more watches and have them become commonplace, they would make some that cost less than $3,000.

I was wrong about the Porsche SUV diluting the brand, so it's very possible I'm wrong about the Baby Boxster. In fact, I have a friend who has had a Cayenne for four years and she loves the thing. It's everything she wanted in a daily driver. She'll replace it with a second one when the time comes.

*edit*

The Boxster has bloated into a GT that is just an artificial step below the 911.

I agree with you about the size of the Boxster, by the way. True crow-eating will be when I buy the smaller Boxster a few years from now. I'll be sure to say goodbye as I move to whatever owners forum comes into existence for it. ;-)

[fivepointnine]

Originally Posted by Snowman

I was speaking to the exclusivity of the brand, not of the people who drive them (people can't be exclusive). Perhaps the persona of the brand would have been more to my point. If Porsche wants to stay a luxury brand, then bringing out a $25,000 version will take away from that. If Omega wanted to sell more watches and have them become commonplace, they would make some that cost less than $3,000.

I was wrong about the Porsche SUV diluting the brand, so it's very possible I'm wrong about the Baby Boxster. In fact, I have a friend who has had a Cayenne for four years and she loves the thing. It's everything she wanted in a daily driver. She'll replace it with a second one when the time comes.

*edit*



I agree with you about the size of the Boxster, by the way. True crow-eating will be when I buy the smaller Boxster a few years from now. I'll be sure to say goodbye as I move to whatever owners forum comes into existence for it. ;-)

Omega makes lots of watches for between $1500-$2000

but anyway............they are coming out with alot of models lately!

[NoGaBiker]

Originally Posted by blue2000s

The Boxster has bloated into a GT that is just an artificial step below the 911. If anything, Porsche abandoned the entry level with the 986.2 ...

??? Do you really see a big enough quantitative difference between a 2002 and 2003 986 to warrant moving the latter into the "bloated GT category?" Seriously?

[blue2000s]

Originally Posted by NoGaBiker

??? Do you really see a big enough quantitative difference between a 2002 and 2003 986 to warrant moving the latter into the "bloated GT category?" Seriously?

Weight and price. BTW, I'm not saying there's anything wrong with a GT. It's actually what most people want when they think they want a sports car. But there's significant weight differences between the first 2.5s and the last 986s.

[.lovemy986]

If you want to enter the contemporary Porsche car market a used 986 will do. It gives you a lot of bang for the buck if you find a good one. Plus the platform allows you to upgrade the motor and with the mid engine design gives you an uncanny feel of thenroad. The ims problems have made the boxster a very affordable car in this current market. And because they cranked out a lot of them the price point is ridiculous right now. You can buy one with a blown motor for peanuts. I bought a 98 boxster about 8 months ago with a factory hardtop and have put over 45k on it with just regular maintenance and a ball joint. Most people think my car is worth between 30 and 40k. If you want something you can upgrade and stay pretty much current with a liquid boxer motor an early 986 or 996 provide the ultimate Pcar platform for peanuts. Add some litronic headlights and 18" rims and your driving a solid Looking car. Who knows maybe one people will clue in and you won't be able to get into a 986 or 996 so easily. I bought a mint 928 once in the late 90s for $7500 and that car today is probably worth 20k. It couldn't be a better time to drive a Porsche when you can pick up the late 90s models for chump change.

[.lovemy986]

There will probably be some cross pollination with it and a new Porshe model, much like the cayenne and vw suv. The new Boxster looks a lot like an old NSX I saw recently, much to my surprise.

[Perfectlap]

"and acting as the entry-level model."


^ This is total crap. "entry-level" cars are for sedan builiders. Porsche, at least it used to be, is a sports car company. Each model has its purpose. If you want an uncomprised drop top you buy a Boxster (sorry Cabriolet), if you wat a tool for the track that is impractical everywhere else you buy a GT3, If you don't want pendulus cornering in your coupe you get a Cayman. Also, If you want "entry" into Porsche you can buy an old 911 or 944 any day of the week and save yourself a $500 monthly payment and in the end you'll spend a boat load less than making that last payment on new from the dealer Porsche.. If you buy an old 996 you can actually get a relibale car that won't cost you an arm and a leg for an engine rebuild.

The car media really needs to confine "entry-level" to companies like Mercedes, BMS and Jaguar. Or at the very minimum apply this term to a mini-Cayenne or or mini-Panamera since these aren't in the same realm as Boxsters, Caymans and Carreras.

[Ghostrider 310]

944 is getting a little old, the maintenance on that engine blows, the long throw shift linkage is vague and gets worse as it ages. Air conditioning = useless, huge rear window acts like greenhouse and finally the engine counter balancers are eh OK, motor sound sucks, all in all I'd take an older 986 for the same coin.

AND unless you have your foot through the injectors all the time and the engine screaming, Cobalt SS and worse are going to blow by you anywhere but at highway speed on a highway. 0-60= a small coffee.

[blue2000s]

Originally Posted by Ghostrider 310

944 is getting a little old, the maintenance on that engine blows, the long throw shift linkage is vague and gets worse as it ages. Air conditioning = useless, huge rear window acts like greenhouse and finally the engine counter balancers are eh OK, motor sound sucks, all in all I'd take an older 986 for the same coin.

AND unless you have your foot through the injectors all the time and the engine screaming, Cobalt SS and worse are going to blow by you anywhere but at highway speed on a highway. 0-60= a small coffee.

I LOVE 944s. As I have said before, I like them more than the 986 from a man-connected-to-machine experience. More road feel, more steering feel, you actually sit low in the car, and it's built like a tank.

[Overdrive]

Originally Posted by blue2000s

I LOVE 944s... you actually sit low in the car...

I happen to think I sit quite low in the Boxster...the steering wheel top is just below my eye level, and I'm well within the confines of the roll hoops...but I'm also 5'7". Just had to say something there to give you a hard time, blue. :dance:

Looking at it overall and where I'm (disappointedly) seeing Porsche go under the rule of VAG, the "entry-level" car doesn't need to exist. Porsche was built on racing heritage and prided itself on exclusivity and building a premium driving machine (I respect the M1 (NOT the 1M) and the M3, but BMW can stuff it), not just trying to get everyone within shouting distance to have a car with the Stuttgart crest on the hood. Sure, get them thinking about it, wishing for it, saving for it, and drooling over it outside the showroom glass, but don't start tossing out the equivalent of a VW Cabrio like hotcakes. This isn't a Scion tC we're talking about.

I happen to think the Boxster is quite entry-level, and always has been...it's your gateway vehicle into what is anticipated, by both the owner and the company, to become a long-time relationship and an eventual upgrade to one of the many variants of the flagship car. Yes, it's grown in girth/mass/weight as much as in sophistication, as do all cars that start out as raw, fun machines (RX-7, Celica Supra, etc.), but the base model is now putting out what the Boxster S was for horsepower 12 years ago...all with only a starting price increase of about $10k over a period of 15 years...if you ask me that's not bad for what's supposed to be a premium sports car (and yes, the Boxster started at $40k back in 1997) meant to get your feet wet in the world of Porsche and let you see what a performance oriented car can do. Yeah, it's no GT3, but it's still excellent fun to toss around and rewarding when you get it right...and you can comfortably drive it right back home when you're done.

As I've said before in a few different ways, when I think sports car, you can keep the radio, power everything, faux wood grain, and shiny accents and blah-blah-blah...all I want is a steering wheel, pedals, a manual shifter, the important gauges, plenty of horsepower to move a lightweight and well-sprung setup, and a place to plant my behind where all those things are within reach...you make me that, I'll buy it and thoroughly enjoy it and get my money's worth.

And it doesn't need to cost less than $40k...on the contrary, $40k plus keeps everyone else from having the same one, too.

[fivepointnine]

Originally Posted by Overdrive

I happen to think I sit quite low in the Boxster...the steering wheel top is just below my eye level, and I'm well within the confines of the roll hoops...but I'm also 5'7". Just had to say something there to give you a hard time, blue. :dance:

Looking at it overall and where I'm (disappointedly) seeing Porsche go under the rule of VAG, the "entry-level" car doesn't need to exist. Porsche was built on racing heritage and prided itself on exclusivity and building a premium driving machine (I respect the M1 (NOT the 1M) and the M3, but BMW can stuff it), not just trying to get everyone within shouting distance to have a car with the Stuttgart crest on the hood. Sure, get them thinking about it, wishing for it, saving for it, and drooling over it outside the showroom glass, but don't start tossing out the equivalent of a VW Cabrio like hotcakes. This isn't a Scion tC we're talking about.

I happen to think the Boxster is quite entry-level, and always has been...it's your gateway vehicle into what is anticipated, by both the owner and the company, to become a long-time relationship and an eventual upgrade to one of the many variants of the flagship car. Yes, it's grown in girth/mass/weight as much as in sophistication, as do all cars that start out as raw, fun machines (RX-7, Celica Supra, etc.), but the base model is now putting out what the Boxster S was for horsepower 12 years ago...all with only a starting price increase of about $10k over a period of 15 years...if you ask me that's not bad for what's supposed to be a premium sports car (and yes, the Boxster started at $40k back in 1997) meant to get your feet wet in the world of Porsche and let you see what a performance oriented car can do. Yeah, it's no GT3, but it's still excellent fun to toss around and rewarding when you get it right...and you can comfortably drive it right back home when you're done.

As I've said before in a few different ways, when I think sports car, you can keep the radio, power everything, faux wood grain, and shiny accents and blah-blah-blah...all I want is a steering wheel, pedals, a manual shifter, the important gauges, plenty of horsepower to move a lightweight and well-sprung setup, and a place to plant my behind where all those things are within reach...you make me that, I'll buy it and thoroughly enjoy it and get my money's worth.

And it doesn't need to cost less than $40k...on the contrary, $40k plus keeps everyone else from having the same one, too.

you basically just described a Lotus Elise........