*Pop! Pop!* went my top...
 

Well, I had a genius (read, EXTREME sarcasm) moment this past Friday. I was leaving work, lunch bag in one hand, phone in the other. When I reached my car I did something I never do and placed my lunch bag on the roof while I finished fiddling with my phone (so you can pretty much see where this is going). I won't kill your eyes with a novel, short version of it is that my lunch bag fell (without making a sound) under the clamshell and stopped the clamshell from fully closing. Figuring I'd raise the top back up and see what was up, the bag still there, the top came back up fully but the clamshell still did not close all the way (not known to me yet) and I heard a *POP! POP* and all movement and noise stopped, the idiot light (quite relevant :o ) on the dash still lit.

For those who care for any details: Again, me being the genius that I am, didn't bother to get out of the car and look to see what was up immediately, I just figured "ok, at least the top came all the way forward before that happened", so I closed the top and started my drive home. I look in my mirror about 2 miles from home and see the slightest bit of body color in my window. Look in the driver's side mirror, and see the clamshell is not down. So I figure "ok, something came out of adjustment and the safety pieces I've heard about broke to spare the top frame...joy." Then I happen to look in my passenger footwell and notice my lunch bag isn't there like it always is. So I start thinking "crap, did I drive off and it's sitting in the parking lot at work or on the edge of the highw.....aw, hell". Light bulb. Pulled off on a side road, got out, and saw the lunch bag (containing two plastic bottles and a sammich) trapped under my clamshell. I had to pry the clamshell up a bit to be able to muscle out the bag since the button on the dash now did nothing, but I did get it out and the clamshell edge went right down. Drove the rest of the way home and she's been in the driveway and braved the leftovers of the hurricane that came my way.

So, 3 things, I guess, that I need to know:

1. With the top broken in some unknown way at this point, what do I do to get it into the service position manually to observe what damage, if any, I've done?

2. Is the car driveable as is? I did drive it home with the top up and latched, but the light on the dash was still lit. Also, I've noticed that the passenger window no longer lowers when the handle is pulled, unsure if it just decided to go at the same time or has to do with the car thinking the top is out of position.

3. Most importantly, what & where exactly are the parts that I've heard about that break to protect the top from damage? And if those are indeed all that I broke, what sort of cost and work am I lookin at to make those repairs?

I figure I'm likely to answer my first question when I fish out the manual from the car, but any and all information and further questions members on here can provide will be greatly appreciated. No need to bust my chops, though, I've been doing that to myself since Friday afternoon, just looking for help. And for those who might be curious, the sandwich was still quite good, just kinda flattened out on one half. :rolleyes: Thank you in advance for the guidance!
:cheers: :o

Your top is balanced very well. Unlocking the latch will allow it to go down so be careful. Right behind the seats, outboard on both sides are 10" arms that have plastic cups on each end. These cups breaking is what you heard "POP'!, and they are now NOT hooked to your top. They're easy to replace ($100 a pair used) and you should be on your way. I've broke mine twice. Once my wife was dropping the top on the move and reversed it mid-way through the sequence...POP went the top.

Ooops - Jaxonalden just pipped me.....But here goes anyway.

Sounds like you have had an intersting weekend....I hope the sanger didn't have a soft filling :p
The popping was the plastic ball joints on the control rods breaking off. The originals (white coloured) are weak & have been superceded by updated (red) ones.
I thinke there are a couple of "how to" install new ball joints if you use the search function.

June this year I was opening my roof, about halfway down I heard one pop (not two like you) and noticed the roof opening skewed over. I tried closing the roof with the dash switch but only one side closed - the drivers side (RHS here in Oz) just sat there.
Long story short, looked in the manual and it describes that to get the roof safely stowed, you have to prize off the ball joint on each side with the special tool in the toolkit.
The downside is that there is a possibility to damage the clamshell paintwork when popping off the ball joints as the clam is in tension - you really need 2 pairs of hands to do it safely I think. My wife wasn't up to having trapped pinkies so I rang the OPC and asked for guidance - they recommended 2 people to reinstall and re-align everything up.
But it was possible to drive the car (~75 miles to the OPC) if I wanted to for them to replace the ball joints/rods etc and to realign & tension the roof.

So I folded (call me weak, but possible repainting the clamshell + roof repairs = wifes skinned knuckles were staring me in the face) & took it to the OPC for the repairs.
I won't scare you with the bill because $$ costs in Australia are about 2 - 3 times what you guys pay....

But I will say that the car is a lot quieter at high speed since the roof was retensioned.

Sometimes the locking clips pop off the arms and immediately fall into the drains.

Ok, I think I know what parts you guys are referring to, but I better ask just to make sure. When I changed out a few items in the engine bay last month I had to pop off these two ball joints caps connected to a couple of tension cables as I was working on getting the top in service position. Are these what you guys are referring to? Mine looked & felt like they were made of metal though, silver-ish in color rather than white or red.

Or am I mistaken there and there's a different component in the same area that has these white ball joint caps?

No bro, Those are just cables that hold the back of the top down. The arms we're talking about are connected to the convertable top transmission and the top itself. If your standing next to the car just behind the drivers/passengers seat and facing the car you can put your hand down inside the pocket that the top folds into. Down there you'll find your rods, make sure to get all the pieces out because they can clog your water drain holes. Replacing is easy, you just need a 10mm wrench.

Wish you lived closer, I'd come over and swap them out for you.

" The originals (white coloured) are weak & have been superceded by updated (red) ones."

Other way around actually - the originals are red. You don't have to buy the whole arm. I have a contact to just get the plastic cups, about $40 for the pair if I remember correctly. Pm me if you want the contact info. I'll look it up when I get home from work.

next pic: Boxster with some guy's lunch jammed under the clamshell :D

Damn it, Mark! I SHOULD'VE taken a picture of that!
:dance:

Thanks for the offer, I'll be PM-ing you. Hopefully when I get under the top tonight all I'll find is a couple of broken red or white pieces of plastic and nothing else.

And I appreciate the willingness to help me out, Jaxonalden. :cheers: Thanks for the clarification, and the next time I am in OKC (very likely sans Boxster) I'll hit you up just to say hi.

Looking forward to it OD. Mark T, I'd love to have that contact info for the plastic cups. I can't believe you can't buy just the plastic cups...noooooo, you have to buy the whole stinkin' arm, until now.

Thanks for the hook-up Mark T! :cheers:

my pleasure!
M~

Here's one of the clips:

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d6...6/P5200717.jpg

They go here:

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d6...6/P5200714.jpg

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d6...6/P5200715.jpg

Have you tried new clips?

Whoa....my mechanism looks totally different that that. If yours looks like that, my advice is totally worthless.

So wait...how do I get the clamshell up without power to the top mechanism? Do I really just have to pry it up by hand and disconnect its hinge?

Might be time to go all Popeye on some spinach.

Of course, that's the damn clam shell hinge, dah. OD, is you clam-shell up or down? If it's down you can run it up with the switch (the rods to the top are not hooked up because of the plastic cups being broken). Run up the clam-shell for clearance, then you'll have room to reach in and remove the broken rods. Until you get new parts you can now raise and lower your top manually...open the clam-shell, get out and raise/lower the top, get in and close the clam-shell.

When you get your new parts, open the clam-shell, pop the new rods on (at this time you'll need help because your top will be in a state of transition and you'll find this out when you hook up the rods). The rods are only so long and the top transmission will always move weather the top is hooked up or not. So no matter where you stop the clam-shell opening you'll need to raise or lower the top to get the rods installed. Once they're on just operate the switch and the whole convertible sequence will work.

If this sounds complicated, PM me with your phone number and I can talk you through it. :cheers:

Clamshell is down (otherwise the hurricane would've REALLY sucked), hence I can't see what's broken just yet. Like I was saying before, the clamshell was trying to close when things went pop, and once I removed the bag from underneath it and let go of it, the clamshell dropped right down into place.

What you've explained sounds do-able, but the only problem is that my switch does nothing right now. Pressing the button in either direction provides no movement or sound from the top, clamshell, or the motor, so this is why I'm trying to find out how I'm supposed to raise the clamshell with no power going to any of the moving parts of the top operation.

that sounds like a blown fuse, unless....

Um, you do have you hand brake on when trying to operate the top, right?

OD....you do have the convertible top locking handle unlocked right? Parking brake set? and whatever else you're suppose to do to drop the top? (I have a SmarTop and those aren't my requirements). If you still don't have any movement Mark T is right...no power.

I tell you what guys, I'm about 99.9% sure I did the usual when I pulled over and had the brake up and handle unlatched when I tried to move the top before and after removing my lunch bag from under the clamshell...but now you've got me doubting, lol. At the same time, I know that all activity stopped with the brake handle up because that's what happened when things went pop. I tried pressing the switch in either direction after the pop and nothing happened. I'm going to try tomorrow evening to work the top and see if the clamshell moves. The brake is already up so the latch is the only thing I'll have to do. Watch it make a liar out of me. :rolleyes:

If not, then could the fuse have blown just as ironic timing or as a result of the malfunction?

1. check to be sure your e-brake light on the dash comes on when you pull the brake up. if it doesn't, your ebrake microswitch could be bad.

2. if you can't get the clamshell to open:

a. remove your rollbar screens

b. looking at paul's 3rd picture above, use needlenose pliers to remove the clip holding the black bar to the clamshell hinge. do this on both sides. don't worry about damaging the clips; they're like nine cents.

c. push the black bars out of the hinges; you may hear a pop.

d. lift the clamshell by hand

e. remove the clips & put the back of the convertible top (at the window) upward into its service position; this will expose the motor hatch & the convertible top transmissions.

f. take a picture of the convertible top transmissions & post here.

I think the fuse would have tripped because of the load on the motor trying to close against a blockage.

Insite, I'll work on doing that this weekend.

In the meantime, I went out again tonight to see if the top would move. Sadly, it did not budge, and neither did the clamshell. When I hit the button, top unlatched, and e-brake up, I get a momentary noise like the mechanism is trying to operate, just a very abrupt "Tunk" but no movement. If I held down the button, every two seconds or so I'd get that 'tunk' again and again so long as I held the button down, but no movement.

:confused:

Just be carefull - if you keep depressing the button and the fuse does not blow, you may find that the motor can strip the gears in the transmission.
Big dollars.......

OD,

If you do have convertible top transmission problems, a forum member, Brinks, is selling all his top stuff at reasonable prices. Here's the link to the classified section with what he has;

http://986forum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=30105

and if that doesn't work out, i have a lot of that stuff lying around as well.

Thanks, guys. I appreciate the offers, and I really hope I won't have to take you up on them.

So I wonder if this is something any of you have experienced or heard of before? I've heard of people saying they get motor noise but no movement when hitting the button or nasty grinding noises when hitting the button, but I'm not getting any motor noise at all, just that very abrupt noise I described above (that was the best sound effect I could come up with on a sleep deprived brain), but no movement from the top or clamshell. The windows roll down after a few seconds of the button press as they normally do when the top is in motion, so it seems like everything else is working right.

I'm going to try to get that clamshell open tonight so I can finally get a look inside the car. They'll have to be camera phone pics, as my digi cam's battery's aren't charged, but so far my camera phone pictures have shown up well on the forum.

Overdrive, whas'up, or maybe down?
Did you figure this out yet?

Sorry I left this thread kind of abandoned, been super busy lately and haven't had time to troubleshoot.

A funny thing that happened a few days ago, Tuesday night I believe. I noticed I had one fewer light yelling at me on the dash, and it was the top warning light. I thought maybe the bulb had burned out more than the car fixing itself (fat chance of that). So to check I tried pulling my door handle on the passenger side to see if the window would do its drop for the seal, which it still did not. So, brake up, pulled the top release, windows dropped, pushed the top cycle button. Got lights dimming in the car for an instant, so power was getting drawn by the button press, but no sort of motor noise or movement of any parts. I did check the fuse, which is completely fine. Of course as soon as I unlatched the top the light came back and has stayed on, so I at least know the bulb hasn't burned out, but I did find it strange that the light turned itself off between my last drive, almost a few weeks ago, and that point earlier this week.

I have to ask again, what way, if any, is ther for me to manually raise the clamshell? I really want to get under there and look around.

As for the window, I dunno if it has to do with the car thinking the top is out of position (it is completely closed and locked, no leaking), or if the regulator decided to go at the same time as this issue. My window still works normally as far as moving up, down, and auto down, though it seems to slow a little as it reaches the top when it didn't noticeably do that before. It will not lower like it is supposed to for the seal when either door handle is pulled. I can feel the glass move a fraction of a fraction of an inch when I pull the door handles, but it will not lower at all on its own. I have to drop the window with the switch or the key trick in order to have it not rub the seal upon opening and closing. Driver's side window is without issues.

If, as you say, you can feel the glass move slightly, but not enough to clear the top frame, your window regulator is the culprit. The cable is either stretched or frayed, or one of the plastic bits through which it is routed has broken off (thereby allowing some slack). If the cable has stretched or there is some slack, the normal window drop will not occur because its motion will be "wasted" taking up the slack.

As to getting access to the convertible top's "works", here is a procedure:

First, unlatch the latch of the convertible top at the top center of the windshield frame.

To get the top to open manually, you must disconnect the white (or red if yours are original and have never been replaced) plastic cups at the base of the B-Pillar and the black hydraulic pushrods where they connect to the V-levers.

Disconnecting the white plastic cups will allow you to operate the convertible top manually.

Disconnecting the black hydraulic pushrods will allow you to operate the clamshell manually.

To have a better chance to see the parts that must be disconnected, you will have to pull aside the (vinyl) rain curtain which is all the way at the back of the convertible top well, below the rear of the frame. That curtain is loosely held in place by yet another cable that is located at the rearmost corners of the (carpet-covered) engine compartment lid (on the car body, not on the lid). That cable is held on to a small metal ball and you must pry it apart from that metal ball.

That particular connection is easy to separate, unlike the black hydraulic pushrod.

Once you have the curtain's cable separated, you may also have to remove the black plastic cosmetic covers that are simply clipped onto the arms that support the clamshell.

To access the white plastic cups, sit sideways in the driver's seat with the door open and your feet on the ground. Look down from above the side of the car (just behind where the rear quarter panel meets the rear of the door if the door were closed) and you should be able to see the white (or red) plastic cup. Pry that cup off by levering it outboard. You will nee a fat screwdriver or pry bar.

Then you will have to reach between the roll bar hoops, or possibly reach through them, to get at the connection of the hydraulic push rod to the V-lever. That connection is a real bear, so you will have to apply a great deal of pressure to separate it. Be careful not to hurt yourself there, but you just have to get the connection apart, again with the red plastic capped tool in the tool kit, a fat screwdriver or, preferably an angled screwdriver-type pry bar. I have also had success using a non-automotive tool called a cat's claw, which is usually used to pull nails.

If you absolutely cannot get the push rod disconnected from its steel ball, you can try reaching further back to locate the other end of the push rod. At that connection, the push rod has a small rod which runs perpendicular to the push rod and goes through the clamshell support arm, where is is fastened by means of a clip. If you can reach through there and press off the clip, you can pull the push rod away from the support arm. If you do that on both sides, you can pull the clamshell up manually and have access to "the works".

Once you have the various parts disconnected, DO NOT press the dashboard switch without CAREFULLY marking (and photographing) the position of the V-levers relative to the sides of the body that they are mounted on. Otherwise, it will be much more difficult to re-sychronize the V-levers.

Also, be very careful if you decide to operate your top because the push rod arms that are normally connected to the steel balls at the base of the B-pillars will be dangling from the V-levers. When they are dangling and you move the convertible top V-levers, those push rod arms can dig into the foam liner and tear it, which will cause leaks into the cabin later on. Those push rod arms can also dig in and prevent the V-levers from turning.

Regards, Maurice.

Wow, thanks for the write-up Maurice. I'll probably have to read through that a few times just to make sure I've got it all, but hopefully that will work. So am I working all from inside the car to get things disconnected and accessible? So I'll have to pull out the leather storage compartment to do so, right? I don't believe I saw that explicity mentioned, so I wanted to make sure.

As for the window, it sounds like what you're saying makes sense. I can definitely hear the window regulator trying to do what it's supposed to do, but the motion simply isn't there. Funny that the less frequently used door seems to be the one with the stretched connection. Is this something that would require replacement or can I trim off this slack in some way and reconnect it?

You are working from inside the car, reaching through or around the roll bar hoops. If you have a leather storage compartment, removing it will give you better access.

The window regulator fix is by replacement. There is one guy on this forum who figured out a way to install a bicycle brake cable adjuster in line with the window regulator cable and that apparently worked. I could not find the post, but he posted it about 1 1/2 years ago, IIRC. He posted a photo of his fix also, and it looked like the only way to rescue a stretched cable. If your cable is frayed, that would not work. You will have to remove the door panel to verify the condition of the cable.

Regards, Maurice.

Pop Pop
 

I recently had to do a slight overhaul on my top as well. I would be happy to help you if you wanna email me direct. My email is jporter1966@gmail.com.

I had an idiot light on on the dash and no movement whatsoever.. just a clicking. I have always been fairly mechanical and was able to determine what I needed and ordered parts and fixed my top. I can tell you that I was misinformed by a guy at Pelican parts and ended up ordering more than I needed. A $642 mistake.

I am certainly happy to help if I can.

jporter1966

Thanks, jporter1966! I'll be in touch.