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I bought my 2001 S with 60k miles a year ago from a dealer. Prior to purchasing I too asked them about the IMS bearing. They commented that the engine was bulletproof. That is pretty much what I expected given they wanted to sell me a car.
This fall I noticed some oil seepage where the engine and transmission mate. I took it to a local Indi shop and had them quote a clutch kit, RMS, and LNE IMS bearing replacement. The total quote was around $2,600.00. They found that the flywheel was shot, add another $575.00. When they pulled the bearing (double row bearing) and removed the grease seal for me, the cage was intact, grease gone, ball bearings "looked OK". The tech said there was some play in the bearing, he also noted traces of metal behind the bearing cover. The car drives great with the new clutch and the cold start engine rattle is gone. Because of the research I did before I bought the car, largely on this sight, I anticipated having to do the clutch, RMS, and possibly flywheel. I absolutely planned on replacing the IMS bearing while having the rest done. Yes it was a lot of money, but I look at as normal maintenance cost and money I won't have to spend again anytime soon. I am glad I did it. I love my 986! |
My RMS threw-up so I opted to have both RMS and LNE IMS replaced, $1,500 total and that included the oil change. Might want to get another estimate if your quoted 3K.
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I used to deal in used P-cars exclusively. It has been a few years since then but I can tell you that the local P dealer told me (in confidence) that they did an engine or two PER WEEK! Now that was a big dealer in SOCAL and that included both 911 and 986.
I can't say this as a FACT, but I can tell you that this. I walked around the service shop several times a week and there was always a car or three with the engine/trans dropped out of it. For what it is worth. |
Yesterday I talked to my INDY in his private office. He as been building,racing repairing , instructing for Porsche Club of America for 35 + years. He told me his business has been servicing many "Boxters" for years and has NEVER experienced an IMS failure. He told me that every engine made has "a little trouble engineered into them" meaning,Chevy,Ford,Audi, etc. And this did not mean that I would not be the 1st to have a problem. As for "cold start rattle" ? He told me that it's a Porsche and to be concerned with only the "strange rattle" that you may hear ! Then attack it ASAP. We also discussed the "World wide marketing" of Boxter after market parts, big bucks !!! I change my oil and love my first Porsche !!!. Hope you all feel the same. PS, IMS I love you too !!! Hope you love me !!! How bout it Danger? Tell us about your IMS. And what you did to 99, have not heard from him ?
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Thanks Danger ! AND what has happened to John99 ? Have not heard from him since you two took off to that "after party" last Sat night ? Hope his IMS is "OK" and he is not parting it out !!!
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Then there is the experience of my neighbor and good friend who bought a new Box in 2004. 7500 miles on the clock, sitting at a red light.
Bang. IMS, engine gone. The same local dealer that I spoke of above had a new engine in the car in 7 days. His comment was "the region has a ton of these in stock!" I wonder why? |
Rich , I wonder also, but it's not like I am stuck on the moon with an IMS failure and can"t get home. AAA tow truck ! (keep your membership ! ) "Major Tom" (He's Danger's cousin)
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Well with all this fear mongering I guess I don't want to feel left out. Misery loves company. Thinking of installing the guardian. During the last and the very first oil that "I" did i filtered the entire 8 qt of oil thru a fine filter - didn't have the magnetic plug. I found some very fine metal particles. could hardly see them but when touching the, you could feel them. I would guess about 20-30 of them at the most. Looked nothing like the oicture on the LN website. Ran the camchaft deviation on Durametric and it is steady and not wavering. Not at 0 but remember around -3 or -4 something for 1 and 2.
My questions to you wise men are is the above any indication of impending doomsday (or kaboom day) or an indication of all is well now but keep monitoring. Other question is with the Ims guardian installed, is the Ims bearing the only part that will throw out bits and pieces of metal? Would anything else possibly cause metal pieces to float around and trigger an alert? |
No fear. No mongering. I, for one, always like a service contract on any used vehicle I have. If you keep your cars in stock, mint condition (and little things cost 600-1,000 to repair) it's worth it. There's a higher probability that the mechanisms in your windows and top will go out than any IMS. My warranty covers all of them.
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I've got 67k miles on my 01. Only change the oil at 12-15k mile intervals or every 2 yrs. The car's engine hasn't failed me yet, but if it does, that's ok. I'll sell it as a roller cause it's so old already. I'm not gonna fix what ain't broke. YMMV.
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Johnny Danger , Where are you on this ??? Max
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It's just like playing baccarat. In the end, it's either you or the bearing who wins .
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I'm not worried about the IMS (I'll say up front), but after looking into ALL the potential issues with any car as it ages, I decided to call DenverSteve's agent and picked up an extended service warranty. Easy, quick, great coverage, cheaper than 2-3 repairs that many of these could need (top mechanism, window regulators, dripping rear main seal, bearings of course, and all the other non "wear and tear" items). A simple IMS retrofit would cost about the same as this entire policy did, and this covers that and so much more.
The price (for me) is great for peace-of-mind so I (like Tim Tebow ;)) pulled the trigger. I mentioned Steve Crain's name and he extended the holiday discount, but he wasn't sure how long he could do this. Now, let the revving begin.... or continue. :) |
Intriguing. I started looking at older Boxsters and found one that I thought was worth taking to a mechanic for an inspection. I looked up the local Porsche mechanic and stopped by one afternoon to arrange the inspection.
The gentleman who owned the shop was shall we say a grizzled veteran of repairing Porsches. When I asked if it was possible to make an appointment to inspect a Boxster he flat refused to do it. He said, "I'll save you the money, don't buy a used Boxster. Their engines are crap. Look out there, I'm fixing two of them now with engines that are bad. The white one is the second time I've replaced the engine. Do you have that kind of money to lose? If you want to buy a Porsche get a 911 with an air cooled engine, those are worth fixing up. That or get a new one with a warranty." Needless to say I was shocked, I appreciated his candor but what a major buzz kill. I even tried a second time during our conversation to get him to look at the car and he flat out refused. After reading all the point / counterpoints here I think I have an idea of what he's up against as a used Porsche mechanic. Truly one of the strangest experiences I've had at a mechanic and I've had several over the years. My plan now is to wait for the new Boxster to come out this summer. |
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sounds like that mechanic just hates the water-pumpers, he probably would refuse to look at a 944/968/928 too
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My IMS' early warning are my eyes. I turn on the micro-eagle-vision ON when I change the oil at every 2,500km on my 97 with 115,000km on the clock (cheap job, and it can't hurt). A good inspection of the oil filter is required at that point and if any failure, it will first reveal plastics/rubber debris. At that stage (normally) the balls have started to change shape however they will start to disintegrate a "few thousand" km after the bearing plastic goes so there is plenty of time to catch it before it completely blows up.
That's what a 22+ experienced Porsche engineer (based in Leipzig) told me to do when I childishly visit the factory a few months ago while on business trip in Germany. He also added that if you use Porsche approved oils & viscosity and change at recommended intervals the chances that you have a failure is 0.01%. Sounded very simple to him If I understood... the IMS bearing failures are related to poor maintenance and careless owners. Sure many owners high-rev their porsche with cheap oil that has 5000k more (cokacola!) and then wonders.... why are my bearings failing %*&^^%$$ |
my car just got back from having the bearing replaced.
while i don't think it adds any value to the car, i see it as insurance against a larger failure. just like your real insurance, you pay and pay and pay and if you never have an at-fault accident or file a claim it seems like that money was just thrown away. but if you ever did... my old bearing came out perfect. it may have never failed. but if it ever did... |
While its certainly true every car has its weaknesses, most Porsche vehicles are coddled. Extra fluid changes, no rough weather. I have owned two Ford trucks. If we were in Vegas and the bet was Ford 150 against the newest Porsche for which one will crack 100K without fuss, I'm going with the truck.
On a side note, when you tell a Ford dealer that you are arranging finance for Monday and he tells you they have accepted the parameters of the deal. You typically don't get an email that afternoon telling you they have a pending deal with someone else. Buying a P car on the net is horrible, not only can they eff you with hidden damage, they treat you even worse. I've been pissed about it all night. I emailed the dealer and congratulated the sales rep. I hope that sale is as solid as you say because if he backs out I'm not buying it or anything else you have. It's beginning to look a lot like no more sports car at all. Porsche we pray there is no substitute because if someone comes up with one we will become a German Eastman Kodak. |
My last words, the problem with car sales is it is not a repeat business especially over the net. That gives the seller huge leverage. I sold to hospitals, if you screwed someone it could impact business for years sometimes decades, not so in car sales. Screw em, take their money and move is the battlefield. If I do buy one of these cars which feels wrong this morning it will be no more Mr. courtesy, they want my money they are going to Smith Barney earn it or they get none. These salesman, its really nice to be financially dehumanized by people who likely have half your net worth, I love the cars but the acquisition process is god awful.
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I've been lucky to have mainly good experiences with car dealers from Mazda, Honda, Chevy, and Fiat where I recently bought my used Boxster which I found on ebay. One must remember that the seller and product are two different issues. If I didn't like a dealer I walked and I suggest you do the same. No one enjoys dropping a large sum of money and receiving piss poor service in return. Good luck
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I had a deal, the sales rep should have given me an opportunity to match if he got a higher bid or asked for a grand yesterday; I would have gladly given it to him. That would have been the ethical approach. Now I'm just pissed off because this car was as if I ordered it myself in terms of how it was configured and it only had 2,200 on it.
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P.S. I experienced something VERY similar 5 years back on a 911 Cab, and I had money down. Luckily I got it back and yes I was furious but realized complaining was pointless. |
I hear ya coreseller, I'm off the podium. Ethics is the decision of individuals. There was a time when medical x-ray film was about 1,200 a case. It was easy to order as start up product and a few bad apples would over order and sell it back to the dealers. As you can imagine it ranged into the thousands in extra cash. Another manager was fired for outfitting his house with furniture by building it into getting the office done. So what did I expect? The same vanishing metrics of ethics you detailed. No matter what, I'm glad I was the guy who didn't steal film. I'm proud to have been the guy who washed his hands between every patient, used proper sterile techniques, protected the health of everyone like they were my own family. It's how I was raised. In my family whether you were scouping dog poo or selling used cars you did it with pride.
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This is bunk. How can this be so when my friend's new Box (back in 05) had 11K miles on it and failed sitting at a stop light.
Self serving cover up for a bad design. |
BTW- I used to sell Porsche's and consider myself quite ethical. I cannot speak for others.
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Bruce, I'm sure you did work with a conscience, I'm also sure you took it with you to the next career which is my point.
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NSX's came with automatics. I bet you could find an awesome late model one for half of what you're budgeting for the Boxster.
http://www.cars.com/go/search/detail.jsp?tracktype=usedcc&csDlId=&csDgId=&listin gId=82717801&listingRecNum=26&criteria=sf1Dir%3DDE SC%26mkId%3D20001%26stkTyp%3DU%26mdId%3D21685%26rd %3D100000%26crSrtFlds%3DstkTypId-feedSegId-mkId-mdId%26zc%3D98109%26rn%3D0%26PMmt%3D1-1-0%26stkTypId%3D28881%26sf2Dir%3DASC%26sf1Nm%3Dpric e%26sf2Nm%3Dmiles%26isDealerGrouping%3Dfalse%26rpp %3D50%26feedSegId%3D28705&aff=national&listType=1 |
They were pretty cool but without PDK I would not enjoy an automatic. I'm going to step back and see what else comes. My friend is in the industry, he told be about dealerrater.com. Apparently even the manufacturers look at those posts. Sure some may be an errant complaint. However, as my friend points out if you see a trend you can quickly know what to expect post sale. It's not perfect but it is free. Someone kicked the Roc NY dealer in the shin, i thought I recognized the post name as a member here.
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