Dead Boxster?
 

Yesterday while driving on the freeway my engine light started flashing. I was just a few miles away from the Porsche dealer at the time and was actually headed there for my 90K maintenance. About 30 seconds after the engine light started blinking the oil light started blinking. I quickly got off the freeway and as I did so the engine shut off. I didn't hear any strange noises from the engine and saw no oil leaking when I looked under the car.

I got a tow to the Porsche dealer and then caught a ride a to my office a few miles away. The Porsche service guy called later and said they didn't see anything wrong with the electronics so they suspect the motor was history. Since it is an old car and not worth a lot, the service guy asked if I wanted to pay them to go ahead and look further. Of course I said yes.

He called me back later to say the mechanic found metal pieces from the engine in the oil filter, which he said meant the engine was ruined. The options he gave were for me to tow it away or get a new engine for $19K. That seems like a bad investment since the car is a 2000.

So now what? I am thinking I should get it towed to an independent mechanic and have them actually get inside the engine and look around. Or is that just a waste of money? If nothing else, I'd like to satisfy my curiosity of wth happened. And if I do that, and assuming they also say that the engine is damaged beyond repair, should I consider a rebuilt engine or just forget about the car?

No right answer to be given , but the one that works for you. However for 19K you can find the same car with noticeably less mileage and less money. If money isn't the problem then I would look to one of Raby's upgraded engines so atleast you'll get a power boost and a engine that has had the trouble spots addresses somewhat and not just a Porsche rebuild with the exact same potential failure. Just some thoughts.

Good Luck
Todd.

Thanks for the feed back.

What I was hoping to get from this car was to be able to commute to work in it for about another year, 50mi per day, and then give it to my son when he turns 16 next summer. He'd get a cheap (hopefully) car that looks very nice. I'd get a new car then. So I am looking for the cheapest option to keep it running. I guess my cut off would be about $10K but half of that would be more palatable.

Todd, I feel your pain. I've been struggling with the same decision since my 01 blew in Oct.

The cheapest way out is a used motor, but if one goes that route the "while you're in there" costs can add up quickly. (AOS, clutch, flywheel, water pump, rollers, motor mount, RMS, Jakes IMS, coolant tank, hoses, etc can easily cost as much as the used motor).

Here's a quote I obtained for just the motor delivered to my shop.

There is a core charge on the engines so if you decide to go with an engine that is not your original, you will not be able to have your core charge refunded. Here are some prices to give you an idea:

2.7 motor $12,690 with a core charge of $3,333

3.2 motor $12,690 with a core charge of $2,620

3.4 motor $11,160 with a core charge of $6,765

3.6 motor with a power kit $15,415 with a core charge of $3,300

Shipping an engine would vary on some options but should be around the $250-$300 range.

Since we are a Porsche dealership, these are genuine factory Porsche parts.

I'm still trying to come to grips with this. So when there are metal bits of the engine showing up in the oil filter, is it a 100% (or 90% or whatever) certainty the engine is ruined beyond repair and will need to be replaced? I need to decide if I am going to get the car towed to an independent mechanic or a salvage yard.

From your posts so far, the engine is totaled. To make sure you could have a compression test done. I suspect you will have 0 in all cylinders.

These cars have value even with a blown motor, if you decide not to fix it, I suggest you put it on eBay or Craigslist.

Most likely, the problem is serious; the only way you are going to know for sure is to have someone that knows what they are doing pull the sump cover and take a look. You don't find metal in the oil filters of health motors.....

If the engine is toast, the last place I would go for another one is a dealer. You should be placing a call to Jake Raby; he has everything from warmed over stock engines to full tilt race motors, the later of which sell for about the same as an OEM rebuilt motor. He has a program to pull and replace the problem parts on used but serviceable engines, like the IMS (which is probably what took yours out) and offers some level of warranty as well.

They did say the motor would start but it was misfiring and they thought likely to seize up any second.

It's just hard for me to fathom that the engine can't be fixed for a few thousand dollars, but then my knowledge of car engines is minuscule.

Those are prices for rebuilt engines? Rebuilt with the extras you mention at the top?

if the motor could be rebuilt, the labor alone would be more than a few thousand.


The cheapest way......ebay has running motors for 3-5K. buy it, pull yours drop another in.

Then trade it in and be honest about the motor.

Caution thread jump...Paul given your standing can
 

I safely assume that your maintenance was flawless and the car provided absolutely no warning prior to failure?

Seems quite unsettling to have your car go boom to all us DIYer and non-wrenchers.

They are Porsche crate motors ready to lift into the car. They do not include at least the flywheel, clutch, and pressure plate or any of the cooling hoses.

No warning whatsoever, no metal or other debris in the oil, all chains intact, IMS intact. No compression in all cylinders.

It failed while trying to start it. Cranked over about 2 times, fired a plug or 2 then spun free, no noises.

This is the first engine failure I've had in a lifetime of enjoying numerous Porsches. I performed all maintenance better and sooner than Porsche recommends. Very unsettling.

Some day I'll have the time to tear the motor down and see what happened. My best guess is that either the sprocket on the IMS or crankshaft slipped on its shaft. I'm in the process of getting a used motor ready to install.

Though this one may not have been a true IMS Bearing failure, it does sound like a mode of failure that my IMS Guardian would have provided early detection of.

Jake,

Back when I was still flying, one of the alarm lights on a helicopter was "chip detector" and when it lit, it meant there were metal chips in the main rotor gear box.

Perhaps something like this for the main oil sump would be a good addition to your product line?

Jake...Gardian available when?
 

Patents take a long time (>1 year in my experience)

Being a pilot as well, I've often wondered why no one has thought to bring this over to the automotive world (oddly enough, for those who don't know, typically aviation technology is FAR behind automotive). Most all turboprop engines have chip detectors (at least all the Pratts do, never flown a Garrett), and if you ever see that light pop on in flight you better be feathering and shutting down that engine.

In any piston engine, obviously there shouldn't be metal in the oil, but, if anything starts to fail and makes metal, a chip light could potentially offer the same advanced warning that it does in a turboprop.

One of the reputable shops here in Houston says they can install a rebuilt engine, with upgrades like the improved IMS (assumed that's Jake's) and other things to make the engine more dependable than a new one, for about $14K.

I'm leaning towards that route as I really don't want a car note that would come with a $35K-$45K certified pre-owned. I really don't want to do the "sensible" thing and get new or near new regular car either.

Am I nuts?

If they give you a couple of years of warranty, probably not nuts.

How's your roof, tires, struts, rotors, track arms, window regulators, etc. doing?

Your existing car will probably go for $3000 to $5000 with a dead motor, add that to the $14,000 that will probably become higher once they start and see what you can buy for $17,000 to $19,000 would be my suggestion.

If I were in your position, I would either sell the car as a roller and go buy something else, or if you are set on putting a new motor into the car, go with a 996 based motor and enjoy the added performance. If you go the latter route, while everything is out, I'd freshen the gearbox and install an LSD.

For reference, the IMS assemblies are made by LN Engineering, and if you do go with a used motor, I would absolutely toss a new IMS bearing in the thing.

It comes with a 12K warranty. Not much but that's a year of being covered and at that point I will turn it over to my son who won't be driving many miles.

The top is in good shape and so is the hard top. I just put on new front tires and the back ones are ok. Windows seem good. Brakes ok, prob will get those done within the next 10K miles. Needs a new windshield and a few minor things on the interior.

For $20K I could get another Boxster that would probably be in better shape than the one I have. But, I am thinking the engine would be a much bigger gamble than a rebuilt one with the IMS upgrade and a couple other upgrades. Am I wrong there? I'll get the specifics of all the upgrades and post them here.

The other thing is I can come up with $14K or a little more but probably not $20K and certainly not the $30K+ to get a certified preowned. I hate the idea of two car payments and the wife's car still has $25K to go to be paid off.

The car is an automatic and from what I have heard they are less problematic than manual. I have no idea what an LSD is. If I went with the bigger engine wouldn't the exhaust need to be reconfigured as well? I'm really not that concerned about performance just dependability.

not to point out the obvious, but you if put 14K into this car, it will not be worth 14k more.
You will never get the return on the investment.

Also, the motor will last for a number of years more, however as you may already know, the motor blowing is not the only expense you will have, you will dump more money into this black hole.

The car as it sits is worth 5K, running blue book trade in value is 13k.

drop a used 4k motor in it and trade it in on the way home from the mechanic. Use the 10 that you saved for a down payment.

Simple question... would you buy a 2000 Boxster with a rebuilt motor for 14K$, because that is what you are talking about.
dont be crazy

I'm not wanting an investment, I want to drive it. Buying a 2000 with a rebuilt engine for $14k seems like a good deal to me since what I seem to be reading here and elsewhere is that a rebuilt engine is fairly reliable. Or is that a bad assumption? Could I get 30k to 45K miles out of one? Again, I only plan to drive it a year and then give
it to my son to drive to school, which is about 2 miles away. I'll have the money by then to get a new one or at least close to new.

Am I being too optimistic on how much I can get from a rebuilt engine?

you are not understanding the point i am trying to make.

14K for a used boxster with a rebuilt motor is too much. nobody in their right mind is going to touch that car unless you get it done at a dealer with a certified motor (more than 14K), and even then, I would not touch it.

My guess, that with a new motor, it is worth about 11K trade in.
If you are willing to drop 14 into the car, then fix it cheap 4K, trade it in for 11, take the extra 10K you saved because you bought cheap, and put it for a down payment, And find your son a boxster for 21K. You could get a 2005, or something different.

Or take your 14 and buy another boxster and sell them both in a year for 20.

My point is that for the money you are putting in, You are about to spend more money to fix your car, than if you went out and just replaced it.

If their rebuilt motor is so good, why do they only stand behind it for a year?
A rebuilt motor is only as good as the warranty, because I dont think that you will be willing to spend another 14K in a year.

There is so many expensive things that can break on these cars, That I can not see why anyone would put 14-20K into a 12 year old car.

You are not thinking with your head, you are attached to the car.

So you will have a 12yo car that can not be resold for anything close to what you put into it, and then what will you do when the next big thing happens ( your tranny/shocks/ AC/ ......).

if you want reliable trade it in for a toyota.

It would be very difficult and time-consuming to try to sell a "roller" for $5K as some suggest, and I also think it is unrealistic to think you could buy AND install a used engine for $4K. Might take months to git 'r dun and all that time you would be looking at your inert metal sculpture and wondering if you made the right choice. Personally I have better things to do with my time than trying to coordinate all that. You've got the money for the rebuilt engine and that is a one-shot solution. The rebuilt engine with the LN Engineering IMS shaft sounds like a good choice to me, especially if you plan to keep the car for a couple of years. The longer you keep it, the less it costs you in the long run.

Johnsimion, you are hitting a lot of the points in my mind. I am probably going to end up renting a car for most of this transition time. I'm driving my daughter's vehicle for now but she will have school to go to in a couple weeks. So there's rental car expense to consider plus the hassle factor of trying to sell the dead one. On the other hand, the mechanic that will put in the used one said it will take 2-4 weeks to be done which I interpret as 4-6 weeks. Even if I didn't need the $ from selling the dead one to get the new one, it would likely take some weeks to find the new one.

The warranty on the rebuilt engine is 12K miles 1 year. The 1 year isn't relevant since the car will be driven about 15k miles in the year before I turn it over to my son.

Even if the choice was between buying another Boxster for $20K vs current Boxster + $14K, which choice would likely give me the most miles out of the car? I don't think about resale because either car will very likely be driven until it is dead. Maybe I am under estimating the quality of the Boxster I can get for $20K? I am thinking the engine in the $20K Boxster would be more likely to crater than the rebuilt engine for $14K.

This 2000 with a blown motor sold for $5300 with 12 bids. (space down to see car)


http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320707239416&viewitem= &sspagename=STRK%3AMEWAX%3AIT

This 2000S with a rebuilt engine and Jake's IMS has no bids at $16K. No offers either.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/BOXSTER-S-FRESH-0-MILE-REBUILT-ENGINE-MUST-SEE-/160604417691?pt=US_Cars_Trucks&hash=item2564c4ee9b

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+1

You could sell the roller for 5k. Hell I'd pay close to that for it tomorrow. Hardtop alone is worth 1K!

If you want to keep costs down buy a used motor from car-part.com or ebay for $3k add install costs ims/rms upgrades $2500. You'd be back on the road for under 6K

I would not hand this car down to a 16yr old if you are even considering costs. I'll assure you it'll be back in the shop within 4months of a 16yr boy behind the wheel

How about a used engine with a 1 yr warranty for $4K including shipping and then $2K for installation?

I was very close to buying a 2008 for $30K today at the dealer but they wouldn't give me anything at all for the dead one on a trade.

To replace a motor you will need at least (for an automatic):

Power steering fluid
Antifreeze
Oil and filter
Exhaust manifold gaskets
Exhaust manifold bolts
Exhaust pipe gaskets

Likely things you will get a call about:

AOS
Water pump
Serpentine belt
Rollers for above
Front engine mount
Coolant tank
5 hoses that attach to the motor
Spark plugs
Spark plug tube seals
RMS
CV joint boots

Another $1K? $2K?

If all you need is the first list, less than $400. If you elect to install all the items on the second list, around $2000.

I almost bought a 2011 987S but my famliy threatened to have me committed saying 4 Porsches are enough already.

Tell them you will stop when you have one for every day of the week.

For just little more I can get a 3.2 instead of the 2.7. Is that worth considering or would there be other costly changes needed to use the bigger engine?

What did you decide to do?