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986 Forum - The Community for Porsche Boxster & Cayman Owners (http://986forum.com/forums/index.php)
-   Boxster General Discussions (http://986forum.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=5)
-   -   IMS Upgrade - Should I have it done (http://986forum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26567)

jwade 10-20-2010 11:51 AM
Jake, I was on your site the other day and love the comment on your 4.0 race engine....

"For those with Deep Pockets and Big Balls!!!"

Laughed my ass off...but I bet that engine is a freaking screamer!

Jake Raby 10-20-2010 12:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jwade
Jake, I was on your site the other day and love the comment on your 4.0 race engine....

"For those with Deep Pockets and Big Balls!!!"

Laughed my ass off...but I bet that engine is a freaking screamer!
Yep... I say it like it is! Keeps the tirekickers away!

I designed the first of these 4 liter engines for my Wife's Land Speed 996... Her T shirt reads:
"If I had balls they'd be bigger than yours".. She currently holds four Land Speed Records :-)

dirkdiggler 10-20-2010 01:59 PM
I have a 1997 with 60k miles and just swapped my IMS bearing out for the $600 LN bearing.

I wish I hadn't even bothered replacing mine becasue my stock bearing was in "like Brand new condition".

At least I have piece of mind now but if I could go back in time, I certainly wouldnt have messed with mine.

blue2000s 10-20-2010 04:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dirkdiggler
I have a 1997 with 60k miles and just swapped my IMS bearing out for the $600 LN bearing.

I wish I hadn't even bothered replacing mine becasue my stock bearing was in "like Brand new condition".

At least I have piece of mind now but if I could go back in time, I certainly wouldnt have messed with mine.
I replaced the bearing on my 45k mile 2000S as well and the bearing looks great, but I'm still glad I did it.

Jake Raby 10-20-2010 04:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dirkdiggler
I have a 1997 with 60k miles and just swapped my IMS bearing out for the $600 LN bearing.

I wish I hadn't even bothered replacing mine becasue my stock bearing was in "like Brand new condition".

At least I have piece of mind now but if I could go back in time, I certainly wouldnt have messed with mine.
That bearing can go from perfect to failed in less than 1K miles.

Jim Miller 10-21-2010 05:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jake Raby
The choice is yours.. Is the thrill of owning the car worth the investment? Know that if you don't do the upgrade that a failure can occur and if it does happen the repair will cost more than the price of the car.

At least you know this now.. Many others don't find out until after the purchase is made or when a failure occurs. Two people I am working with now have experienced failures with cars they haven't even made the first payment on yet... Talking about being disgusted! The worst is the guy with the 996 that had it fail while being transported to him from the buyer.

With the proper necessary upgrades the cars are very good and reliable... Low mileage cars worry me because we see so many low mileage failures.. People think they can drive the car 2000 miles a year and never have to change the oil.. All that time the oil is saturating the outer IMS bearing seal.. It's not the mileage between oil services that matters most, it's the time the oil is in service.

Though you may be gun-shy it is better to be informed than being flanked by a full on failure out of the blue. People have called us in tears before, literally.
All this discussion is disturbing but good. I will be test driving this car Sunday to potentially buy knowing that I need to add $2000 to the price. I decided, if I experience some of the fun I had driving my old 911T I will probably go for it.

I sold my 911T because of the noise level in the cabin. I recorded 105 db at 70 mph. Hearing protection would be required where I work. Im hopping the boxster is significantly improved.

yelojkt 10-21-2010 06:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Miller
I sold my 911T because of the noise level in the cabin. I recorded 105 db at 70 mph. Hearing protection would be required where I work. Im hopping the boxster is significantly improved.
I find this very interesting. I wonder what the noise level is in yelojkt at 70. What made you decide to take a reading in your 911T?

eightsandaces 10-21-2010 06:46 AM
My brother had a 991 T, very nice car, the Boxster is far more gratifying in every way. AC? no contest, chassis? no contest, engine placement and weight distribution....same

Jim Miller 10-21-2010 06:50 AM
I work at a chemical company where we are constanly evaluating process noise and the need for hearing protection. Noise levels above 86 db long term can be damaging.

I took someone for a ride in my car and he commented on the high noise level, rained on my parade. I then took the comany noise metter and started testing and found it was quite high. It was close to 86 at idle. I was able to reduce the level by applying Dynamat material under the rear seat and engin wall, reduced the level to 96 from over 100. One major contributer was installation of stainless steal heat exchangers, should of replace with normal steal.

For a long time I wore foam ear plugs, but eventually got rid of the car primarily because of that. Loved that car, hoping the Boxster will give me similar enjoyment.

blue2000s 10-21-2010 07:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by eightsandaces
My brother had a 991 T, very nice car, the Boxster is far more gratifying in every way. AC? no contest, chassis? no contest, engine placement and weight distribution....same
Some would disagree that the Boxster is more gratifying. Even with all the on-paper advantages.

Jake Raby 10-21-2010 07:32 AM
Quote:
I sold my 911T because of the noise level in the cabin. I recorded 105 db at 70 mph. Hearing protection would be required where I work. Im hopping the boxster is significantly improved.
That is a Porsche...

Some of us still believe that Porsches don't have radiators, power brakes, heated seats, or a heater or air conditioning system that functions worth a damn.

My daily driver is a 1976 Porsche 912E, it has no radiator, No IMS bearing, no A/C and no creature comforts at all.. It is raw Porsche.

All my modern Porsches are secondary vehicles and I'd rather drive the 912E over any of them, because I appreciate raw Porsche that much.. I accumulated 160K miles on that car in 8 years and never did anything to it, just replaced the alternator in that period of time.

When doing our develomental M96 work I drive the modern cars more than I want to.. They are great cars, but to me its just not the same and it never will be.

Like I said, knowing about these issues is imperative. Beter to be informed than ignorant.

eightsandaces 10-21-2010 10:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by blue2000s
Some would disagree that the Boxster is more gratifying. Even with all the on-paper advantages.

Some would sure, I like driving the 1971 Fiat too, not taking a thing away from the experience but I know I could hand a T driver his ass all day every day in my Boxster.

blue2000s 10-21-2010 10:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by eightsandaces
Some would sure, I like driving the 1971 Fiat too, not taking a thing away from the experience but I know I could hand a T driver his ass all day every day in my Boxster.
That's not covering the gratifying part, unless the gratification comes from handing "a T driver his ass all day every day". For me, it doesn't. If the Boxster was my only sports car, I probably would have sold it a while ago.

My message to the original poster is to drive the Boxster, and drive some older 911s, especially the 3.0 and 3.2 cars and decide what you enjoy driving more.

Jim Miller 10-23-2010 06:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jake Raby
Sounds like a classisc victim... Low mileage, clean, probably hasn't been driven enough to see short interval oil services, etc, etc.

Read this and the links that you'll find inside the article
http://www.flat6innovations.com/services/intermediate-shaft-retrofit

If you have the opportunity to ask the question that you have posted here, then yes you should have the IMS bearing retrofitted.

Thus far this week we have saved one engine from IMS bearing failure (just today) and have had 3 IMS failure calls come in from various parts of the country. One of those that failed did so at 27K miles.

Low mileage, clean cars that haven't been serviced frequently enough and haven't been driven hard enough are what we see fail most.. The other day someone asked me how he should drive his car to help avoid a failure... My answer??? "You can't drive it hard enough".


I understand the need for oil changes and driving in the proper RPM range but I don't see the benefit of driving the car hard. Seems like the driving hard will diminish life.

Jake Raby 10-23-2010 07:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Miller
I understand the need for oil changes and driving in the proper RPM range but I don't see the benefit of driving the car hard. Seems like the driving hard will diminish life.
Thats what conventional wisdom would lead one to believe.. BUT we never see failures from engines being driven hard.. Maybe one call per year.

Very seldom do IMS bearing failures occur in race engines.. I tore apart one that had 50K track miles on it and the IMS bearing looked fine and it was even a single row.

Jim Miller 10-24-2010 05:24 PM
Well I bought it, 32K miles 1999 and its home and in my garage. Now I need to make the big decision of getting the IMS bearing replaced. I'm leaning toward it for piece of mind if anything. Thanks to all for the discussion.

Jake Raby 10-24-2010 06:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Miller
Well I bought it, 32K miles 1999 and its home and in my garage. Now I need to make the big decision of getting the IMS bearing replaced. I'm leaning toward it for piece of mind if anything. Thanks to all for the discussion.
Glad to hear that you purchased it. If you'd like to chat via telephone I'd be happy to.
I can also get you in touch with some people who have had failures and others who had the bearing proactively replaced.

yelojkt 10-25-2010 05:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Miller
Well I bought it, 32K miles 1999 and its home and in my garage. Now I need to make the big decision of getting the IMS bearing replaced. I'm leaning toward it for piece of mind if anything. Thanks to all for the discussion.
Congratulations! Please let us know how you like the little bugger after a couple weeks. And some pics would not hurt either. Happy motoring.

JoeFromPA 10-25-2010 09:57 AM
Congrats!

My '99 boxster has 58.5k miles on it now (56k when I got it) and was owned by my father for 7 years. It wasn't driven alot the past 4 years or so, but always had annual oil changes and I know the service history.

I've decided not to get mine replaced unless I decide to do it along with a clutch job, notice a bad bearing noise from the engine that appears it could be the IMS, or notice bits of plastic in my oil. That's my own personal choice - each person needs to make their own.

The car is worth ~$11-12k (mine that is). If the engine goes, it's worth roughly $4-6k in parts or selling with a blown engine. I decided I wasn't willing to invest for the retrofit upfront, and instead will warm it up properly and drive the piss out of it frequently.

Jim Miller 10-25-2010 01:14 PM
Thanks, I have some of that excitement of when I first bought my 71 911T. This car actually has creacher comforts (AC, ventilation). Love the sound, you can hear a little of the 911T in it.

Question about oil, I plan to do an oil change right off. How do you check for plastic or metal filings? Screen the oil use a magnet?


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