IMS Install Issues?
 

Got the LN bearing and clip thing installed into the car tonight but cant figure out how to finish.


I cant seem to get the final part on becasue the entire assembly where the bearing is installed has shifted upwards a little. Tried to tug it down a little but No luck with that. How can I get this thing lined up straight again?


I did also remove both cam chain tensioners also.......which apparently I was not suppose too do.........dammit!

Well one article said to remove tensioners completely and the other article I read said to only back them out half-way or so......... I chose to remove them



I thought both cam tensioners where the exact same but after looking closer at them they are different. Anyone know which one goes on which side of the motor? I mixed them up and dont know which goes where now? One does have a slightly larger end on it.


What do I do now??

Pic attached

I guess the pic didnt attach

Pretty much the tube that the bearing sits in shifted upwards and I need it to be centered in-order to get the final piece(cap thing) on

I think I would call Charles at LN immediately...I believe I've read in the past you've likely jumped timing and now have a real project at hand.

God I hope not??

don't stress; you'll get it sorted. what year is your car? i'll assume it's an early one.

first, there are actually three tensioners. there's one on each head and one on the block. find the third one and remove it.

it sounds like your IMS is just caught on the block a bit. try tapping the flange gently with a plastic hammer & see if it pops into place.

the tensioners ARE different. look at the top of each one. each has a hole in the center. one has no rings around the hole, another has one ring around the hole, and the last has two rings around the hole.

no rings: bank 4-6
one ring: engine block
two rings: bank 1-3

get back to us w/ the year & we'll go from there on engine timing.

okay, i just saw in another thread that you have a '97.

now we need to check the timing. set your engine to TDC. on each head, there should be one side w/ two green plugs and another side w/ one green plug on the camshaft ends.

on the sides w/ two plugs, pull the lower plug out (exhaust cam). the notches in the ends of the cams should be perfectly vertical. if they're off significantly, you'll need to re-time.

i plan on posting that procedure later today w/ photos.

thanks Insite

if you look at figure 97 in the link, it shows the thing off-centered also in the DIY. with it off-centered I just cant imagine how to get the cap on.

http://www.pelicanparts.com/techart...aft_Bearing.htm


So I should remove all 3 cam tensioners on a 1997 boxster? the DIY articles only mention removing 2?

that link isn't working for me. go ahead & remove the 3rd tensioner. it won't hurt, & may give you some wiggle room.

Sounds like you didn't have the engine locked at TDC #1 cylinder... if you did not the cam timing MUST be re-set because it has been compromised. This is the first procedure that must be done, but no one seems to listen to that.

Its not as simple as putting the engine back at TDC, locking it and going back together with it.

If the IMS tube shifts, there is a reason, some camshaft is "on lobe" and is exerting force on the IMS tube, EVEN WITH THE TENSIONERS REMOVED!

Tensioners are marked per position with rings that match the casting rings that are embossed on the heads.

This procedure must be carried out explicitly with great attention to detail, you can't just pull things apart and expect the process to go smoothly on reassembly.

were is the third located exactly? I removed the 2 off the heads but didnt recall seeing a third one to be honest.

I did have the motor set at top dead center.

did you lock to TDC prior to beginning?


i found the pic. if yours looks like that, you're probably in good shape. i'd put the flange on & hand thread the nut into place. start the 3 flange bolts & they should center the IMS

yes I had it set at TDC prior to starting this procedure.

I didnt have the cam locking tools though.

Pic attached of my issue

as you can see it is not centered which doesnt allow me to install the cap thing.

is the Flange the part that I keep referring to as the cap? Im not sure I can start threading the 3 bolts if its off-centered?


and where is the third tensioner located?


The crappy thing about all this is that the bearing I pulled out of the car was mint and dont think I even needed to install this new IMS .......... oh well

if you're looking at the IMS, the 3rd tensioner will be located by the oil pan, pointing to the left side of the car. it's on the crankcase rather than the heads.

when you set TDC, did you lock the motor? i know you said you don't have the cam locking tools, but did you lock the crank?

I did not lock the motor, just set it at TDC.


While Looking at the IMS:

I removed a tentioner that was directly to the left of the IMS pointing directly out the left side of the motor.

I also removed the tensioner on the right of the motor that points straight downward towards the ground.

Im just wondering if I didnt even remove the correct 2 I was suppose to at this point?


This is a huge stressful nightmare! uggghhhh

you missed the one on the other head; it points upward.

looking at your picture, i wouldn't even bother pulling the other tensioner. i think your flange will install just fine as-is.

oh, and check to see if you're still at TDC. if you are, slide a bolt through the OT hole on the front pulle to lock it. if you're not, do NOT turn the front pulley until you have the flange in & the tensioners reinstalled.

BTW, where are you located?

I just dont understand how it will install if it isnt centered though and doesnt have any play allowing it to move back too center while installing.

I can get the flange around the shaft in the middle of the bearing but it will not slide in like it should becasue the flange hits the motor becasue everything isnt centered properly.

So.....removing the last tentioner will not allow any play so I can center this thing?

hmm. you can try the last tensioner. it's at the other side of the motor & would have less of an effect, but it may be worth a try. see if you can lock the crank first.

if the lip of the IMS flange isn't making it past the case fairly easily, don't forces it....

The IMS is being lifted because the engine has a camshaft "on lobe" producing load on the IMS tube. This is not a tensioner issue. If the crank is not locked at TDC the entire job is compromised from the beginning.

I offer consulting when these issues occur, it is not cheap but I can help.

Great.

My mechanic said he put the motor at top dead center so I can only assume it is.


What can i expect going forward now?

well, you can expect this to take a little longer.......

go ahead & pull the firewall cover behind the seats in the car. this will give you a view of your front pulley & we can guage where the motor is currently positioned.

Kevin aka insite

Thank you for the diagrams

I got the tensioners figured out now based on the rings they have....thank you!

When I install the tensioner for banks 4-6 into the left-side of the engine ...... the IMS moves slightly from side too side ......... but not downward unfortunately.

Keep in mind that I have NOT loosened the tensioner on the front of the motor located under the ac compression yet.

The motor is still at top dead center according to the pulley.


Do you think by removing the tensioner on the front of the motor it may move downward a little? ........or is that a long shot?

pics attached

before you do anything else, lock the motor. you do that by sticking an 8mm pin / bolt thorough the hole marked OT on the pulley.

which tensioner did you poke back in? the one that goes in sideways, or the one that goes straight up from the ground?

i put the one that goes sideways back in

I actually put them both back in for the time being becasue my buddy needed his rack to fix a customers car.............we have been working on this at night

Looking at the pic of your IMS bearing, it looks like the flange would slide in OK. Get it started, and then use the 3 bolts to pull it in. If there is resistance, do not proceed, but it looks like you'd be ok. Once the IMS flange is in, put the tensioners back in, and roll the engine over a turn or two and check your timing. If it's in time, consider yourself lucky, if it's not, you'll have to go through the timing procedure to re-time the engine.

The IMS is outa center pushed up and too the right............ it really doesnt have any play or wiggle too it (as far as I can tell) which would allow it to go back to center where it needs to be to get the flange on. With it being off-center I dont see how it is possible for the flange to slid on ........ everything has pretty tight tolerances and it seems the only way the flange will actually go on is if the IMS is dead nuts centered.....which mine is not.

Im thinking about maybe rotating the camshaft pully a little to the right or left and see if the IMS will straiten itself out............. or is this a very bad Idea?

From what I have read, it doesn't seem like removing the third tensioner located under the ac compression will have any effect on what my problem is ............ or am I wrong??

Thank you very much for all the help thus far guys!!! i appreciate it!

VERY bad idea. If you attempt to rotate the engine with the tensioners out, you are almost guaranteed to have a chain skip a tooth and jump timing.

If you locked the engine at TDC and removed the tensioners (you only need to remove the tensioners for Bank 1-3 and the IMS drive chain, not the Bank 4-6 tensioner (the one under the A/C compressor), I still can't see how you got the thing off center in the first place.

I suppose it MIGHT gain you just a little bit of movement potential to remove the 4-6 tensioner, but you shouldn't need to do this.

Thanks for all the help guys

i did end up getting the flange in after removing the tensioner on the front of the motor.

Anyone have a link as to show me how to check the timing on the motor just to make sure I didnt jump a tooth?

I did remove the green seal things on the front of the motor and the rear but not sure what the timing marks are exactly?

here's my cam timing thread:

http://986forum.com/forums/showthread.php?p=227748#post227748

Thanks for the nice write-up Kenvin ......... this should be the standard for DIY threads!


I do have one more question regarding the intake cam notch location.

1.) My pulley is set to top dead center
2.) my exhaust cam notches for bank 1 are lined up parallel to the seam between the head & the valve cover

My question:

My intake cam notch(one next to air oil separator thing) is pointed too the right but its not perfectly horizontal like to ones in the pics you provided. Mine is sorta at a angle pointed upwards a little. Pic attached of how mine is situated with all other things lined up. Red arrow shows the angle.

Is this normal??

totally normal; you're fine. the one in my pic is actually pointing up a bit, too. the angle makes it look perfectly horizontal.

Kevin

Mine is definitely positioned a little higher than yours is in the picture......... does it matter just as long as it is pointed in that general direction.


I also put the put back in and siliconed the green cap before I checked on the timing of the other banks

the motor does turn over by turning the pulley and does not bind or get stuck on anything.

I think I should be ok.

if the timing is off on the 4-6 banks will my motor blow up if I start it?

you're in good shape. FYI, the green caps are supposed to go in dry.

the timing has to be off a LOT to generate interference between the pistons & valves. the concern here is really drivability; if you're off a few degrees, the car will just run crappy.