Question for my Boxster S/ Porsche friends!
 

So-

I just got a great raise today! Hard work always pays off!!! My current Porsche Boxster S is completed, except for the routine maintenence it will need. I love that car and hope to keep it for along time....but I've got the bug....

Can anyone tell me a good place to find, research and or purchase classic 911's? I'm interested in a 1969, 1973 RS Replica, or a 1988. This will be my weekend driver...

Thanks in advance~

Kyle

I've been a 911 owner for over twenty five years, having owned quite a variety of 911 variants. The cars you've selected each are unique and have ups and downs depending upon your intended use and your budget.

The 1969 will have the smallest engine, need the most work and will cost the most to acquire a nice example. These cars are narrow body and a blast to drive; E's are expensive and an S will cost big dollars (997 territory)!

A 1973 RS Replica is a fun car and fairly easy to acquire. Most have 3.0 or 3.2 liter upgraded engines (as opposed to the potent 2.7), are lightweight and fun to drive/autocross or even track. These cars can be had for $25 to $30k and were commonly built from a "T" model. These tubs were not galvanized, so finding a clean one takes some knowledgeable looking.

'87 thru '89 Carrera is a 3.2 liter DME with the G50 tranny...the best of the '80's Carreras and a nice driver. These are fairly heavy cars and a bit more modern, but not much.

Don't count out the 964 models with the 3.6 liter...they are considerably more modern than the '80s Carreras and quite a good buy.

I recommend you spend some time on www.pelicanparts.com 911 forums, as there is a wealth of information on the site. As I said, really different cars; each with a different purpose.

BTW, I really enjoy my Boxster S and it will run circles around most, but the modern 911s (I'm a driving instructor for PCA and a couple other schools).

Good luck!

Example of what could be a fun car...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Porshe-1973-911-RS-Replica-3-2L-Engine-A-C-Pwr-Windows-/200492582266?cmd=ViewItem&pt=US_Cars_Trucks&hash=i tem2eae4a057a#ht_500wt_1182

WOW! Thank you for all of your input! I am having trouble deciding which model to get. I will also check into 964.

I love my S, it is a wonderful, fast, comfortable car. I am looking for this 2nd Pcar to be a bit more raw. Looking basically for a great motor and great handling, don't care much about fancy options but I do need some type of AC. Targa is the only thing I am 100% sure about at this time.

I dont really have time for track events, but am not against having a "track built" car.

Thanks again, and I will check out the pelican site!

Kyle

1973 emerald green is looking so good...

Here's my interpretation of an early 911. They are quite raw compared to a Boxster or later 911 variant...but that's the fun; under 2200 lbs versus 3000+.

Wow! That looks unbelievably similar to what I have in my head.....GREAT LOOKING CAR!!!

I need that!

Go for an 80's 911
 

I think you'll find the prices on late 60's and early 70's 911's out of sight. The early 911's have really been appreciating a lot over the last few years. That makes it a lot harder to find a good buy. Looking at these early cars you may want to consider a 912 - 4 cylinder instead of 6, but still fun. I don't believe that the ridiculous appreciation has caught up to the 912's yet. I've got a '72 914 that's very "raw" and great fun to drive, so that's something else to consider, just be smart as there are a lot of junker, rust bucket 914's out there.

If my heart was set on a 911 though I'd steer more towards the 1980's cars. They're relatively cheap now and are due to appreciate in the future. I know it's not an investment, but an 80's vintage 911 is probably going to represent the best "deal" for you.

Kirk

I've had a reasonable amount of seat time in a '77S Targa, an '82SC coupe, and an '87 Carrera Targa. They're all great cars. I'd say that the '77 and the '82 are very similar in the way they feel in suspension and steering. The SC has more power, but both are very fun to drive. By '87, they were getting a little heavier. The steering still has the kickback and feedback that the earlier cars do, but the chassis feels just a little less lively. Even though the engine is stronger, the SC felt faster. They all sound FANTASTIC!

There are concerns with the reliability of the 2.7L cars from the mid-70s from the magnesium cases and chain tensioners. The SC is supposed to be one of the most reliable cars Porsche has ever made and it's great fun to drive. If it were me, I'd pick something from '75 to '83 but look really hard at the SC from '78-'83. Porsche switched from chrome to black trim in the middle of the 1977 model year, in case you're looking for the older or more modern look.

You mention that you want a targa. They can be leaky, and expensive to restore so look out for a top that may not be in great shape, among all the other things to look for.

Gentlemen-

Thank you for your tips and input! I was able to check out a really decent condition 1969 912 that was going for 37.5$. It was an amazing car but a bit much in my book for the 102hp 4cyl!

I will look more carefully at the 78-83SC, as I think I could "back panel" the car into a near RS replica in emerald/viper green!

As far as targa goes thanks for the heads up!


Kyle

Go for a 964 and put Carrera Lightweights on them. Some dude on Rennlist posted a pic of on with that set up and man did it looks damn nice!

964 is a good looking car, but a bit too "new" for what I'm looking for!

Power steering ruins a 911.

How much harder is it to drive an older 911? Or is it a feel thing not much ease?

It's not hard steer an older 911 at all, but they're pretty light in front. The steering in the non-assisted cars is SOOO alive. You can fell exactly what the tires are doing. All the kickback and bouncing would be annoying in a Cadillac, but it's exactly what you want in a driver's car.

The assist, no matter how good, dulls the communication.

I have got to agree onthe steering feel. I currently have a 79 euro sc, 98 993, and 01 boxster s. The 79 has steering feel that is just awesome. Any other car I have driven now feels somewhat dull in the steering dept. I wish they offered these things without ps today. It's quite easy to turn once you are going over 1 mph. I have even parallel parked the sucker.

Get an SC if you want something raw. Only downside to an SC is the climate control is essentially worthless. Otherwise they are cheap, reliable, fun, and probably at the end of the depreciation scale.

Ridiculous if you ask me. This is what I'm talking about - the value of the older cars have been going up excessively over the last few years. I don't believe this has totally caught on yet to the 912's though, this car and some others being the exceptions. I think you can still maybe find a cheaper 912.... "maybe". One of the members of my local PCA is selling his 356 coupe for something like $68K! :p It's not worth $68K as a driver's car, it's clearly a collector's car. Maybe to get an early 911 that's not a collector's car you need a good barn find. A co-worker of mine picked up an early 70's 911 targa last year for $5K, but he's still working on it to get it running reliably! :rolleyes:

Kirk

Very interesting. How does the 993's steering compare? I assume it's heavier than the Boxster's - maybe a half way house in terms of weight and feel?

I must say, I do prefer driver's cars to have quite heavy control weighs with maximum feedback. Much as my Box is a lovely machine, the control weights are way too light and the steering is over rated in terms of feel. Yes, there's much mroe feel than a typical modern car, but the fact is that it's still pretty numb.

Also, when did power steering become standard? Did it come insome time on the SC? Are all Carrera 3.2s PS. And what about the Carrera 3.0?

Many thanks.

It was added in the 964. As with anything Porsche changes, the purists were unhappy. The 964 is heavier than previous models, especially the awd cars so they felt it was necessary.

Double galvanized bodies are a big thing to consider as well. If you want a car that's not going to have hidden (or maybe unhidden) problems, it's another reason to start in the mid 70s.

I am all for appreciating car values! (as long as I already have the car :D !!)

Like I said, the car was in "really decent" condition. I would put it at 80-85%, it had the engine rebuilt and brake system was redone, all original manuals, toolkit, had the begining of some small oxidation, I was NOT expecting to hear 37.5 come out of his mouth!

...I'll nose out a great deal...

Kyle

Good point here! Thanks!

The 993 and boxster s seem to have similar steering feel. The 993 might have a little more feedback. I am not sure when ps came standar but I remember driving my friends dads 86 cab carrera and it did not have ps.

Thumbs up on the galvanizing. My sc has limited specks of rust here in two spots and it has been fully stripped /repainted, and lives in CA garaged. I restored a 54 chevy truck when I was younger so I have a huge dislike of rust. Nasty stuff and nasty to deal with. You can fix anything it just costs $$$$.

Sounds to me like as a second car if you can easily afford to purchase a good SC in the 14-20 k range then you are likely to be able to afford the expensive curve balls that may come up.

Not mine,but...

http://washingtondc.craigslist.org/nva/cto/1835307554.html

That DC car looks pretty good. I wouldn't buy a cheap SC. Rather I would spend a bit more up front and get a good one possibly w rebuild etc. If you read the excllence magazine about a "cheap" SC you will know what I mean. These cars are bulletproof and reliable but like any Porsche way expensive to fix. I don't think they break nearly as much as the boxsters but cost a bit more when they do.

I think it has been said but pelican parts seems to have the largest amount of knowledge for these cars.

Good time to be looking!

Finding a vintage Porsche is a great adventure, enjoy. jmatta is probably our resident expert on the early 911s and I would trust his judgement. There are quite a few early variants in our club that I would consider owning... An original owner '66 comes to mind and some day I may just have to have it.

One thing you mentioned that stood out to me: "but I do need some type of AC". This may limit your choices somewhat. Reliable, cold A/C in a vintage Porsche usually means an expensive custom aftermarket system, a 964 or later, or rolling down the windows on a cool morning ;) We are very spoiled with an excellent climate control system in the Boxster but the original A/C in most early 911s is pretty worthless. Keep this tidbit in mind as you shop for your fun car.

Thanks! It has proven to be a fun journey, and I am only just getting started!

Yes, I said that because I've noticed alot of them have listed as "ac is disconnected, but have the compressor" or the like. I know it is not cold from shopping around, but I tend to sweat like a maniac and some type of ac is necessary! Other than that I don't need power windows or defrosters, etc....Just a pure driving experience.
My local Porsche shop has an AC upgrade system for early 911's.

Kyle

I feel you really need to set your goals on how you'll use the car, so you won't be unhappy with your purchase. The early cars are raw, a blast to drive, expensive and a/c means roll the windows down.

A few companies produce aftermarket a/c components for the SC and Carreras, but do not interpret this as "modern"; it will blow air, but it is hardly cool.

One of my favorite 911s to this day was a triple black 1983 911SC...too bad they didn't have digital cameras back then, I'd post a pic. You state that $37.5 may be on the heavy side? Get a good grip on your budget, include reserves to make the car correct, and we could help you further decide what car you should be looking for.

Thank you! I have sent you a pm. I'm wanting this car as an "investment piece" it will be driven on weekends, maybe a few long trips. A semi garage queen so to speak. I'd like to keep it in the 15-20k range including making it how I want it.

Kyle