Engine Failure Facebook Group
 

20% failure rate? Where did that number come from? Overzealous estimate? Internet sensationalism? Blind enthusiasm?

09,s and up are okay

it needs a far more confrontational title...

"THE ENGINE IN MY $70K PORSCHE BLEW UP!!"

"DANGER: PORSCHE ENGINES MAY EXPLODE!"

"MY DREAM PORSCHE SELF-DETONATED"

"FLAWED PORSCHE ENGINE DESIGN COST ME A FORTUNE!!"

"BROTHER CAN YOU SPARE A DIME? OR A NEW PORSCHE ENGINE?"

"MY HONDA NEVER BLEW UP LIKE MY DREAM PORSCHE DID!"

And don't forget it affects 911s too. It's not just Boxsters.

More internet trash...I'd like to see the statistics that back up the 20% failure rate.

I have been a PCA instructor for close to fifteen years, have driven more track events than I will ever remember and can recall only one IMS failure throughout that period (he was running Mobil 1 0W40 which was a major mistake for a track vehicle). One other gent in my region had his '99 fail due to D-chunk...non-IMS related.

This garbage does more harm than good to potential buyers and lessens the collective value of the model.

...and from someone with 1 post.

The best way to deal with this bull**************** is to ignore it.

Dooooooom!

Porsche has sold well over 200,000 Boxsters. I have yet to see 40,000 engine failure posts to support the supposed 20% failure rate. I might believe 2%

Well at least it's true they no longer have the IMS in the engines, whether the new design is bulletproof remains to be seen. My engine runs fantastic and it's the scary low mileage 2.5 or so they say...

Boxsters have no more engine problems than any other car on the market. I will give my 99' Nissan Altima a thumbs up. Just under 100,000 miles with no engine work. 3 batteries, 3 sets of brake pads and 3 sets of tires. Regular oil changes every 5K miles just might be the key. One thing that drove to the Altima was they used a timing chain that is bathed in oil. Not those crazy belts that break. :cheers:

no dude, it's Boooooooom!

I do not buy that at all. I don't believe the 20% failure rate, but I wouldn't be surprised at all at 2-5%. And by failure rate I don't mean $2k repair and you are out the door, we are talking $10k and up complete rebuilds/replacements. By any statistical measure 2-5% for complete failures is horrific compared to other top cars on the market.

Yes, I am one of the one that has experienced an IMS failure and am dealing with aftermath of that now on a 2004 car with 20k miles. However, Excellence Magazine has devoted 2 full articles (with a 3rd one due later this year) to the IMS issue and the lead guy dealing with the repairs/upgrades (Flat 6) is working on a 2 month to almost 1 year back-log depending on what is needed. Those facts alone tell me the issue is not insignificant.

I wonder if the 04 SE in particular, was a problem edition. I've seen at least 04 Special Edition Boxsters with IMS failures on various Pcar forums over the years. Was yours an SE?

Yes, mine is an SE, but based on what my research has turned up its not an SE problem, it's any M96 motor installed in the Boxster and Carrera models.

Yep, I realize it affects all M96 based engines. Just that I've seen a lot of 04 SEs pop up as being hit with it. Thought maybe a bad batch of bolts/bearings that production run.

This is my first Porsche so bear with me here, but until I was researching this car I had never even heard of an Intermediate Shaft before. I've never had a car or motorcycle with a boxer type engine before, so I assume it's something unique to that design.
From what I've learned on this forum, I was surprised to see the bearing that fails is such a small unit. What function does the IMS perform in the engine?

Dave S - There is a great article on the IMS, what it does, symptoms of failure and ramifications in the June 2010 edition of Excellence Magazine. It has diagrams and pictures. Subscribers got the edition earlier in the week, not sure when it will hit the news stands, but its worth picking up for that article alone.

I've never seen an intermediate shaft used on anything but a Porsche. Someone else will know, but I suspect it may be a remnant of the old VW boxer 4 that started it all.

It's a shaft that spins below the crankshaft and is driven off the crankshaft. It drives a few accessories, and through a set of chains, also drives the camshafts. On the water cooled engines, the intermediate shaft is driven off the crankshaft by a chain as well.

In the most recent engines, Porsche has eliminated the intermediate shaft and drives the camshafts from the crankshaft, as other OHC engines do.

The Group won't let me post to the Wall...
 

... where I wanted to post the following:

A few of comments:

• The failure rate on the M96 engines is nowhere near 20% as you state. Where are you getting your data from? Porsche has never given any numbers but by my estimate it may be around 2%.

• M96 engines can be rebuilt, just like any other internal combustion engine. Some failures may be catastrophic, but some are preventable by changing your engine oil on an accelerated basis and "reading" your filter.

• My recommendation for anyone having to replace their clutch is to also replace the Intermediate Shaft Bearing which is one of the components most prone top failure, especially in the '03 and '04 model years.

• A used Boxster is way less than $19,000. It's closer to $10K. A Boxster S $15,000. If you have to replace the engine, you can purchase a used one for about $3,000.

• Many Porsches live a long and healthy life. My '98, which I've had since new and is my daily driver, weekly autocrosser, and monthly track car just turned 195,000 miles.

It's not all gloom and doom.

Happy Boxstering,
Pedro

Ditto on the 98 running awesome, Uusimma Finland built units represent!

20% would indeed be a scandal.

But even 2% is truly outrageous given its competition.

Further, we wouldn't even be having this debate if Porsche simply released the data it has or at the very least gave a ball park figure of "to the present we've documented X number". But they haven't put that out which should make you wonder:
If you're sitting on data that would extinguish rampant internet rumors that tarnish your name why would you just continue to sit on said data? I'm guessing its pretty bad.

People have said that these rumors may potentially drive down the price a prospective buyer is willing to pay, but I put that squarely on the foot of Porsche's doorstep. Look at how much trying to bury poor execution or design is costing Toyota by simply failing to acknowledge it. It could well be that a microscopic number of Toyota's (given the millions of cars they produce) are affected by their reported problems but by simply failing to own up to the problem and level with the market, in a timely way, it is now costing them tens of billions. Stupid.
While Toytota's mistake is a safety issue, the mistake, in principle, was the same. Let the public find out about our mistakes on their own dime. Which means the people who are probably in less of a position to shell out such an expense, buyers of second hand cars vs. those with the means to take on new car depreciation, are going to bear the brunt of these repairs. That will certainly shrink the market of prospective buyers in this new economy where people are trimming back on indulgences and taking fewer risks.

Check Engine Light
 

Good day, I have a 2006 Boxster S and check engine light came on yesterday and it said visit workshop. Then later that day, the engine starting to almost stall in 1st and 2nd gear. Then this morning when I turned it on, a white smoke with very very bad smell came out of exhaust for about 5 min and the engine would stutter up and down. Called the dealer and they said have it towed in!

Pretty depressing so far as I have only had this for 2 months. It's certified pre-owned and I do have a couple years in waranty but hope this is nothing big?

Actually, I recently learned that the Ford 4.0 SOHC V-6 engine in a lot of Ford Trucks (Ranger Pickup, Explorer, F-150, etc) also has a sort of IMS that drives the camshafts, similar to the Porsche.

Those engines also seems to have fairly high rates of noise and failure.
At least they have noises first to let them know something bad is going on.

They don't actually have an IMS bearing, from the little bit that I've looked into it, however. The problems that they run into are related to the tensioner assemblies failing, causing the camshaft timing to go out of whack, and then pistons meet valves at high speeds, causing massive damage, and big engine replacement dollars spent.

Sometimes, the tensioner assemblies fail in such a way, that the parts punch a hole either into the engine block, or the valve cover assemblies, which then sends shrapnel down into the engine, taking out other important parts.

Not good, either way.

This engine family was originally a pushrod engine, that was modified to accept a cylinder head design that had overhead cams. The original camshaft location in the block was used to house the IMS that feeds the chains to the cams in the cylinder heads. Just an under engineering example.

BC.

That's a good point, OHV engines drive the pushrods through intermediate shafts (or more correctly, the cam). The unusual thing about the M96 is that the engine was designed as OHC from the beginning and Porsche still chose to use one.

nice. maybe i'll start taking bets to see which goes first - my ford or my porsche. :)

OK. I have an '01 Boxster with 34k original on it. I guess I am in the group that should worry based on year and such low mileage? Is there a mileage cutoff where say, after a certain ballpark miles the issues lessen? Most of these post suggest the IMS failures occur at fairly low miles

Dennis - I don't beleive anyone has been able to make a direct link between mileage and failure (except maybe Porsche and if they have they aren't sharing). PM me your email address and I will email you a copy of the June 2010 Excellence Magazine article that my help shed some light on some of your questions.

It's your AOS...Air Oil Separator :cheers:

Well and logically put. I'd probably be more animated if my car were a casualty though, $10k or more for a crate motor would sting a bit.

P.S. Pedro, whenever I see your avatar I think "Why is that guy shaving with a wrench?" :cheers:

or he,s rabid

Hi
 

Hi sir,
Can you also PM me a copy of the Excellence Magazine article , really like to read more about this .

thanks in advance

coreseller...feed that mut will you. Oh, he's a drug sniffing dog. Send me a dozen of those, please.