Hit and Run

[TriGem2k]

Hey guys/gals I have a simple question.

This morning a lady hit my daily driver (not the porsche) and tried to take off. I followed her, got her license plate number called the police and finally was able to "exchange" information. Come to find out she doesn't have a US drivers license or insurance. The police obtained as much information from her as possible then gave her my information with all my insurance info and drivers license number.

Here is my question... The lady claimed to the officer she did not hit me and the damange to my car was already there even though my paint was on her car...

The damage is not bad enough for me to want to go through my insurance since she doesn't have any but now that she has my information what would happen if she called my insurance company and claimed I hit her? I don't want to have to claim it as the damage is minor and wont cost me much to repair but I also don't know if she will try and pull a fast one and call my insurance reversing the situation.

What do you guys think is the best way to handle the situation?

Thanks,
James D.

[ARModen]

Simple, make sure there is a police report on what happened. Then if she tries to come back and get something from you, you can refer her to the cops. Even better if you have a copy of the report, or at least the number of the report so the cops can pull it up later. I'm surprised they didn't arrest her for the lack of insurance and license.

[eightsandaces]

Get a copy of the police report and read it, I would hope the office would give you deference given she has reasons to flee. She should have been ticketed or arrested for driving without a license, something should give you an edge in the truth coming out in this report, good luck.

[Viper5]

It really comes down to what type of person you are and how you feel about the situation.

You could always sue her and not have your insurance pay for anything (thats the point of having insurance in the first place). If your insurance does not pay for any damages, even if she calls them up and says whatever, you are still fine and your rates will not increase.

There is no reason why they should let her on the road again. Thats ridiculous if true.

You don't need to worry about her saying anything to anyone if she doesn't have insurance or doesn't even have a license! That deems it automatically her fault. I'm pretty sure even if you rear ended her, that would still be the case since she had no business being a driver in the first place. Just make sure that info is in the police report.

[jcb986]

This is why I am disgusted with the foreigners, illegals in this country. They want take responsibility for their actions. I live in Florida, had a delivery driver for me bump someone at a red light back in the early 90's, all because someone ran the red light and the vehicle in front her went forward then made a sudden stop to keep from being creamed. My driver put a small dent in her bumper. Since it was just 2 blocks from us I went and and oversaw that insurance and license numbers where exchanged and also told the victim that we would pay the cost of the repair to keep our insurance rates from going up. She was completely happy and I apologized for the inconvenience that this may caused her, and she replied, it was neither of there faults because the red light runner is what started it all.
Now her husband says, you need to get a police report and believe or not, they charged our driver with the accident and also charged her with leaving the scene of an accident. I had a discussion with the police officer and told him what happened and that we exchanged insurance info and all and that our company was going to pay the dent to be fixed. But since her husband started this with police department they had to follow through. Not only that, if an accident is under $500 the police did not to be called to a fender bender.
Now I noticed you live in CA, I guess your laws or very liberal. But, you can ask for the a police report and also they could charge her with leaving the scene. Maybe you can get justice this way.

[Perfectlap]

you could probably file a small claims court suit against her for a minimum amount.
She most likely will not appear in court and a judgment will be entered in your favor which should be all the cover you need. Unless she's flat broke, you could offer to drop the suit for an amount you think she might go for. Better something than nothing.

[kabel]

Not a simple question really, not in this day and age. I have personal experience in a situation much like this and I am surprised she was not charged with a criminal misdemeanor hit and run.

If you do not want to involve the insurance companies, that is up to you, but you really need to have a police report that has your side of the story and hers, and if you have an attorney, make them aware of the incident.

[Perfectlap]

by the way, looks like your cops went easy on her. Florida and some other states are handing over illegals involved in fender benders to the Feds for detention and deportation after failing to show papers. No stoping home to pack up the house and kids...it's right to the plane. I used to work in federal LE so I've seen this first hand, and this was before 9/11, much tougher now from what I hear. This all has caused a big problem Child Services agencies because the kids go months sometimes before they can figure out how to send them back or to put them into foster care. Which sorta encourages the hit and run behavior. This is one reason why I'm not in favor of local cops doing the job of the feds much like I don't like cops engaging in high speed chases for auto theft. It only causes more problems for the inefficent state govt to deal with.

[jcb986]

The system no longer protects, it is now just a business.

[Johnny Danger]

Originally Posted by TriGem2k

Hey guys/gals I have a simple question.

This morning a lady hit my daily driver (not the porsche) and tried to take off. I followed her, got her license plate number called the police and finally was able to "exchange" information. Come to find out she doesn't have a US drivers license or insurance. The police obtained as much information from her as possible then gave her my information with all my insurance info and drivers license number.

Here is my question... The lady claimed to the officer she did not hit me and the damange to my car was already there even though my paint was on her car...

The damage is not bad enough for me to want to go through my insurance since she doesn't have any but now that she has my information what would happen if she called my insurance company and claimed I hit her? I don't want to have to claim it as the damage is minor and wont cost me much to repair but I also don't know if she will try and pull a fast one and call my insurance reversing the situation.

What do you guys think is the best way to handle the situation?

Thanks,
James D.

Was this women issued a citation ? I most states, operating a motor upon a public way that is uninsured is a criminal offense. In addition, depending upon whether or not this women was duly licensed, that can also be a criminal violation. Finally, knowingly leaving the scene of a motor vehicle accident/property damage is a criminal offense as well. And in some circumstances is arrestable, particularly if personal injury occurs. It doesn't sound like California's finest did much of a thorough job is this case.

[TriGem2k]

Well I talked to the women finally or errr had a conversation traslated though her son and she admitted to having an expired passport and then I was given the sad story of only being here so she can be with her family blah blah blah.

I'm letting it go, getting it fixed on my own dime and thats that.

I'm pissed that no one does anything to get these leaches out of our country! I pay taxes, you pay taxes and they do nothing!

[Perfectlap]

Originally Posted by TriGem2k

Well I talked to the women finally or errr had a conversation traslated though her son and she admitted to having an expired passport and then I was given the sad story of only being here so she can be with her family blah blah blah.

I'm letting it go, getting it fixed on my own dime and thats that.

I'm pissed that no one does anything to get these leaches out of our country! I pay taxes, you pay taxes and they do nothing!

I wouldn't fold that easy man. I'd politely ask them to cough up a COD check or face the consequences of a disgruntled Porsche owner. I mean I'm not going to ask for a king's ransom but they need to pay you something. Anything.

As for the illegals not paying taxes. That's not entirely true. I have a ton of friends who own all manner of companies that deal in hospitality, catering, restaurants, construction, landscaping, cleaning services, etc. They all employ illegals. Well these people don't show up one morning and say "Hi, I just hopped the big fence..can I have a yob?". From what I'm told 98% of them produce a social security card that either belongs to someone who died, moved out of the country for good, etc. These people are payed by check, no cash under the table jobs (huge fines for that, not to mention IRS heat). FIT, medicare, Social Security taxes are deducted each week just like us legal citizens. Now when you consider that it's believed that there are enough illegals to fill a large state...well that's A LOT of money sitting in accounts that will never be collected from. Probably tens of billions of dollars. The illegals are long gone by then. They typically stay a few years and go back home with their savings because you really can't hack it on minimum wage in this country for too long. And the really ironic thing about this point is that we are losing as many as 3 retired workers (mostly baby boomers) for every new worker. In other words we don't have enough people paying into social security to comensate for the fact that retiring workers are living longer and taking out more than they put in.

And what's more, the LEGAL immigrants are filling jobs that pay way higher than the average U.S. income like financial analysts, IT, computer programmers, medical, etc. because we don't have enough citizens with enough math and science in their educational backgrounds. I think we should be more concerned with the issue of why we need legal immigrant workers vs why we have so many illegal workers...although the illegals seem to leaving due to the long recession and Americans more willing to take any minimum wage job.

[husker boxster]

I agree with Perfectlap, make a return visit and see if they'll scratch out a check. Maybe the threat of further action will scare them. They may snub their nose at you but it's worth a shot.

If that doesn't work, you're probably best off moving on and fixing it yourself. Taking the time and effort to sue them will probably end up a Pyrrhic victory. You win but you're not going to get anything from it.

Sorry about my political stmt earlier. Glad the thread has stayed on topic.

[TriGem2k]

So many big words I think I'm going to have to hire my counsel just to read the thread and translate it all to me in plain English..

I agree with both PL and Husker however I just don't think its worth my time to try and get a nickle or dime out of this lady. One part of me says that I probably should push a little more just to "teach them a lesson" but the other side of me just says to brush it under the rug and dig into my mods fund and get it fixed.

Actually its already being fixed...I had a spare bumper for the car that was never painted and dropped it off this morning so I can have it installed Saturday. Costing me $300 for prep and paint plus whatever my wheel guy is going to charge me to fix the damage on the wheel. My guess is its all said and done for about $400.

I may end up giving her a call tomorrow....well see.

[2TrunkSteve]

Insurance claims are a civil matter in California and the Police Report would only be used as support for the Claim Rep's investigation. They do not determine fault as far as the insurer is concerned, but simply help support what happened. If you were involved in an accident with her and it was determined that you were at failt, you would have liability to her regardless of her status (illegal alien, no license or not insured - doesn't matter).

If she were to file a claim, your carrier would investigate both sides. They are supposed to be protecting you from liability and they will take your statement as well as her statement. If the two sides are conflicting they will investigate further (points of impact, witness statements, etc) and make a liability determination.

Taking her to small claims can be difficult. Getting proper service on someone that is here illegally is tough. Assuming you do get service, getting a judgment is usually not difficult. The really hard part is collecting on the judgment. She probably doesn't have assets or a job with significant income. You can't simply lien her personal property or take her income in California, those moves require a judge's order and a second trip to court to get it.

Unfortunately you are probably best off handling the repair and moving on. It's not usually economical to pursue someone who in uninsured....there's a reason they don't have insurance, it's because they don't have money.

Doesn't make it right, but that's usually what it is.

[Johnny Danger]

Originally Posted by 2TrunkSteve

Insurance claims are a civil matter in California and the Police Report would only be used as support for the Claim Rep's investigation. They do not determine fault as far as the insurer is concerned, but simply help support what happened. If you were involved in an accident with her and it was determined that you were at failt, you would have liability to her regardless of her status (illegal alien, no license or not insured - doesn't matter).

If she were to file a claim, your carrier would investigate both sides. They are supposed to be protecting you from liability and they will take your statement as well as her statement. If the two sides are conflicting they will investigate further (points of impact, witness statements, etc) and make a liability determination.

Taking her to small claims can be difficult. Getting proper service on someone that is here illegally is tough. Assuming you do get service, getting a judgment is usually not difficult. The really hard part is collecting on the judgment. She probably doesn't have assets or a job with significant income. You can't simply lien her personal property or take her income in California, those moves require a judge's order and a second trip to court to get it.

Unfortunately you are probably best off handling the repair and moving on. It's not usually economical to pursue someone who in uninsured....there's a reason they don't have insurance, it's because they don't have money.

Doesn't make it right, but that's usually what it is.

To the contrary notwithstanding, based on all the reasons you just stated, when a citation is issued under these circumstances, particularly a criminal complaint, it serves to approbate the claim of the victim/insured. I don't know what the law is in California. However, the violations that I previously outlined are generally considered criminal offenses in most states. When insurance companies try to abrogate their responsibilities in these types of cases (and they do), its to the benefit of the claimant when they can demonstrate civil and criminal liability on the part of the other person.

[2TrunkSteve]

You would be partially correct in my experience and I didn't intend to speak for all possibilities. In California (Utah, Colorado and Illinois are also similiar - that's where my experience has been) the criminal court proceedings will generally consider civil damages from an individual victim, however, they often view civil and criminal complaints as seperate. I have seen few instances where a restitution order has been issued by the criminal court for the benefit an individual victim. That said, in practice the prosecutor will not have the information to present to the court to seek civil damages in the sentencing phase of a criminal case, even if they are holding a correctly completed Victim's Statement. Most individuals are not savy enough to the legal system to know how to handle this process to begin with. Even if they are, the reality is the judges will often choose to leave the financial loss as a seperate civil matter pursuit and not incorporate it into the criminal case. The success rate is very low in my experience.

The main take-away of my prior post was that regardless of the success in any court proceeding, there is still the issue of getting blood from the turnip.

Maybe we should get back to driving.......this is starting to feel like work.

[Johnny Danger]

Originally Posted by 2TrunkSteve

You would be partially correct in my experience and I didn't intend to speak for all possibilities. In California (Utah, Colorado and Illinois are also similiar - that's where my experience has been) the criminal court proceedings will generally consider civil damages from an individual victim, however, they often view civil and criminal complaints as seperate. I have seen few instances where a restitution order has been issued by the criminal court for the benefit an individual victim. That said, in practice the prosecutor will not have the information to present to the court to seek civil damages in the sentencing phase of a criminal case, even if they are holding a correctly completed Victim's Statement. Most individuals are not savy enough to the legal system to know how to handle this process to begin with. Even if they are, the reality is the judges will often choose to leave the financial loss as a seperate civil matter pursuit and not incorporate it into the criminal case. The success rate is very low in my experience.

The main take-away of my prior post was that regardless of the success in any court proceeding, there is still the issue of getting blood from the turnip.

Maybe we should get back to driving.......this is starting to feel like work.

Setting aside the legal process, in most states where liability is generally determined by who was at "fault "?, the first questioned an insurance company will ask, which operator was "cited" ? From there the burden of liability is always placed on the violator.

Enough said, you're right lets get back to driving!