What was "lost" from the 986?
 

I'm aware of the various changes (improvements?) made when the 987 model came out.

But for those that moved from 986 to 987, is there anything that you feel was "lost"? Something in the way the car feels or sounds or drives etc... that you feel was actually better in the 986 (besides just visual/cosmetic things).

crcguy

The 986 and the 987 are great cars. The 987 is better. Just like the 987.2 is better than the 987.1. Porsche is very good at doing this.

That depends on your point of view and definition of "better".

More options, more refinement, more weight, more isolation, all could be considered better or worse depending on what you're looking for.

I personally prefer the 1978-83 911 SC to any 911 that came after, I think it's "better" from a driver's car standpoint, most would probably disagree.

I've owned a base 986 and an S 986
 

and taken test drives in the 987. I flat out liked the 987 better. Not better enough to spend my money upgrading but then I don't buy new cars and am a relative tightwad.

Money no object, given my choice I'd get the 987 and fit it with a spare tire from a 986 and an LN IMS if it was pre-2009. The 987 not having a spare is the one big complaint I've heard.

For the price, the 986 is the bargain and I still find joy in driving it even after 5 years. It waits in the garage with its top down for tomorrow and its 60 degrees...finally. I can't imagine the 987 would give any more fun ... how could it?

Everyone has their opinion and mine is that the looks really didn't produce an evolution.

The kidney bean headlights were 100% Porsche. They were replaced with something you'd see on many Japanese and Korean cars. That was a big disappointment for me. The 996 Turbo headlights seemed like that evolution and I was hoping to see something like that but with an update tossed in on the 987.

The doorhandle went to a traditional design from the minimalist 986. Didn't like that either.

The air intake....what in the world is that? :) A very fluid 986 intake form was replaced with something really bizzare.

Wheels. I haven't seen anything on the Boxster in factory form that I feel would get the 'classic Porsche' brand like the 5 spoke Carreras.

Overall, the fender lines seem more a throw back to the 993 than original Boxster concept that seem more LeMans prototype.

Interior. This is where they really lost me. The materials were a huge improvement from the plastic bits that were never updated from 1997-2004.
That was a mistake. Porsche should have upgraded the materials but kep the concept interior design. What we got instead was what I would call frumpy.
The steering wheel on the 987 and 997 in particular seem very boring to me.
The dash seems more like something you would see on VW or Audi. Porsches shouldn't look like those cars, neither the headlights nor the interiors. I know they're cousins but we are the hot cousin.

All that said, the engineering is obviously a big improvement, particularly the 3.4 engine. But as is always the case with Porsche 'over-engineering' results in a car that feels a bit more disconnected and numb.

I drove a 987 and instantly noticed I would miss the mechanical connection between the throttle pedal and the throttle body. So I decided to stay with my pre-00 986.

Plus I have no money. ;)

I own a mint 2003 986 S and have driven the 987 recently for a few days when my dealer gave me a loaner. They want me to upgrade so bad they found me a loaner in the same color.

I have the same issues with the interior as Perfectlap. I don't like all the straight lines and painted plastic horizontal strips. Personally I think the 986 interior will full leather is a better design. I found the instrument cluster to be more confusing, especially when the radio kept putting song titles up in the middle of the tach?!

I also found the engine note to be less of a growl like a tiger, and more of an electronic note. In general it felt less mechanical and more electronic and complicated. To be fair it did have paddle shifters and I am a fan of simple cars. I also do not like the side vents.

There were things I did like better. I think the swept back changes to the sheet metal are nice. I like the new headlights too. I guess it's faster?.. but it didn't feel faster. It just felt easier. To me the 986 is the design that caused a sensation, and the best iteration is the 03-04 S.

The dealer was salivating when I brought it back... they thought I was crazy not to want the new one.

Two things come to mind immediately.

No dipstick on the newer 986s and 987s.
I don't really like the digital readout, especially when you also need to wait an eternity to get a reading, after the engine's been running.

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j3...PICT0001-6.jpg

Moving the digital speedo to the side gauge, rather than under the tach's center gauge.

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j3...123456copy.jpg

Happy Boxstering,
Pedro

Different strokes for different folks!

I like the 987 (of course, I bought one), and thought the 986 is starting to look a bit dated, including the side vents and interior. My wife says it looks a BIT less like a Miata! (sorry) I love the clean, uncluttered lines of the interior. You do get used to the scrolling station titles, but I do wish you could display only the station number(freq.). The radio presets also tend to blend together, many small buttons in a row.

Personally, if had had wanted a "raw" feeling car, I would have bought an S2000. I do wish they had kept the weight and size down though. Oddly, I like the brake pedal feel of my '94 Integra better than the 987, whih is too soft, with too much initial travel. I like a rock hard brake pedal. I didn't notice any difference in the gas pedal feel compared to "cable" cars.

Steve

I also would like to have a dipstick! ( and a spare )

I think the speed moved over to the speedometer in '01.

I like the 987 look and when Excellence magazine reviewed it, they commented on how much more muscular it was in performance. Still, I like my 986, especially with litronics in it and a GT3 front end and lip. A neighbor has a cherry Miata, side by side the differences are clear. The 2.5 has a very nice engine note, kept at the proper RPM's and tuned out with the enthusiasm we bring to the dance, it can run with many other sports cars in a variety of conditions. (or at least it used to, time will tell whether it becomes the consummate garage queen on stands).

Sorry for the hijack, but what are those two things in the foam? Boat transom plugs?

spare bleed valves

Cheers!

I'm older so to my experience a Sports Car is a very specific and narrowly defined thing. Thats what Sports Cars were when I became driving age and that's what I always think of when someone says Sports Car.

This usually meant balance, lightness, handling and braking over power. It also usually meant a minimum of creature comforts - the comfort was in the driving, not the cupholders, stereo, traction control and digital doowhackys.

It also meant that it wasn't created for, or marketed to, everybody. It was a daily driver for only the most Hard Core. Taking an Infinity GXX and rebadging it a 350Z 'Sports Car' is exactly the opposite of what a Sports Car used to mean.

In this light, the 986 is much closer to it's original vision than the 987 will ever be.

I could buy any Boxster on the market, but the only ones I'd ever own would be the 1st Gen 986.

Good thing for Porsche that not everyone shares my view.

Cheers!

Good Eye...
 

... they are boat transom plugs which I use for completely silencing my PSE (Pedro Sport Exhaust) hack by forcing the exhaust through the OEM muffler.

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j3...PICT0004-5.jpg

Happy Boxstering,
Pedro

OK... that's a new one on me. It's a good day whenever you learn something new. Today was a good day!

Cheers!

Well people are getting dumber these days, they have to look at the TPMS to check tire pressure as supposed to the original method. They also need a computer to tell them when they need oil change.

I work in IT and even I hate all these computer crap overtaking cars!

Sorry my friend has a Superformance Cobra, no computers, no stability control, no airbags. You can put your arms over the door (you cannot do this anymore on modern cars because of increased safety). You need to learn how to drive it because there's no computer to safe your life.

For the same reason I kind of want a 356 Speedster, but my friends told me I already got a great car and should stop dreaming.

Ekam, You certainly have a nice car, sometimes we lose our perspective and gratitude. After all, many people will only dream their entire life of driving a Porsche at all.

I've had the pleasure of driving a 356. It's a fantastic car if you're into the unfiltered driving experience. Driving a Boxster is like trying to read braile with gloves on compared to the 356 and the old 911s that I love. I still own the 30 year old Rx-7 that I learned to drive in because I haven't found a car that's more fun to drive.

I'm like lil and you, I have no interest in refinement, options or luxuries in my sports cars.

I have only put 1,000 miles on my 06, and it still freaks me out when the stability control kicks in. When I'm fully comfortable with the car, I expect to take my "sprited" drives with it turned off. I have a '65 Mustang for my back-to-basics driving. If I ever finish it!

I updated from a base 1999 986 to a base 2006 987 for lots of reasons.

40 more horsepower. I'm no longer embarrassed when stepping on the accelerator in 5th gear.

Sounds more like a Porsche.

Highly upgraded interior. The old one was too cheap and plasticky.

Glass rear window. No longer have to do the chop when lowering the top.

Creature comforts like homelink, rain sensing wipers, remote key for both trunks, a glovebox.

Cross drilled rotors.

I like the more aggressive look and the new headlights.

I could go on, but think I've made my point.

You can turn off the PSM (Porsche Stability Management, a.k.a. Please Save Me) but it will kick back in automatically when specific thresholds are meet and exceeded (like wheel spin, braking, car spin, and etc.).

All great perspectives from different ages and starting points!
My first Porsche was a 1964 356C Cabriolet. Being a Cabrio was very important because I push started that car, by myself, more than I ever pushed anything. If it were a hard top, there would have been no way to push it, jump in, get it in gear and dump the clutch in time to start that piece of crap Bosch 6 volt system!! I lived in Miami when I owned it, so there were no hills to park on.
I loved that car!!
By the way, it had headlights that look almost exactly like the 987 headlights (basic overall shape)..........so I don't want to hear about 986 headlights looking more like a Porsche, it's all from your age and perspective. The 987 also reminds me a great deal of the 356 looking out the windshield.
My next was a 1968 911. It made the 356 seem both arcaic and slower than my first sports car, a 1961 MGA. The 911 was a brute (for it's day) and a purely scintilating car to drive. It made no allowances for wimpy driving and would kick your ass if you even thought about "breathing off" the throttle in a corner. If you forgot to keep the RPM over 3000 it would foul spark plugs in less than a minute.
Keeping the double 3-barrel Weber carbs clean and synchronized was a full time job that would test the patience of a dead man. I loved every second of it. Changing plugs and adjusting the valves really required an extra elbow in your right arm, but I couldn't find a doc who could do it, so I cussed and bled like every other 911 owner who couldn't afford the dealer. Front brake pads lasted about 8k miles.
I absolutely loved my 68 911.
Next was my favorite, from a pure driving standpoint - 1971 914/6. It had the same Weber carbureted 2 liter of the 68, but in a much lighter and mid engine car. Although it made the 911 seem sophisticated, NOTHING came close to the thrill of tossing that perfectly balanced sports car around any corner you could find. I learned to drive, I mean really DRIVE, in that car. You could do anything with it. It was perfection in motion. As Lil Bastard said above in describing what we consider a sports car, the 914/6 is my definition. My brother bought the car new and then they had a baby, so I bought it from him - for $3500!!!!! I ended up selling it back to him two years later, so I could buy my first Formula Ford.
We've often talked about that car and compared it to my 987 and have come to the conclusion that had Porsche built the 914 as a Porsche, rather than a VW, and had it looked like the next generation 911, like a Cayman/Boxster, rather than whatever a 914 was supposed to look like, there may not be any other sports car companies. Why bother?
I also bought/restored/sold five 914/4s over the years, but they were a sad excuse for the 6, especially the VW brakes and wheels.
The next 25 years I spent in and out of formula cars and a couple of sports racers and quite frankly, any street car in comparison is quite like comparing a Piper Cub to an F14. It also pretty much satisfied the "pure sports car" genes!!
Now to 986/987. In full disclosure I haven't owned a 986, but had two different 986-S cars for weekend tests. The first was an 01 and the second was an 04. They were almost like a first and second generation of the 986, to me. In all fairness, they were both used and obviously the 01 was 3 years older, even though it had 10k fewer miles. To me, everything about the 04 was more sophisticated and worked better and smoother than the 01, but at the same time, the 01 did not fell more "pure" to me. To me, a Porsche is supposed to be the state of the art and, in comparison, the next Boxster I had for a weekend, my 987, was far closer to that state of the art in how EVERYTHING on the car was just that touch better. I thought the steering had a little less feel, but at the same time was a little more responsive and secure feeling. The seats fit and held me better and Wifey made the same comment. I liked the interior design, fit and finish much more. I thought the ergonomics of the interior were better and it had both more room and better organization of that room. I thought it both rode better and held the road better. I agree about not having a spare, just like the RX8- it is stupid.
I like the 987 body shape better, but do like the 986 side intakes. As you can see by my pic, I like the Cayman side intakes best of all three designs.
After the 914/6 and racing mid engine cars for 25 years, I was not interested in what I quite frankly think is over engineered 1960's technology - the 911. I don't want 300 lbs of mass hanging out behind the rear wheels or all the engineering over-corrections needed to make it work as well as it does. In all honesty, if Porsche put all that trick GT/Cup Car stuff in a Cayman, the Grand AM RX8s, Camaros, and G8s couldn't smell their exhaust fumes.
So what does this 5000 word essay mean, in the end? Not a damned thing, other than I had a Saturday evening to kill!! :D
But it means just the same as all the other comments above because as I said in the first line, it's all about your perspective, your age and what YOU are looking for in YOUR car. :cheers:

^Holy $hit, you need to "buy" a freaking paragraph, Kurt!

Are you ready for the second half???? :D

I just upgraded from a Boxster 99 (986) to a boxster S 2006 (987S), I like the 987! It is a very nice upgrade, and I have nothing to complain.. the only thing I am missing yet (after 2-3 rides) is the windows button in the center.

I was use to do everything (Switch Gear, Control Radio, Temperature and Windows) with my right hand while leaving my left hand always on the steering. So I could put the windows up between shifting when entering on the Highway.. Now I feel all lost having to take my left hand to control windows..

But I'm sure I'll get used to it.. ;)

I can't say what was 'lost' from the 986, but I think alot was lost from driving in general.

Kurt, I never drove a 914/6 but I loved my 914/4! It wasn't fast, but I was living on Maui at the time so it had plenty of power for the roads there. It was a blast to drive, took a beating and never let me down.

My 2000 986S (no T/C) is the newest Porsche I've owned and love it, but compared to the old Porsches it's missing that "feel." I know modern cars with all the computer controlled throttles, transmissions, brakes, and differentials are superior in every way but is technology taking cars ahead into the future in the wrong direction? As an engineer I love all the advancements but we seem to be getting disconnected from the thrill that turned us into gearheads. Is being cushioned by a cloud of technology always a good thing? The Nissan GTR comes to mind, capable of making almost any driver look like a pro. Some cars should still be produced that still holds onto that old go-kart thrill of driving.

Are cars too safe, too easy to drive now? Seems like that's the way society of going now, safe cars, safe sex, safe war, don't spank your kids, don't yell at new recruits in Basic Training 'cuz you'll stress them out. Due to new safety standards and legislations we will never have exciting cars to drive anymore, cars that were just bare bones excitement unless you're lucky enough to save a classic car to drive. Sometimes a 50hp 356 can be more fun than a 2010 Carrera.

A good friend of mine is an ex-Navy pilot, used to be THE test pilot for the F14 Tomcat before delivery to the Navy. He told me in many ways he enjoys flying his ultralight, felt the thrill of being a pilot, over the F14!

If your car feels too safe and insulated, here is a prescription to cure it:

1) Get some sticky tires on light rims
2) Increase sway bar sizes. Might as well eliminate the understeer by maxing-out the front camber.
3) Put some grabby/noisey brake pads in.
4) Increase spring stiffness and shock damping (oh hell, might as well buy coilovers).
5) Replace the dual-mass flywheel with a lightweight single-mass unit. Might as well install a grabby clutch while you're in there.
6) Replace the exhaust with something louder. Try not to concern yourself with whether or not you are adding or losing horsepower.
7) Replace the seats with racing/sport seats. The harder to get out of the better.
8) Do something unreasonable to make the car lighter (Remove some of the carpeting/insulation? Toss the A/C?).

Whether it's a 986 or 987, your car will gain back a lot of the mechanical feedback the engineers worked so hard to insulate you from. Now it is not everybody's Porsche, it is YOUR (meaning, my) Porsche. Will it be less civilized? You bet, but when you get it out on a canyon road (or on the track) it will be well worth it!

p.s. Make sure to turn the Stabilty Control OFF!

I'll tell you what, guys, there are a TON of older Formula cars and sports racers for sale CHEAP! Get one and go track it with a group like VDCA, SVRA or HSR. They are all Vintage racing organizations that put fun way, way, way ahead of all the BS that goes with SCCA racing. I'd love to get 10 grand for my ex-multiple-championship winning Club Ford and that's WAY less than you'll spend on the above list of stuff that will make your Boxster a pain in the ass to drive like what you bought it for!!

pffft
 

If you guys really want to appreciate your 986, do what I do and drive a 2005 diesel smart ForTwo for the winter 6 months of the year.

THEN get back into your Boxster. Hoo baby. Summer fun!

Don't get me wrong, the smart is also a performance machine; however it is a fuel economy performance machine. I love both vehicles for different reasons and each makes me appreciate the other.

Great feedback from all of you. thanks!

I used to own a 1980 honda prelude that didn't have power steering or power brakes. I still remember what the steering felt like--I really enjoyed it.

I would definitely pay money for a stripped down Boxster with no power steering, actual throttle cable, manual top etc... I would have picked up an Elise if it wasn't so harsh as a DD. you guys are right, all this technology has insulated us from the driving experience--in an effort I guess to overcome driving skill inadequecies and improve fuel economy.

Seems there's a market for those that want a pure connection to the road but in a car that is comfortable as a DD. Like if an Elise and a Boxster had sex and produced offspring.

Anyone want to start a car company? :D

I've wanted to for years!!

How about a first generation MR2 with a 2.0 TDI Diesel and VW 7spd PDK??
The 1st gens weighed in at a miserly 2150 lb.!! The 2 liter VW TDI has more HP and about twice the torque of the Toyota 1.6 and with the 7 speed twin clutch transmission?? You gotta be kidding me!! What would it get? 70 MPG?

How about a 1500 lb. roadster built like an oversized sports racer using a Fiat 124 windshield assembly and fold down top? No AC, no PS, no PW, no BS, just a fun as hell and efficient commuter/sports car? It could use any number of front engine/front wheel drive power units, whatever you prefer.

Drop the PDK and drop the diesel fuel, and you have something worth considering.

The anti-fun police would show up, take away your toy, all in the name of protecting you from yourself, and imminent happiness.

BC.

I like it!!! I've been looking for a first gen MR2 for awhile, in parallel to my first box. it was a great design. You're combination is a good one. I was excited to see the VW Bluesport prototype. I like the diesel sports car/roadster concept. fuel economy is of course a main driver but the torque makes for great fun. maybe we'll pick up some roller MR2's and get started. We will probably have to offer a manual tranny alongside PDK--- assuming it comes up as a key buying factor for our target segment. Oh and, one of those keyless starting systems--I've always loved the idea of just pushing a start button with the key still in my pocket.

I'll round up the VC money, you start looking for those roller MR2s :cheers:

Having owned a 2004 Boxster S and a brand new 2011 Boxster S I can say the new one is definitely better bcus:

40 more bhp and more torque. more fun to drive. great road feel.
the 6 speed is smoother, better. a true joy. best stick ever.
the digital speedo is much better located as are all the readout. the dash is much improved.
Lots more toys-
Computer standard
tire pressure monitor
xenon lights that turn
ventillated seats
power seats with memory
Sports Exhaust awesome.
Navigation has altitude feature. great in the mountains.
bluetooth
XM radio built in rather than an add-on
the LED lights look good
self-dimming mirrors
rain sensitive wipers

only downside is no spare :(

all this for $7k more in 10 years. Not bad.

Life is good.