HARD water...what is the cure
 

So i live out in the monterey bay area in cali and well... the water here is hard as hell... if any dries on the car it is a ******************** to get off... also it makes it damn near impossible to get a spot free shine are there any tips out there to fix this? also i have tried so many different rags towels etc and none of them absorb the water effectively in time

Move somewhere that has soft water! :-) There is no perfect cure. There are a few devices that remove the minerals and soften the water. They are kinda expensive but might be worth it if the problem is that bad. As for towels, I find that a water blade to remove the majority and some microfibers to do the detail work seems to do well. However around here the water is so soft I could let it dry on its own without spotting.

Also make sure that your washing in the shade or when it is cool *cloudy, night, dawn* to prevent the water from drying too fast. You could also put up a pop-tent to shade the car when your washing. It sounds like a PITA but prevents the elbow grease of removing water spots. Which by the way, detailing clay takes care of those easily, but requires waxing afterward as a minimum.

944 has the answer - wash your car at dusk or in the shade. Otherwise, especially on a dark car, you'll never get the water off in time. My wife's Jeep is black, and if I try to wash it during the day, it looks like absolute crap. I can't wash it fast enough to keep the water from drying on the part I do first.

You should be able to dry it quickly if you rinse properly. You have to take the sprayer off of the hose and then rinse with the hose close to the car. This causes a sheeting action. Then a small towel will dry the entire car.

Griots garage makes an insanely expensive filtering car wash system. The Mr. Clean unit that came out a couple years ago works on a similar principle for a bout a third of the cost, you might want to google it and see what peeps are saying.

Soft Water
 

I put in a whole house water softener for obvious reasons. I then had the plumber hook up two outdoor faucets. One has untreated water for the lawn, garden, etc. The other goes through the softener to provide water for car washing. I washed the Box yesterday and in addition to using the leaf blower to dry the wheels, I also blew the excess water off the entire body before drying with microfiber towels.

Yeah, I've read about using that technique. I tend to do the opposite: As I progress with the car washing/rinsing, I keep wetting down the areas that I've already rinsed, so that it doesn't dry. When I'm done, I use a chamois---a technique that some advocate and some (including our resident expert in the area of detailing, Perfectlap) condemn. As long as it's a quality chamois (and replaced from time to time), I've used them year after year with (far as I can tell) no adverse effects on the finish. I don't seem to have water spot problems. Two things that might come into play in my case: (1) I live in Ohio, and it's obviously not as hot and dry as it is in southern California; and (2) while our water is moderately hard, it may be less so than yours.

Though there's clearly more work involved, I would also think that you could do the following after washing: Take a quality microfiber towel, spray it with a quick detail product (I use Optimum No Rinse) to the point of being moist, and quickly wipe down the finish. I would think that would remove spots as long as they hadn't baked in the sun for too long.

Also, regarding claying. There's a clay made by Sonus (don't remember the name of it, but it's light green in color) that is soft/gentle enough not to adversely affect the wax. Ie, one that would remove the spots without removing the wax.

CLR and Limeaway will remove hard water spots. You might try a final wipe with some of the product.

Clr
 

Use a diluted amount of CLR on your spots and problem areas. Spray it on and just rinse it off. I don't know if you have that product in your area. It's common here. We have high levels of lime in our water. I use it for lots of different applications. I found out that it rinses off hard water spots 10 years ago. If anyone else has used this with success, chime in!

Sean

Just google "hard water car wash". I found thousands of responses. Here is one.

"I went down to Home Depot and picked up a 3-gallon commercial spray bottle. I filled it with distilled water, and I used the distilled water as a final rinse after rinsing the car with tap water. I used about 1 1/2 gallons (about $1.50 worth of water) and there was not one water spot on the whole car!"



http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6928

Thanks all for the advice there is definitely some good stuff in this thread. As far as water softeners I'm not sure I can afford some complex system but the distilled water idea may be a good. Route along with someclr to remove spots alread there

try washing with optimum no rinse instead of a hose wash. You'll unfortunately need to go down to wal-mart and get some of that cheap water they sell to you where you fill up your own container. I guess you'll need to be a little more economical with the amount of water you use. Generally two ounces of No Rinse solutions is used with one gallon of water. That's plenty to wiped down the car.

as far as rain, that could be tricky but I recommend the following:
after claying the car use an acrylic paste wax. I use FK1 1000P. It dries like cement. I use at least two coats for max coverage. Once it dries use a polymer spray like FK1 #425 frequently. It provides a very slippery surface that might be tricky for droplets to bond to.

here's another Optimum product

LINK

How bad is it to take my car through the laserwash?

2 weeks ago Big Lots had shelves of the Mr. Clean starter systems for 4 bucks each. I used one in Sedona on my black benz and didn't have a spot for 6 washes. Just let it air dry too. And Sedona has the hardest water I have ever seen. I cleaned off an entire shelf at big lots. Hopefully a 10 year supply.

if it has the jets that spray directly at your doors you might want to stuff a towel in the slats of the air intake to keep any soap and water out.

car wash detergent is really not good for the canvas top. You have to use Raggtopp cleanser for that. The car wash soap attracts dust and breaks down the canvas.

$ 5. at CVS pharmacy here in So.CA

What is this Mr Clean product? I don't own ANYTHING to wash cars with, so if I try I'd be starting from scratch.

Its a cleaning system that you put on the end of a garden hose. It comes with detergent and a replaceable filter. They say to replace the filter after 3 uses but as I said, I have gotten 6 out of them.

1-two one gallon buckets (home depot)
2-On Bottle Optimum NoRinse
3- wheel face brush
4-1Z leather cleaner
5-12-20 microfiber towels (at least) and drying towel
6-Sponge (home depot grout sponges are fine)
7-soft brush to clean the top
8-Raggtopp kit (for the top)
9-bottle of plexus (if you have plastic window, works on headlights and windscreen)
10-one gallon of FK1 #425 (cleans dash, glass, paint touch up, wheels)
11-long brush to reach under the car.
12- spoke brush to clean the wheel barrel and spokes
13-Armor All Tire Foam (just bought this works well)...Pep Boys
14-a good cleaning wax (Klasse just to keep it simple).

I'm not recommending car wash soap because you really don't need it. The No Rinse solution mixed into a bucket of water will do the job unless you drive through mud. wiped down the car with a sponge and then use the wheel brush with the water that's left to brush off the wheels and tires. Spray the car down with 425 and you're done (I recommend this spray bottle). I can do all of this in 15 minutes. If I get out the car wash soap and hose that's a lot longer and too much bucket and hose wash wrecks the paint.

Alright, Perfectlap, tell me more about No-Rinse...

I gather that I dont pre-wet the car. I get my solution of No-Rinse and water, dip a microfiber towel in it and wipe down the car. I then just dry it with another Microfiber towel and I am done????

Seems too simple.

Is this accurate?

It really IS that simple! It my experience ONR is not that great for cleaning wheels and I still prefer P21S gel ... but that requires a hose.

as Timoty said yes its that simple. I mean think about it. How dirty does an ethusiast car really ever get? If you've got enough wax on the car the dirt should just slide off with the wet sponge (prefer a sponge or sheepskin to MF towel, no pricky ends).

However its not a bad idea to hold the sponge over the panel so that the water trickles down onto the surface. That will lossen the dirt and cut down on the friction. I might do this to all the panels and then go back and wipe down the first panels in that order. Friction is your enemy when washing and drying.

When you wipe the car do it in the direction of the wind. Don't do the back and forth rub. After each pass dunk the sponge and give it a wring. the soil in the water falls to the bottom of the bucket.

When it comes time to dry use a waffle weave towel (no prickly ends). Spraying a quick detalier while the surface is wet is a good idea to lubricate the drying. You get the shine from buffing out the detail spray as a bonus. I don't do this because FK1 425 spray doesn't mix well with wet surfaces. I have to dry the car first and then treat it with 425. You should dry much the same as you wash, one long pass to minimize the amount of contact with the cloth and paint.

For the wheels you just have to use a little more elbow grease if you're using No Rinse and a wheel brush. But if you have five spokes you can wax the wheels and treat with 425. That keeps the brake dust from sticking. The dust usually slides off with one pass. I dont' know about mesh wheels, those are a pain.

If you search YouTube you'll see a bunch of people on there cleaning even Ferraris with NoRinse


p.s.
Woolite in 1 to 3 parts water mix to clean the carpeting. No need to spend money on something else. Just a terry cloth towel or microfiber.

...which raises the question once again, PL (or anybody who knows): Is FK still (again?) available online? (I'm being lazy---haven't checked the website lately :rolleyes: Thought you might just know off the top of your head!)

I ask because my supply of FK 425 is getting precariously low, AND...I've never tried that "dries like cement" paste wax you've touted on numous occasions.

How much does all this stuff cost? The more I read and the more people I talk to I'm learning that I should be washing this car myself.

Yes, I'm wondering the same thing. The website is still up but their phone rang and rang when I called a few minutes ago. No answer or recorded message.

It appears that the FK1 website was just a distributor for Finish Kare products.
Something must have happened to the business realtionship there.

The Finish Kare products are now available through this popular detailing supplier.

http://www.autogeek.net/finish-kare-car-care.html

hmm....

I'm guessing you can still order direct from Finish Kare but I haven't reached out yet.

Just got this email from detailcity.com which I used to order from, the economy seems to have put them out of biz but check out the bottom offer

"Detail City Customers,

We would like to offer our sincerest thanks for your business over the years.

We have decided to close our store in order to concentrate our efforts on building and growing the Detail City Forum at Detailcity.org. Please visit the forum for car care tips and advice.

We encourage you to shop at Autogeek.net for all of your car care products & auto accessories.

Warm regards,

Troy Armstrong

For a limited time, Autogeek.net would like to offer a welcome discount to all previous Detail City customers. Use coupon code WELCOME15 for a 15% discount* on your order. "


SCORE!!! :cheers:
That's free shipping on the next 425 refill.

It's really about time I get some of this stuff. It seems perfect for the light wash that fun cars need during the winter after a drive on a nice day. Only thing that concerns me about it for a daily driver, is that you're not rinsing the salt out of the underside of the car (for those who live in areas where the roads get salted).

^I make it a point to stop by one of those coin-operated car washes and use the presser washer to rinse out the wheel wells and underneath. And the canvas top of course.

step 1 - wash car

step 2 - rinse

step 3 drive car at 65mph for 20minutes

Problem solved

sorry fred but this is just bad advice. (no offense of course) it may work where the water is a little softer but the fact is with hard water you will get spots doing this :matchup:

I've never been able to get the "dry it by driving it" technique to work. What I'd KILL to have is one of those big soft water rinsing rigs a lot of dealers have.. then you can just let it dry and no water spots!

We're bumping this old thread because some of you here said you like to use Einszett. That brand has now been reborn as Nextzett, retaining their same products and lead chemist.

This week only, the entire Nextzett line of car care products is 10% off! This includes Perls Shampoo, Blitz Cleaner, Cockpit Premium, ColourTec Wheel Cleaner and the ultimate in rubber protection, Gummi Pflege! There are plenty of other products too, all designed to restore any surface on your vehicle to its original luster.

For 10% off, enter promo code NEXT10 at Step #4 during checkout where it says, "Have a Promo Code? Apply it now."

Shop Nextzett now or browse the rest of our car care products section!

Calcium replaced with Sodium
 

Our large water softeners at work do this, a salt tank is pumped into a resin bead tank ( Ion exchange ) that water runs through, the calcium is replaced with sodium from the salt resulting is soft water. then onto the Carbon process and then Reverse Osmosis...and we make water so pure it will not conduct electricity

Optimum no rinse works well, smells amazing, definitely will feel strange way to wash the car at first if you're used to using a traditional car wash shampoo and hose water. You will need lots of towels and launder them. Works best if the car isn't completely "filthy dirty." But I do find it hard to "really" clean the wheels well (including inside the barrels and behind the spokes) without hose water. Since on my area we have very decent quality watershed originating water (not pulled from an underground well), I use hose water most of the time and traditional shampoo. But I still use optimum no rinse for clay bar lubricant and for the occasional spot cleanings (works great on things like bird bombs, door jambs, etc.) It is possible to wash where there isn't a hose, using it too. It's not "sudsy" like traditional car wash shampoo is. But it pulls off all the dirt from the paint and onto the soaked microfiber cloths like a champ. Leaves the car feeling nice and smooth and smelling good, too. Done right, it also will not scratch the paint any more than hand washing gently with a sudsy shampoo solution would.

But to the op, I'd say regardless of your washing technique, do find a spot, and time of day to wash your car that's completely out of the direct sun. If you pull your car to that spot in the middle of the day, make sure the paint has had a good chance to cool down (paint should not feel hot or warm to the touch, or the water applied will evaporate off it more quickly). I have a big microfiber drying towel that sucks the water off really quickly.

Really bad water spots can be seriously etched into the paint, and there is nothing but a serious 2-stage polish that will get rid of them. Hopefully yours are more "sitting on the surface" and you will find a way they can be removed much press dramatically than that. Best of luck!