Drove the GTR today.
 

Well I took my car out today for a nice ride around the island. The car feels great with the 3.4 in it. I met up with my buddy who just got a GTR. He didn't care if I drove it. Off we went. In full race mode. Tranny, suspension and motor. The most amazing car I have ever driven. It is like playing a video game. It shifts like nothing else. 16" rotor all the way around is quite something also. Fastest 0-60 and the fastest 60-0. I tested it all. Launch control with traction control on is OK at best. We did not turn off the traction control because if you break something it voids your warranty. I got back in the 986 and I felt like I was driving a dodge caravan :( If you get the chance to drive a GTR do it.

But would you really say it was more fun than your Box? I guess it's very subjective...

I've never driven one but have heard many others say--yeah, the car can do amazing things but it's just not as engaging as a Boxster. It's too clinical---and as you said--like a video game. The engine/exhaust doesn't have that soulful sound and it has so much power you would rarely get to use much of the engine range anyway. And little real connection between driver and car.

I guess I should drive one, if anything, just for the experience.

Go test drive a MY09 Boxster S with PDK and come back to us with a comparison, that might be interesting. It won't have quite the 0-60 acceleration (but 4.1 seconds ain't slow!) but would love to hear your thoughts on how fast the shifts are relative to GTR. I drove PDK a month ago and I think it's impossible for any tranny to shift faster than this one.

JAAY,

:cheers: to the experience of driving one of the world's premier Supercar.
I'd definitely would love the chance to test drive the "Godzilla".
I'd take your word with the "Dodge Caravan" feel....LOL

Some HEAVY, and SCARY excerpts from Autocar/Wikipedia :eek:

" With a manufacturer claimed lap time of 7:26.7 on the base model's Dunlop tires[35] and previously 7:29 min on standard Japanese market tires, the GT-R is currently one of the fastest production cars to lap the Nürburgring circuit,[36][37] although Porsche accused Nissan of falsifying those claims in September 2008.[38][39] Porsche claims to have conducted their own test of the GT-R using no modifications and stock tires and achieved a best time of 7:54. Nissan officially disputed Porsche's claim in October 2008.[40][41] The German magazine sport auto achieved a time of 7:50 on the Nürburgring- with a car supplied to them by Nissan,[42] while independent testing by Drivers Republic of a GT-R and GT2 in stock form resulted in times of 7:55 for the GT-R and 7:49 for the GT2 respectively.[43] Both tests were conducted in partially damp conditions and by automotive journalists rather than professional track drivers.

Autocar released a video comparison of the GT-R with the Porsche 911 GT3 and BMW M3. Driven by test driver Chris Harris the GT-R was the fastest of the three.[44][45][46] Evo tested the GT-R alongside the 911 GT3 at the Bedford Autodrome circuit, the GT-R ran a 1:21.7 lap time compared to GT3's 1:22.6 time.[47] Car and Driver compared the GT-R on Reno-Fernley Raceway with the Porsche 911 Turbo and BMW M3, the GT-R's lap time of 1:26.7 made it the fastest on the track.[48] Road & Track was able to achieve quick lap times with the car on Buttonwillow Raceway, clocking in at 1:56.9 just over 5 seconds faster than the Chevrolet Corvette C6 Z06 and Porsche 911 Turbo.[49][50] On Willow Springs International Motorsports Park, Edmunds was able to achieve lap times of 1:25.09 compared to the Corvette ZR1's time of 1:23.87.[51] In an earlier Edmunds 6-way test which included the Audi R8 on both the Streets of Willow and an improvised mountain road, the GT-R was quickest.[52] On the Las Vegas Motor Speedway infield road course, Motor Trend were able to achieve lap times with the GT-R that were almost as fast as the Ferrari 599 GTB Fiorano and Porsche 911 GT2 and 3 seconds slower than a Chevrolet Corvette ZR1.[53] The GT-R currently holds a lap time of 1:19.7 around the Top Gear Test Track, equaling that of the Ferrari 430 Scuderia.[54] On Top Gear Australia's test track the GT-R posted a lap time of 1:07.06, putting it in second place 0.14 seconds behind the Porsche 997 GT2. Top Gear laps are conducted from a standing start. "

For me, fast lap times are about as meaningful as what Paris Hilton has to say.

If I raced the car and had a reputation or career that depended on it, yes. But at the foothills of the Rocky Mountains, with miles of twisty, rising and falling roads calling and no stopwatch running, I want a car that I can enjoy near the speed limit, not at 3x the limit. A chassis and steering that are responsive and communicative, but limits that aren't herculean lead to a more rewarding and entertaining drive to me. If the car doesn't "wake up" or show much personality until 100mph, and I don't live at the race track, I probably wouldn't enjoy it.

The video game comment really turns me off. If you've got the car doing all the work and you just sit there and turn the wheel, I'm not interested. By the way, I'm not saying the Boxster is the end-all for me either. I've got a 1st gen Rx-7 that has the Boxster easily beat at driving entertainment (as do the old 911s). What I am saying is that the enthusiast community, including the magazines, put way too much emphasis on a car's track prowess, where real world driving is what most of us do.

I have driven every p car except for a cgt. My friend kinda runs a porsche dealership :). As for the nissan having no soul. It is just a different thing. You are very connected to the car in ways a boxster could never be. Anything you want the car to do it does. As for not being able to use all the power..... LOL I used it all over the place. The car only make something like 420-470 to the ground but it is tuned amazingly and when you shift it on point. The twin clutch tranny is amazing when you upshift or downshift. The harder you drive it in race mode the better it reacts to any little bit of input you give it. I am taking it out tomorrow again I will try and get some video from in the car if anything I will get some good shots of it. We are going to a meet out in sag harbor if you are local. Arriving there around 915 am.

But is it the electronics that allow the car to do whatever you want it to do? I think that's the part that would take the fun out of it for me. But as I said, it's all subjective and to each his own. I will test drive one soon to see.

I don't want a CAR to do everything I want it to do.

I need the DRIVER to make the car do what I want it to do.

No need to learn how to drive fast if the computer takes care of it for you I guess ;)

Probably not for me. I need the back end to pass me by every now and then to remind me I'm the one controlling the car and need to polish my skills, not the other way around I guess...

I wonder how Nissan decides whether you are "worthy" to test drive one?

I can just imagine the number of "kids" that must walk in there to give it a shot and get turned away.

Can't hurt to try I suppose.....tho I never see them out in the lot--they're always tucked in the showroom. And would be willing to bet they wouldn't let me drive one alone!!

Sounds just like the Porsche PDK to me, or the Nissan GTR DCT :D ; which are both types/variations of the twin-clutch gearbox, double clutch transmission.

Welcome to the New Era of Automobile Engineering.....

How do you define connected? What's the oldest Porsche you've driven?

That's another turn off, you couldn't get a clutch if you want it. What fun is letting the car shift for you? I've driven the F1 transmission in the Maser GT, maybe good for Michael Schumacker, but LAME to me.

Nah, cars are getting heavier, less involving and doing everything for you. The Elise and Miata are the only real sports cars left for sale in the US.

Whether or not the computers are driving or not P cars only handle as good as they do because of r&d or technology. As for the oldest p car I have driven is irrelevant. New technology is great and the gtr is a amazing car.

How amazing will it be in ~10 years when electrical contacts start to corrode and things start to fail?

PASM is much better than I ever imagined, but when I need to replace a strut coil-overs are going on. No point in $$$$$$ per strut for what will most likely will be a hard to find and expensive part.

I think modern cars will start to head down the path of the 928 as time goes on. Electrical gremlins will drop the desirability of an otherwise awesome car.

Or they could be like us and wonder when ims will fail

I would certainly like to get one of the road. I'm going to ask Nissan for a test drive.

From what I hear from my friend who sells them is that it is a 2k deposit and a credit check and maybe they'll take you out in one. If you can do it though, drive it. :cheers:

There is a really informative article this month in Australian Unique Cars regarding the running costs of a Skyline R35 GT-R. The writer owns a Skyline & says its the supercar bargain to buy, but the maintenance costs are up there with the exotica. His car is for the road, but also used for track days.
He states that a few cars have broken their transmissions using the "launch" control which has now been modified with a softer control, but what is expensive is the servicing schedule for the GR6 transmission - the factory fluid costs (quoted all in $US) $80 per litre - and the transmission takes 10 litres. Thats $800 per oil change. Nissan Techs can read the peak gearbox oil temps and if the temps have reached 130 deg C, (about 3 laps of a track) you are up for an oil change. Regardless, Nissan recommend the gearbox oil be changed @ 3000km intervals !!!!
Diff fluid is more expensive @ $160 per litre x 3 litres - $480.
Brake rotors and pads are obtainable cheaper ex USA from AP Racing - rotors costing $950 EACH plus fitting and a set of Endless or Pagid pads will set you back $1000 - which is cheaper than OEM.
But tyres are the killer costs which in Oz costs $750 EACH for the Dunlop RSST run-flats - which don't last long, especially the fronts.
Currently, Nissan Australia specialised techs trained in GT-R's are charging $150 / hr for servicing.
I don't know how these costs equate to running say a Porsche GT3, but as with many things in life, buying something expensive is somewhat easier than maintaining it.
So. though the GT-R may make a Boxster (or a 997) feel like a donkey, you had better put some $$$ away for routine maintenance.......

WOW :barf:

thanks Steve. That was interesting. Had I not read something like that my initial thought would have been that a Nissan is a Nissan w.r.t maintenance/reliability and the advantage of spending $70k on a Nissan vs a Porsche is that the maintenance/parts would be cheaper and less likely things would break.

Use of launch control = warranty void!! :eek:

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m...y/warranty.jpg

I drove a friend's GT3 and that messed me up. Having to get back into my 2.5 boxster was depressing.

I shall not drive a GTR, even if someone hands me the keys and begs me to drive it.

The new launch control reflash is on the car and it is warranty safe as long as you keep traction control on. It launches at 2400ish and the old one was over 4k. The new is very tame. I got some photos of it today while I was out in it for a bit. I'll post them when I
home.

The one I saw had dealer plates on it but I've never gotten around to see if I could wrangle a test drive from them. The windshield already had a rock chip / full length crack in it, so it may have been getting some use. Figured if I show up in an expensive car they may be more inclined to let me drive their GT-R. But I want something more than a soul less warmed over Chevy Colbalt with the gee-whiz technology of an F-22. At some point won't that get old? Even though I may be the pilot of a GT-R, I want to be more than just along for the ride. And how many GT-R owners go to the door to their garage and sneak a peek at the sexy lines of their car? We've all done that and we're not drooling over PSM.

Maybe I'll swing by the dealer and see if they still have it and will let me drive it. See what all the fuss is about.

I saw this GTR at an autocross about a month ago. I wasn't sure what to expect since the car is rather big and definately not a lightweight, but the driver did well with it and posted very respectable times. He was a nice fella and just came by and started talking to me and offered me a ride along, but we were in the same heat so I never got a chance. There is so much hype and controversy surrounding the car it definately draws a crowd especially from the younger crowd. I wouldn't mind riding in one....let alone driving it.

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m...y/P6110002.jpg
http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m...y/P6110003.jpg
http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m...y/P6110004.jpg

Just a pic of the one I get to play with.

http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s...S/DSC_0688.jpg

Everything I have read about the GTR is very impressive. Someday, maybe someday! :D

a very limited audience given the styling for a non-sports car type. I don't think this car is going to hold up well on the second hand market which means its going to be an insane bargain at some point.
I'll wait for the R8 to come down some more. :D

I do love the r8 now that it will come with some big power.

the launch control is not made for hard acceleration of the line. read it somewhere in a magazine. thats why trannys were breaking all the time. and thats why now for 2010 it lowered the rpms it revs to so the tranny lasts longer. i think. been a long weekend of drinking.

Yeah I've been reading about the tranny failures as well. It seems to be the achilles heel of the GTR and Nissan is not helping owners that are having these issues because they took it to a track or they used launch control..ect ect. If this car is built for the track like Nissan says it is, then they should stand behind their product.

I may eat these words...but I'd be willing to bet we won't hear of such from Porsche's PDK Launch Control---even when it comes out for the turbo! Or at least, if it does happen, they will take care of customers. They will have done substantial worst case testing, then stripped all the test cars apart to find out where the weak points are, re-engineer them, then re-test. Afterall, Porsche invented this technology what...20 years ago? and all we've had is tiptronic since then for non-clutch folks. You can bet they haven't been sitting idle all this time.

They designed the PDK even in the S trim of both models to be able to do 40+ back to back "launches" via launch control with no ill efffects. That's pretty severe; albeit, with a bit less horsepower.

If they can engineer similar specifications for the Turbo/GT2/GT3 PDK, the acceleration times will put the GTR to shame (tho the price will too unfortunately).

Given the Boxster S is now returning 0-60 times in the 4.1-4.3 sec regime, the turbo 911 (given it has AWD) will be a sub 3-second car! :barf:

Exactly!!! ....Porsche's legendary level of commitment to "customer service" for the recurrent RMS, and IMS issues we all face:confused:

.....(All these years)it seems like Porsche is handing over the the R&D of these well documented issues to 3rd party engineers like Mr. Raby, and his crew :D

The very reason why another auto maker (Lexus) always tops customer satisfaction surveys--commitment to quality,and customer service.

That is where I believe that youre wrong Spine... overall satisfaction includes everything and Porsche tops all the other brands.
:D
http://www.motorauthority.com/new-study-finds-porsche-the-most-recommended-brand.html

There Really is No Substitute.

True, that is why im an avid Porschephile regardless of the accompanying gremlins.

It's just interesting to note that even though on that May 09 MotorAuthority/ AutoPacific "Most Recommended cars" list which Porsche topped...Lexus/Toyota dominated the list with 8 cars. :) It is a documented fact that Porsche's customer base (that's us) has always been the most loyal amongst any other car manufacturer... :cheers:

I just wish that Porsche is MORE proactive with the well known RMS/IMS issues it's loyal customer base are experiencing.

http://www.autoblog.com/2009/06/22/lexus-leads-hyundai-improves-while-infiniti-drops-in-j-d-powe/

I think I have their business plan figured out, and why they do little for the IMS RMS issues....

1. It allows the private sector to prosper.

2. It frees up men and materials for newer, better innovations.

3. If you think of Porsches in a different term, lets say for easy comparison Marijuana ( I am not promoting the useage or sale of drugs, its for comparative reasons alone). Porsche sells the best kind of weed, but as with the best you have to pay for it. Even if you get some soso or not so good things in your stuff from Porsche.. its still the best and youre addicted. They know you will keep coming back for more no matter the cost or problems.

Ironically, Ive never done drugs before.... other than prescription. :D :cheers:

At least Im addicted to the best... and not Mustangs like my mother (shes had 14 of them so far :eek: )

Food for thought, what if Porsche outsourced the engine to say Honda/Toyota and leave the rest to internal R&D? Lotus obviously learned their lesson....

It will be interesting to see what happens for the 2011 Boxster which will have a 4 cylinder turbo. Will they really remove two cylinders from the current motor (it was engineered for such) and build a whole new motor? Or take the already brilliant powerplants from Volkswagen?

I guess the question is, IMS/RMS issues aside, do Porsche's engines have better performance than ones Honda or Toyota builds? hp/L, flexibility, weight, heat transfer, fuel economy etc... What if Honda designed a 3.4L boxer engine? how would it compare? Or would Porsche lose their "pedigree" if they did that?

I read an article recently that said there has never been a single warranty claim for a Honda VTEC engine--not one failure. Amazing. Why not outsource a truly bulletproof motor and keep the rest all Porsche. I wonder how it would influence your decision as a consumer? I certainly would have more piece of mind---but it would absolutely, positively have to make the same glorious noise!!!

So long as it made that amazing growl, I'd be completely fine with it. I don't want my Boxster sounding all screechy like an S2000 (which is actually the 2nd biggest reason why I didn't get the Honda over the Box).

Can you honestly see the Porsche Board allowing the company to go to a Japanese manufacturer for its next generation engine???? C'mon, who are you kidding.
Porsche believe they are THE premium car manufacturer bar non, probably vying with Ferrari as the dogs nuts in performance cars. Pride would not allow this to happen.

I know I know....but they can keep Porsche under the lid of their flagship--the 911. I just want the Honda one in a Boxster :)

I hate this all.. LOL I would love a s2k motor in my boxster. My brother has one that just laid down 421 at the wheels and it sounds great. They don't have to sound like a honda. Get real stainless stuff and you are driving a sweet sounding car. As for the rest of the car. Blah.. I hate it. :)

I see no reason you can't bolt a honda motor and transmission into a boxster given the right amount of money and time.

Some guy wants to shoehorn a Corvette motor in his and says he's doing it, so a Honda motor should be even easier since it's probably 2/3 of the size.

I doubt Porsche will ever use a Japanese motor in their cars. They most certainly would keep the cash inside the country and put a VW or Audi motor in one though if it made financial sense to do so.

Just get ready for the onslaught of criticism from the Porsche purists who will say Porsche has sold out and the Boxster with a VW or Audi TT four banger in it is not really a Porsche any longer.

Actually, the water-cooled boys are still singing a sad tune about the new breed of Pcars and they'll just make the non-Porsche power plant model their second verse.

^ I'll take the S2000 gear box and you take the engine.

I wish my Boxster came with a hybrid diesel engine....

You're right about that. I have a MY08 S2000. The gearbox really is perfect. I'm spoiled forever...