NSX to Boxster:
 

Hi,

I currently use a 1991 NSX as my daily driver and a Formula Mazda as my track car. Sometime next year I would like to sell both and just have 1 car that performs double duty. I love the NSX and would probably get a newer one if it wasn’t so expensive to make them quality track cars. Currently I feel the best blending of a street and track car is probably the Boxster S provided I’m not willing to spend over $50K.

I don’t think I’m interested in a 2000-2002 because they don’t have a glass rear window. They also are slower than my NSX and I don’t want to take a step back in performance. The 2003/2004 is OK but once again there is the performance issue. By next year the 2005’s should drop below $40K and within my budget. At 280 hp, they would be faster than my 270 hp NSX (if only they had the same reliability). Of course, if reliability was #1 I would buy an S2000. However, I’m 47 years old and that’s a little too old to be driving around in an S2000. I also like the Boxster much more. I’m a big mid-engine fan. I went from a Pantera to the NSX. I guess a Boxster is my next step up the ladder because I can’t yet afford a Ford GT…..

Question 1:
I’m going to buy a used car, so should I make sure it has a minimum amount of mileage so that I can hopefully avoid the motor problem that seems to happen with a few cars? It seems that most motor problems happen before 30k miles.

Question 2:
Is there a list of the “best” options that I should be looking for when buying the car?

Question 3:
Is this the best website for 2005 cars? I notice that it’s says it’s a 2000-2004 Boxster site.

Question 4:
Should I stay away from the 2005s because they are the 1st year of a new model?

Question 5:
What is the warranty on a 2005? Are there extended warranties that most buy? Given I plan to track the car; I only want a car with a few months on the warranty. Just enough to make sure that I can get something fixed that I find shortly after the purchase. I’m sure that tracking the car will void the warranty once they look at the on-board computer.

Question 6:
Where can I find the maintenance requirements? I’ve read on this site that the 2005s are every 20K miles. The earlier cars were every 15K.


Thanks for all your help.

CFRA,

Welcome to the forum.

Question #4:
Don’t worry about the info focusing on 2000-2004. There are lots of knowledgeable people on this site with 987s who can help answer your questions.

Question #5:
I haven’t heard too much complaining about the ’05 model year specifically. That is my daily driver and it has been nothing but a joy to drive over the past 27k miles. There might be some problems unique to this M/Y but I haven’t heard any horror stories unique to this particular year.

Question #6:
I can’t speak for the S, but the base 987 for ’05 does have 20k maintenance intervals listed in the owner’s manual.

I am sure others will chime in very soon to help you as well. Have you spent much time driving the Boxster yet? It would be great if you could post some details about your experiences across the Pantera, the NSX and the Box – would like to read about them.

I figure you'll enjoy the Boxster...


but a 280hp Boxster isn't necessarily going to be faster than your 270hp NSX...

So.. Ditching the NSX and the Mazda racecar and hoping ONE car can fill both needs? won't happen.

The Mazda has jadded you towards extremely light weight and incredible handling. The boxster, NSX etc are fantastic for street cars but they are not racecars. You will find that out on your first aggressive track day. Too much body lean. Too much brake dive. Limited alignment settings that destroy the outside edges of tires. SO.. now your 1 car will slip down the track slope. Aftermarket springs and shocks (unless you get PASM). Then camber plates and/or 997 cup lower control arms. Now you've thrown another $4-6k just to get the handling "right" for your car.

You mention concern about warrantly and voiding it when you track it. So, i say, get a plastic windowed "S". Why? less money. Plus, you can then worry about paying for explicit DE/Track insurance (figure severl K/year plus a 5-10K deductible) so why wad up a new, more expensive car to begin with?

I've seen 250hp Boxster S's keep right up with, or lead, 993's, 996's (even GT-3s) etc. After all, it depends more on the driver in many cases, not the car.

Actually, it should be noticably faster in a straight line than the old NSX. Even the 03//04 boxster S should have no problem showing the old NSX the tail lights. The old 270 hp NSX might have been fairly quick back in 91, but not by todays standards.

http://www.albeedigital.com/supercoupe/articles/0-60times.html

Well atleast your not asking us to buy a 86 Feiro for 30k :)

lol :D

I'm thinking that the NSX would make a better, or at least as good of a dual-purpose car as the Boxster. Are you looking to get a newer car?

I have a 2005 and haven't had any issues, and there aren't any big known issues. Some minor updates here and there.

I think the Boxster S makes a reasonable good track car. Like any other car there are a number of upgrades that can be made to improve performance but it's a solid platform with great balance.

The maintenance intervals are 20K but if you track the car you would obviously need to maintenance the car more. The oil changes, brake pad changes etc.. are very easy to do so you could consider doing some maintenance yourself.

I have not heard that tracking the car voids the warranty. My dealership preps cars for track days etc.. and have never questioned the warranty. Porsche makes these cars for the track. Now if you go into the red frequently, that's a different story.

Just a thought, but have you considered the Cayman S. That would get you up to 295 HP with a better structure (solid roof). There also seems to be pretty good deals on Caymans lately. The Cayman owners seem to be more serious with track use than Boxsters (in general). There is a good site if you want more information www.caymanclub.net

Regarding options, that can be personal preference but the general consensus seems to be windstop, Bose upgrade, heated seats, sport steering wheel, and xenon headlights. I'm not convinced the PSM or Chrono are worth the investment, but thats probably a whole different topic.

If the Boxster isn't what your heart is set on 100% then don't buy it, save for what you want.

A DeTomaso Pantera? You didn't sell it, right? It's still sitting in your barn, and you'll sell it to me for a reasonable price, yes? :dance:

Mmmm... a nice built 351 Cleveland with snake headers. A wicked sound. :cool:

If you want the best bang for your $50,000 you can currently buy a brand new 2007 400 HP Corvette. The 2008's go into production this June for delivery in late July. The 2008 has 436 HP and an upgraded interior so the dealers are selling the '07 Vette's for about $6,500 to $7,500 below MSRP. Vert's $7,500 below MSRP. I'm buying an '08 this fall myself. Keeping my Boxster S of course because it is a great car. It's just I've always wanted a Vette since I was about 10 years old.

My Pantera experience is limited. In the early 80s I owned and restored a 1968 Shelby GT500 but after a year of driving the car I just didn’t like the way it handled with that big 428 lump up front. I sold it for around $12,000. If I had it now I could trade it for a Ford GT! I don’t regret selling the car because I never liked driving it but I wish I could sell it once more…

The Pantera replaced the Shelby. I loved the feel of a mid-engine car. It was like nothing else that I had ever driven. It also had a very powerful motor that had no problems walking away from a Ferrari 328. If you didn’t like the stock HP, you could add as much as you wanted. It wasn’t a sin to modify a Pantera unlike other exotics. I paid around $25,000 for the Pantera. I drove the car less than a year before blowing the motor. I then decided that I needed to do a ground up rebuild on the car and put in better than new condition. That was a 10 year journey that didn’t end before my marriage did. She got the car (not running yet but with a $10,000 paint job). She sold it last year after holding onto it for another 10 years.

I bought the NSX 8 years ago to replace the Pantera. My friend was racing his Pantera at Sears Point and a guy with an NSX had pitted next to him. We got to talking and he let me take his NSX on a 20 minute drive in the area. I fell in love. It didn’t have the torque of the Pantera but it did everything else better! I had to have one! I bought a 1991 for $27,000 which was low book value back then. They still cost about $27,000 with around 60K miles.

I loved the car. It was exotic. It never broke down (OK, In the last 90K miles I’ve replaced the clutch, all hoses, the starter and a CV). Please note those are the replacements from miles 60K to 150K! It’s a Honda and very reliable. You also didn’t pass yourself on the street every month. I don’t like to see others driving my car. I guess I feel the same way a girl does when she shows up to a party with the same dress as another guest. I give extra points for limited production and with less than 10,000 units in the US, it’s one of the most limited production cars.

Let me say that I’ve driven almost all mid-enjoin cars:

Carrera GT – Wonderful but the clutch sucks when leaving from a standing start.

Lamborghini Mircalogo (sp) - The first Lamborghini that I’ve driven that didn’t have a kit car feel. You feel like a rock star on the street

Lamborghini Diablo Spyder - Beautiful car, heavy clutch, needs some refinement.

Ferrari 430 Challenge – The best breaks that I’ve ever used! I drove this car around Buttonwillow raceway and I’ve never experienced brakes like that before. The owner stated that each break job was $20,000.

Ferrari 360 – Very nice car. I drove it at Laguna Seca. It had paddle shifts set to sport mode and shifted fast and hard. Too hard for the street. However, I never got to try the street setting. The Ferrari sound can only be beaten by the Carrera GT. This is my favorite car for under $125K.

Ferrari 355 - I drove 3 cars back to back at Thunderhill Raceway. A Porsche 911 Turbo S., a Viper GTS and the 355. The 355 was the sexiest but not as well made as the other 2. The 911 did everything right. It was a very fast daily driver. The GTS felt a lot smaller once on the track. The 355 had that crappy gated shifter that Ferrari owners think is so great. You’ll know if something is great when Japan copies it. The throttle cable also seemed to hang somewhat through its travel. In short, it was the least impressive of the 3 but the one I would pick first for a weekend drive….

I also drive a paddle shift 355 on the street. It seemed to work fine. In street mode it shifted a little hard but It’s a cool car but I would probably take the 2008 Viper GTS if I was spending around $90K on a car. The 355 is starting to get dated for that kind of money and the repair costs are off the scale.

Let me first apologize for what I’m about to say. It’s just a personal opinion and means nothing. I’ve never liked 911s and still don’t. The motors in the wrong place and they look like modified Volkswagen bugs. I’ve driven them on both the street and track and never wanted to own one. They do nothing for me on an emotional level. I will say that many of the best driver’s I’ve met drive 911s.

I’ve always liked the looks of the Boxster. I’ve only had a few laps around Laguna Seca in one of the cars but it felt really nice. It would be perfect if Porsche would allow it to have the 911 motor. I have been concerned about their reliability. I’m very involved in racing and the two least reliable cars that I’ve ever seen are Corvettes and Boxsters. We have two Corvettes that I race with. The first one (1998 Corvette) lost two motors, both replaced under warranty. It lost a 3rd motor last year and he’s decided to sell. Too old to try and get warranty coverage. Our 2002 Z06 lost his first motor after 3 years of racing. They would not warranty the failure. We have another Z06 that just started racing this season. He has yet to lose a motor after 4 years of track duty. We had a guy working for his license in a Cayman. He sold it and bought an Exige. Someone said his car was starting to smoke. This is 2nd hand info so please take it with a grain of salt. I’ve yet to speak with him personally on the subject.

We have two Boxsters that race with us (1998 and 2001 S). The 1998 lost two motors under warranty as well. The 2001 only lost one. They are still racing on their replacement motors. They have told me it’s a Porsche build problem and had nothing to do with their track activities.

I love the NSX. It’s my favorite street car for any amount of money that I can afford. It’ good looks (eye of the beholder), exclusivity, reliability and is arguably the best handling mid-engine car for the money or any money. However, it’s not a great track car. The breaks are weak and it’s almost impossible to put in roll protection and use the car on the street. It’s because I want a dual purpose car that I’m leaving the NSXs behind.

That’s why I’m considering the Boxster. A beautiful well balanced car that can be a blast to drive on the track. Please note that I say this with a $40K limit on my purchase. If I was willing to go to $50K, I would probably by a 1997 Viper GTS and a Miata. Save the Viper for the track and weekends and drive the Miata to work. The Viper isn’t a good daily driver but its cool factor is off the scale and would easily handle any Boxster on the track. If I was willing to spend $60K, I would get a 2006 Corvette Z06. It can be used as a daily driver and fears noting on the track. Not the cool factor of the Viper but respected by those into performance.

People chose cars for their own personal reasons. My reasons probably don’t align with anyone else. We see lots of cars at the track and everyone wants something different. There are no best cars only best cars for an individual. What I’ve written is just opinion and others experiences may be different but are just as valid (or worthless) as mine.

As a side note: Our 1998 Boxster driver is winning his class for the 2nd year. He is killing the competition. Our 01 S driver is in 2nd place to a 911. Classes are based on power to weight and tire selection.

The difference would be small. Given that I’m a gust in the Boxster’s house, I will give the win to the Boxster.

You make some very good points..... I'm just not sure the fun vs. cost of the FM will continue. It's costs about $500 evertime I hit the start button...

While I haven't enjoyed the use of a dedicated race car, I had a 911 that was 1) Bulletproof and 2) was well modified for track duty.

I sold my 911 because I wanted a "street" Porsche I could track on occasion. I did that this past weekend and one (among several) things came to mind.

A stock boxster needs a complete new suspension to be truly enjoyable on the track. It wasn't a bad car, but as I mentioned before, the lean, dive, squat etc under real track conditions was much worse than I anticipated.

Reliability. I have been a bit nervous since I bought the car about MAF, O2s, RMS's etc. As a street car i wouldn't worry about it. After day 1 at the track I enjoyed a Check Engine Light occurance which points to a camshaft problem.

Did I mention my 911 was bulletproof? Throttle it all day long, take a 4-6 hr trip home and never a hiccup. Same was true with my 914. The aircooled motors, with no computer controls, are simnplicity and reliability in one fell swoop.

You mentioned you dont like 911s and I can understand the aesthetic reasons. As you mentioned though, folks who really drive 911s well can drive ANY car well, they just choose to run a 911 :)


All that mentioned, a friend of mine bought a Boxster S in 2001. Since folks wern't really "racing" them, he and the shop came up with some wicked, custom suspension stuff. And WOW was that car quick. Not sure I would say "fun" or "entertaining" but just fiercely quick and well composed. My guess is that it takes about $5k to make them handle in a manner you would appreciate.

If the age of the car isn't a consideration, have you considered a 3rd gen Rx-7? Their suspensions are reasonably adjustable stock and can go like stink out of the box. With some cooling and breathing improvements, they can make a great deal of power. Plus you don't have to worry about reliability because you know the eninge is a time bomb and the rotary is going to need a rebuild every now and then.

If I do the $5K in mods will it still be a fun daily driver or have I passed that point?

With all due respect, the data you have linked to states that the best ¼ mile time for a 3.0 NSX (1991 – 1996) is a 13.6. The one time listed for the Boxster S is a 13.8. Therefore I don’t know how you come to the conclusion that a 2000 – 2004 S will show it’s tail lights to the “old” NSX.

The majority of times I see quoted for the NSX in other publications is a 13.7. However, your data for the 3.0 NSX with the fastest time is the 1996 which is odd because it’s 100 lbs heaver than the 1991 – 1994 with the same HP. I guess you read the 14+ for the 1991. That’s a bad number. I’ve drag raced my car and got a 13.7 in stock condition.

The 1997 - 2005 (3.2) NSX is quoted at 13.3 which is what I’ve seen quoted quite a bit.

It would be a close run but I have no fear of winning by a car length. Torque and gearing also helps. I also believe the NSX has a higher top speed.

Please note that I rated the 2005 S a little faster and I still rate the 2000-2004 S a little slower. I’m sorry if you feel that I insulted your car. There are a lot of cars for less money faster than the Boxster and NSX. It’s not an issue. If I wanted performance for the $ I would be driving a Corvette.

It’s one of those things where one might say that it comes down to drivers. I feel the NSX would be a little faster. I’ve been racing for 13 years, so perhaps I should say that I driving my NSX would beat you driving a pre 2005 Boxster S in stock condition.

The biggest challenge to using the NSX on the track is roll protection. I do wheel to wheel racing. Fortunately it’s non-contact (usually) so I don’t need a full cage, only 4 point roll protection. The Boxster only requires the addition of the bar extender to be legal. The NSX requires the addition of the 4 points which makes it dangerous to drive on the street because the bar is so close to your head. I don’t want to tow to the track anymore so the bar requirement all but eliminates the NSX. The Boxster has the advantage of having better brakes and a little lighter which should mean a little more fun.

I still would prefer a 1997 – 2005 NSX for the street but as a combination “serious” track car and street car, I feel the Boxster is a better choice. If I was only looking for a track sports car, the Elise is nice but a poor dual purpose car. The S2000 is a faster track car than the Boxster once you add a good set of tires and rims, but not anywhere near as nice on the street. I think the big advantage of the S2000 is you can get a lot wider tires under the car and go faster through the corners

My plan is to set aside $10K every year until I'm 60. At that point I'll have enough to buy a Ford GT assuming they reamin around $150K.

There is only $30K in the fund at this point. It's 12 more years until I'm 60 and a lot of bad things can happen between now and then. Besides, I need a solution between now and then. Can't always get what we want, when we want it. I know what I want based on what I can afford.

I only plan on buying one more car between now and 60. So far the Boxster is winning...

OK. In general I hate Corvettes. I do recognize that Corvettes are the best performance for the money in the world. Why do I hate Corvettes? Remember when I said that the average 911 were the best drivers that I know of? Well the average Corvette driver is the worst! It’s an old mans profiling car (yes I’m almost old). It’s not the cost of the Corvette that hurts; it’s all the gold chains that one must buy before you can be seen driving a Corvette.

Why do I feel this way? Because most Corvettes are automatics! That says something about your average Corvette owner and how they feel about driving. More evidence is that even though there are more than 100,000 Corvettes in California they can’t even host their own track day because so few want to drive them on a track. I’m talking road racing not drag racing. It doesn’t take much driving talent to drag race a street car unless you’re under 18.

Please note I say average and most. I know some excellent Corvette drivers but they are not the norm…

I also think Corvette C4 and C5 styling was poor. If you don’t like the looks of a car, it’s hard to overcome some of it other problems. The C4 had some Euro vibe going. The C5 was their attempt to capitalize on the Japanese car craze of the 90s. They tried to blend some NSX and RX7 styling cues into the car and it didn’t work.

Now I must admit with the C6 they have went with a new look that works. Not as attractive as the Boxster but a nice design. I wouldn’t be ashamed to be seen next to a C6.

You are correct that I could buy a new C6 for around $40,000 and it would ******************** slap both an NSX and any Boxster or Cayman. However, to drive a base Corvette is to admit that I have joined the unwashed masses of Corvette ownership. I can’t bring myself to go there. I would rather loose to a Corvette than drive one. I do have some values.

However, the C6 Z06 is a different story. It only comes in manual so that eliminates some of the performance pretenders. It fears no “stock” car on the track which includes cars costing $100K +. That’s a kind of attitude I could live with. It’s a little more inline with my driving philosophy. It’s still a Corvette but I can still dismiss the base Corvette owners while driving a Z06. I would still rather drive a Boxster on the street but would give that up to have 505 hp at the track.

Unfortunately, I don’t want to spend over $50K on a car purchase. It would interfere with the eventual Ford GT purchase. It will also hurt a lot worse to stuff a $60K car into a wall than it does a $40K car. You can now start to find some Z06s under $60K. If they go below $50K in the next 24 months, I may just buy one. I’m waiting for all the hype to subside. Everyone still thinks that they are worth big bucks even though they have already made about 15,000 of the cars.

The new 600hp Viper will help draw some attention from the Z06. I would guess that by the time the 2009 models arrive you’ll see them discounted just like any other car. This will impact the after market and bring prices into line with what they normally would be on a used Corvette. Some say that in 2009 they will be announcing a 700hp Corvette for the 2010 model year….

Looks like this is being discussed over at the C&D site as well.
http://forums.caranddriver.com/auto/board/message?board.id=18&thread.id=44008&view=by_date_a scending&page=1

I still recommend that you save your a bit more money and jump to a Cayman S, which is a much better track car with the fixed roof. Some minor upgrades to the exhaust/headers and suspension will have you in very good shape. 300+ HP with lots of balance.

I was at a DE event last month and it was obvious the Caymans were performing very well at the track, even with novice drivers.

You can get a low mileage Cayman S around $50K, would think they will start dropping into the 40's soon.

http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.jsp?car_id=213229822&dealer_id=58999983&car_ye ar=2006&num_records=25&search_type=both&make=POR&k eywordsfyc=&distance=0&transmission=&model=CAYMAN& make2=&address=55337&default_sort=priceDESC&certif ied=&advanced=&max_mileage=&max_price=&sort_type=p riceDESC&min_price=&first_record=226&body_code=0&e nd_year=2008&color=&keywordsrep=&start_year=1981&d rive=&pager.offset=225&engine=&style_flag=1&doors= &fuel=&cardist=1021

The last guy in that C/D thread said his buddy has a 900hp+ Box. Now that I'd like to see. :rolleyes:

Excellent thinking - enjoy life while you can. We don't know what is going to happen tomorrow.

Question 1:
Motor problems are difficult to pinpoint with anecdotal data. Basically, there's in-warranty and out-of-warranty. If your engine grenades and you're in the former, you're fine...else, not so much.

Question 2:
If you're concerned with performance the two 987 options that would most impact performance, except for ceramic brakes, would be PASM (adjustable suspension) and Sports Chrono (more responsive accelerator, reduced stability management intervention).

Question 3:
In terms of knowledgable contributors on the 987, I'd rank the Boxster forums as follows:

986forum
Rennteam
PPBB
Rennlist
Boxa.net

Question 4:
I've owned a 2005 base and a 2006 S, neither was more reliable (both excellent) over 40K combined miles of ownership.

Question 5:
4yrs/50K. Your options as a resident of California for extended warranties may be limited. Some dealers offer extended warranties at point of purchase OR you may be eligible if you purchased the car second hand at a Porsche dealer. Tracking the car shouldn't void the warranty, but the 987 black-box reflects the improved sophistication across the industry and transmission abuse is recorded and may potentially impact your warranty.

Question 6:
Every 20K, minor/major/minor, like most cars these days. Tires can be an expensive regular upkeep item, but coming from an NSX you'll know this already. Some people feel that they know more about maintaining their Boxster than Porsche and Mobile and thus will change their oil more frequently to achieve self-satisfaction, peace of mind, and spend money unnecessarily.

THANKS! THANKS! THANKS! Great info...

As stated previously, I know a guy who is working on his race license with us and he recently switched from Cayman to an Exige. I sent him an email asking why. His response is below:

"The Cayman is a great car, but Porsche handicapped it a lot so it will not beat up the carerras. I had a lot of pwr steering issues, so are many other track driven caymans. the pulley runs too fast (driven by crankshaft) making the pwr str pump work too hard at high rpm, so pump and other pwr str parts die. i had three pumps and 2 str racks replaced in 13 months, 5000 track miles. to get to the parts, the roll bar has to come out. to get the bar out, i have to drop the rear suspension. it was too time consuming or i am just lazy. i think eventually porsche will get it right. plus i got a very good offer to buy my car so, that was my chance. exige drives just like the cayman except less torque and less weight. it's a more fun car on track, but Cayman was better on street."


I have personally heard a lot about Boxsters with power steering issues on the track. However, reading this forum has taught me that there is an under drive pulley fix.

I couldn't have said it better myself. I am right there with you Bud. You clearly have thought about this for a long time and I agree with your conclusions. Go pick out a nice Boxter and with a little suspension tuning you will be reeling in those C5's and C6's in all the tight stuff... where it matters. The Vettes will still own the big tracks and ovals but who cares. You will always have the cooler ride. :D And your values will still be intact.

A few days ago I was having some work done at my local garage. A corvette owner came in and asked for a seven-hundred-ten. We all looked at each other and another customer asked, "What is a seven-hundred-ten?" He replied, "You know, the little piece in the middle of the engine, I have lost it and need a new one.." He replied that he did not know exactly what it was, but this piece had always been there. The mechanic gave him a piece of paper and a pen and asked him to draw what the piece looked like. He drew a circle and in the middle of it wrote 710. He then took her over to another car which had its hood up and asked "is there a 710 on this car?" He pointed and said, "Of course, its right there."

If you're not sure what a 710 is or where it is located check out the link below:


http://www.hotautoweb.com/cogifs/710.jpg

HAHAHHAHAHA! :D Thats hilarious