DeSnorkling or Cold Ram Air Induction
 

As far as I know desnorkling or a Cold Ram Air mod will not show any performance gain on a Dyno. The gains will only be noticed at highway speeds. Not much air will be forced through the air-intake side vent when the car is sitting on the Dyno.

:cheers:

Hi,

If he didn't alter his methodology, that's not surprising. His original description left enough error on the table (and I mentioned just some of the ways error was/could be introduced) to make such a small reported increase inconclusive.

Again, the type of Dyno (DynoPak) he has is only really useful as a dynamic tuning tool, just like a Rolling Road, despite his claims to the contrary.

People flock to a Tuner or Aftermarket Supplier who claims Dyno results like Sailors on Liberty flock to Bordellos.

There are so many ways errors can be introduced, sometimes even unbeknownst to the operator. What is the Brake setting? How does the Software make it's corrections, Weather, Fuel Quality, and on and on.

Now, if the reported increases were beyond the probability of error, say 50 HP, I wouldn't be so adament.

But, he reported increases which were well below the possible error. He may have gotten a 5 HP increase, but that would be better expressed as 5 HP ± 15 or so HP (possibility of error) . That's a totally different thing...

Happy Motoring!... Jim'99

unless noted, nearly all aftermarket makers dyno cars using higher than widely available gas-o-lean. The kind you and I never run on a daily basis.

Help: How do I upload an Avatar or Pic of my car?
 

Guys, how do I insert a picture of my car in my posts or use an Avatar? I clicked the edit Avatar link and it's stuck on "don't use Avatar"?????????

Thanks,
Steve

Red 2000 Boxster S
only 37,800 miles and absolutely mint condition. I have babied it since new. Obviously not my daily driver.

I sent you a PM.

btw:
Your username is 2000SoCalBoxsterS, but you live in NY . . . wazupwitdat? :D

Since you weren't there, you are making a lot of assuptions in your comments. But this is true:

Bismoto has a dyno, and did some pulls with his 986. He saw, and reported, an increase in HP with the snorkle removed. He even posted that he repeatedly re-created the results. You continually smear his results.

Meanwhile, you don't own a dyno, and have made no pulls on one with your Boxster, at least that you've told us about. But you present yourself as the know-it-all about this mod, and how dyno results are to be interpreted. But that's not your field of expertise as you have described it. I believe you are an ex-pilot?

Bismoto had nothing to sell us. No kit to install. No special, magical parts to sell us. Just his dyno results to report. He repeated his results, and posted that he did, in conditions that would render your concerns moot. It appears that he has nothing to gain in mis-representing his results.

Unless you are calling him a liar, he's posted his burden of proof. You have not. What dog do you have in this hunt?

Bisimoto also did a dyno of a desnorkeled 2.7L,NO CHANGE ANYWHERE IN THE POWERBAND! Why would the test on the 2.7L show no changes at all,then the 3.2L showing gains? It makes no sense.

Perhaps you misread the posting for this. That was my 2.7 baseline dyno of my car, and the only mod being the desnorkle. The dyno wasn't to show a baseline of before desnorkeling, versus after desnorkling. The "baseline" was of my stock 2.7 with the single mod of a desnorkle. The dyno test had nothing to do with the desnorkle debate, rather for the purpose of having a baseline number to compare with after adding Bisi's header in the future. Hope this clarifies for you.... :cheers:

O.K.,now that makes sense.

The experiment was repeated several times, and the results were conclusive: there are power gains with the "desnork".

For those who feel that it does not provide gains, be my guest to dyno it yourselves, or visit my facility, and we can do it together...R&D is my forte, and the primary reason that I own a dyno to to perform testing in order to yield results: good and bad.

FYI, TRD, Factory Scion, and Factory Acura (all based in So. Cal), periodically use my facility for testing as well, and the same methodology has been used to test their intakes as well. Their presence and needs are the key reasons why I am moving to a larger place next week.

Stay tuned!

My results:

http://986forum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9671&highlight=bisimoto

More to come. I have so many projects at hand, but things should calm down by mid June. Then it is time to unleash some more power/technology from the 986. I just had a meeting this past Tuesday at AEM about developing an Engine Management System for the Boxster, as I noticed that our AFRs are far from optimum for power production. I will keep everyone posted, as we Beta test.

My goodness, I just saw this post:




Jim, I am sorry to say, but you have no idea what you are talking about. LOL. I am tired of biting my tongue!

A weather station (which I have 3 in the shop)? Alternator load? Proper fans (3 again)? Garbage in~Garbage out? This is insulting. How dare you attempt to discredit my years of research, academia, hard work and equipment? Based on your nonsense, we should never dyno test, or event venture to explore powergains less than 50hp!

Bottom line is this, you do not own a dyno with the proper equipment...you were not at my facility to see how my tests were conducted...you even cannot see the simple fact that our 2.7~3.2+ litre engines are fed by a restrictive orifice, with a primary goal of noise reduction.

I performed a test that no one else cared to do...not to have results yield HP gains, but to explore the outcomes, and educate. I experiment quite a bit, and things that look good on paper, rarely work: 19% of my experiments on our race cars do, but when they work, they work well.

I have world records in the competitive performance arena using my "flawed" dyno as a testing tool.

I use 4th gear in all of my pulls, Jim, and Chaudanova can attest to this as well...you really need to stop attacking me!

By the way, if you performed dyno tests, you would know that a cold engine produces more power than a warm/hot one (denser air mixture) not the other way around. Get off of your high horse, and contribute positively to this board with facts/results not fairy dust.

:: off soap box::

IMHO, regardless of whether or not the gains are real or not, I think a lot of people here are very appreciative of the fact that someone actually took the time to do so many dyno runs to find out what happens when this hack is done, as many folks on this and other forums, are no doubt intrigued with the mod.

What is the point of taking the argument to such extremes? Yes, everyone has a right to believe what they want regarding Bisi's claims, but why take it to the point of being offensive to others for the sake of winning your argument? At the end of the day, even if you think you win, you really lose in the minds of others watching. Better just to just say that you respectfully aren't convinced even after all the experimenting, but that it was an interesting read, regardless, no? JMHO. YMMV, and all that good stuff. ;)

What does AFR stand for?

Well said BoxstaBoy! Now, could you do the same thing for the Pet Peeve's thread?

Hypothetically speaking, the restriction is under the 2.7 threshold, but over the 3.2's... i.e. the 3.2 sucks more air, and is more sensitive to intake restrictions. Just a possibility :confused:



@ Bisimoto, sorry I butchered your handle :D I hope the AEM venture is fruitful. What the world really needs is a user programmable 986 ECU that's pnp, and keeps all the DME functionality.

See above...

So, the only real danger of performing this mod is getting a lit cigarette sucked through it? If so, those mesh grills that are sold on ebay would eliminate that. I think I'm going to do this mod on my 2.7 when I get it back. And make my own mesh grills.

If it's easily reversible as I've read, I see no harm.

AFR= Air Fuel Ratio

ummm, I'm going to say yes we have a snorkel....at least the instructions for removing the 987 side vents show the guy removing his snorkel....I am in the process of removing my vents right now, I think the snorkel is in the driver side vent.....I didn't attempt to get at it.....I don't think I nor my hands, shoulders, or neck wanted to endure further abuse......those vents are a pain in the &^&&%$& (*($*$*&^$^$* )()(*(&^&^%^!!!! to get off :mad:

Let's Keep This Civil
 

MNBoxster and Bisimoto,

Both of you have something to contribute here but this discussion is headed down the wrong path.

MNBoxster - I note a bit of disdain ...you have issues with the methodology/approach but it does read as both a personal attack and that you are attempting to "win" some knowledge war. You've made your point.

Bisimoto - You've responded to MNBoxster by defending yourself....PS. clean up your signature line act or become a sponsor.

Each of you appears to be on a soapbox....so since Bisimoto likes to research/experiment and Jim doesn't have a dyno - I suggest that you collaborate on the terms of an experiment to put this back/forth to rest. Another forum member near Bisimoto can agree to be the "guinea pig".

If you can't agree then both of you should stop participating in this thread.

RKwei

RKwei, I agree. We can discuss the sponsorship via PMs. Thanks.

greetings just desnorkled yesterday. no matter what anyone thinks it sounds better and louder. not like you did headers louder just louder i like it. i have a plastic screen back there already so the garbage doesnt come in and i dont think water is an issue if it wasnt already b 4 desnorkleing. just my 2 cents

:dance:


bill

I desnorkeled my 2000 about a year ago, as for power increase? as for sounding better, oh yeah. I live and Florida and my Box is a daily driver, I drive through downpours quite a bit with no problems and honestly looking at it I don't know how the snorkel would keep out water in the first place.

I also desnorkled today and have already upgraded to the mesh inserts on the vents on the side of the car. I love the sound much more throaty then before but not so loud where it's ridiculous and sounds like a honda civic with some cherry bomb exhaust. Good mod for not spending a penny.

Hi,

@RKwei - I don't make the rules here... So, Will Do...

Happy Motoring!... Jim'99

This is very strange. I de-snorked my S today, and I didn't notice anymore growl up top. However I seemed to miss the lovely pipe organ music around 2-3k. The hard to describe sewing machine whirring sound I grew to love is gone or at least greatly diminished.


From my impression, it seemed slightly lower on torque down low. Could be my imagination, perhaps the instant gratification of the whirring sound while mashing the gas made my brain think that I was accelerating faster. I guess I'll trust the data.

Sorry to keep this monster thread going but wanted to put my 2 cents worth in....

I de-snorkled my 2000 S on Friday night and drove it a bit this weekend and didn't notice any loss or gain of performance, OR sound to be honest.

I went to my friends house yesterday and de-snorkled his 2000 S while we were grilling burgers. Once again I didn't notice anything, however he said he did..??

Sooo...after reading all these posts I think it is safe to say..." Your experience will vary."

Somewhat related...
A new friend I made at the track recently (Red group, instructor, club racer, owns two 993's, one 964 and his wife drives a 944) asked me to switch cars on our 20mls way back from the track. I drove his white '95 993 and he took my 987S. He always was saying how convertibles weren't his thing so he didn't want the top down on the Box. So there we go, he leads, I follow. (Confession: I had just detailed it so I wanted to enjoy the view :) ) The whole trip is on great twisty country roads (Limerock area). After a few miles he stops and with a grin on his face goes: "OK, now I want the top down." So down goes the top, and we continue spiritedly...

After we made it back, we chatted for a while. He could not stop gushing about how good the stock suspension was, how fun the Box was to drive (especially with the top down), how tight the car had been made, how nice the interior was, but most of all he could not stop talking about the SOUND, especially above 3k+ rpms with the top down. He said Porsche engineers must have spent a lot of time and effort to design a sound like this. So methinks, why mess with success?

Z.

Z12358 I agree. Car sounds great and runs great. Why mess with perfection. This topic has been debated with varying opinions here and elsewhere. If there is an HP increase and a significant sound increase I would think there would have been less debate. To each their own.

What good is a fire extinguisher on a Boxster? It takes too long to access the engine compartment by the time you get in there your engine will be toast!

I just desnorkeled my Boxster. Havn't taken it for a good run yet. The weather was bad and I did the desnorkeling while doing other maintenance.

One thing I did notice is how vulnerable the vent is to water. What is that squared-off cup looking thing that hangs off the end of the snorkel close to the side intake vent? It looks like it would be great at catching and holding water when the snorkel is in place.