Daddy Like...!! - 986 Forum - The Community for Porsche Boxster & Cayman Owners

dcporsche99 · 03-29-2007, 09:34 AM

Seubs,

Very nice!! Good luck with your studies and with getting the Porsche of your dreams!!

I have been wanting to visit the Stuttgart factory for some time now. The closest I have been there was at the Munich airport a few summers ago at a stopover before I headed over to Italy. Unfortunately, I have neither had the opportunity nor have I made the time to do so. It's definitely on my list of things to do!!

BuffaloBoxster · 03-29-2007, 10:02 AM

I've always loved Lotuses (Loti?).. I've longed for a Turbo Esprit forever, and might have gotten one instead of the Boxster if I was more mechanically inclined. I'd strongly consider an Elise for my next toy, except that I think I drive the Boxster too much for the Elise to be livable..

Perfectlap · 03-29-2007, 02:27 PM

great cars

but this is the Lotus I always wanted to track (they claim 0-60 in 2.9)

http://www.dupontregistry.com/autos/Search/DRauSearchDetails.aspx?itemid=355974

or the original Chapman "Miata"

Elan

porsche986spyder · 03-29-2007, 02:36 PM

I love the look of that car, but for the price and the fact that the engine is actually nothing more than a 1.8 Ltr 4 cylinder, Toyota Celica GTS engine is very disapointing and over rated. I found out this unfortunate news after I saw one up close. It only has 190Hp! The power to whieght ratio is great, but it still needs more power in my opinion and for the price of a Lotus, they should be able to put a turbo in there.

For those of you who don't belive that its nothing more than a Toyota Celica GTS engine go to this web site.
http://www.sandsmuseum.com/cars/elise/thecar/engine/toyota.html

Or this one.
http://www.autofieldguide.com/articles/060402.html

Bavarian Motorist · 03-29-2007, 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by porsche986spyder

I love the look of that car, but for the price and the fact that the engine is actually nothing more than a 1.8 Ltr 4 cylinder, Toyota Celica GTS engine is very disapointing and over rated. I found out this unfortunate news after I saw one up close. It only has 190Hp! The power to whieght ratio is great, but it still needs more power in my opinion and for the price of a Lotus, they should be able to put a turbo in there.

For those of you who don't belive that its nothing more than a Toyota Celica GTS engine go to this web site.
http://www.sandsmuseum.com/cars/elise/thecar/engine/toyota.html

Or this one.
http://www.autofieldguide.com/articles/060402.html

What car you talking about? The 2-11 is 252bhp.

The regular Lotus Elise is 190hp which is...a lot.

You have to realize this is not a drag car. It's a sports car.

As a Boxster owner, you should understand this better than anyone.

MNBoxster · 03-29-2007, 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by porsche986spyder

I love the look of that car, but for the price and the fact that the engine is actually nothing more than a 1.8 Ltr 4 cylinder, Toyota Celica GTS engine is very disapointing and over rated. I found out this unfortunate news after I saw one up close. It only has 190Hp! The power to whieght ratio is great, but it still needs more power in my opinion and for the price of a Lotus, they should be able to put a turbo in there.

For those of you who don't belive that its nothing more than a Toyota Celica GTS engine go to this web site.
http://www.sandsmuseum.com/cars/elise/thecar/engine/toyota.html

Or this one.
http://www.autofieldguide.com/articles/060402.html

Hi,

You are really talking beyond your experience. The Engine is sourced by Toyota, but with a Lotus Head and Lotus ECU, it is not the same as the Celica GTS.

So far as adding a Turbo, again you don't get it. A Naturally Aspirated car drives better than a Forced one. It is preferable from that standpoint.

Most Forced Induction cars have split personalities - On Boost and Off Boost. This can be very disconcerting in the Twisties at the Apex or on a Track.

In fact, Lotus Engineering did a lot of engineering on this engine for Toyota back in the '90's when they used to frequently burn up the Crank Bearings. Lotus redesigned the Oiling system, and the Bearings. Added an Oil Cooler, and the engine gained 10HP and became instantly as bulletproof as anything else coming out of the Motomachi plant.

I only wish the Boxster Engine had Toyota reliability...

Happy Motoring!... Jim'99

porsche986spyder · 03-30-2007, 07:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MNBoxster

Hi,

You are really talking beyond your experience. The Engine is sourced by Toyota, but with a Lotus Head and Lotus ECU, it is not the same as the Celica GTS.

So far as adding a Turbo, again you don't get it. A Naturally Aspirated car drives better than a Forced one. It is preferable from that standpoint.

Most Forced Induction cars have split personalities - On Boost and Off Boost. This can be very disconcerting in the Twisties at the Apex or on a Track.

In fact, Lotus Engineering did a lot of engineering on this engine for Toyota back in the '90's when they used to frequently burn up the Crank Bearings. Lotus redesigned the Oiling system, and the Bearings. Added an Oil Cooler, and the engine gained 10HP and became instantly as bulletproof as anything else coming out of the Motomachi plant.

I only wish the Boxster Engine had Toyota reliability...

Happy Motoring!... Jim'99

Whatever, the engine block is still a Toyota. Look at the links I posted. My brother has a Toyota Celica GTS and the Lotus even has the Toyota stamp on the block. Its not visible when you pop the hood, but its still on there. I never said the entire engine was made by Toyota. Thats why I posted those links, did you even look at them? My point was that for the price you pay for the Regular Lotus Elis it is still underpowered. All those other exotic sports cars out there and Lotus could not put an engine in the car that could break the 250hp mark? To expensive of a car to pay for and only get 190hp. All show and no go. As for tubos, there is nothing wrong with the drivability on the track or off. Look at the cars that are famous for track records. Most have turbos. Subaru WRX, Dodge Neon SRT-4, Mitsubishi Eclipse GT or GSX, etc...I'm sure there are some turbo Porsches in there too.

Perfectlap · 03-30-2007, 08:39 AM

well the one thing you are not taking into account is that the very religion of Lotus racing was to make cars as light as possible. Deliberately putting modest power in their cars was a way of demonstrating that if the car itself was properly designed and a REAL HONEST effort was made to make the cars as light as possible(Unlike Porsche who put in Sunroofs in the 911 GT3's now) there would be no need put in a huge engine...the same religion as the pure roadster one.

At 190 hp the car is not underpowered because its light weight. Car magazines have convinced you into believing that a BARELY two tons car needs at least 250 hp. That simply isn't true. Go for a ride on the track with an experienced driver where you are going 10/10's for a full lap and you will NOT be saying 190 hp is not enough. The car only requires more power if its going to weigh more or compete on the track against cars that have a power to weight ration better than theirs. Since the Elise is intended to be a fun car and not a donor car for spec racing like 911 GT3, then a 1.8 serves its purpose more than adequately as the average driver will have his hands more than full with 190 hp on barely two tons.
Like the 73 911 RS that won overall at LeMans (not just class!!) and that thing only had a 2.7 with barely 215 HP.

Now whether or not $50K is a fair price for an Elise is another question altogether. Very few sports cars are classifieds as worth their price. If the ELise had a more exotic and powerful engine in it you would be paying WAY more than you can get it for today...which would limit the buyer pool even further. Lotus has to sell at least some of their cars! And I'm just guessing but I doubt their profit (if they even have one) is not coming from the engine area, more like because of the lower cost Japanese engines they are able to reduce their expenses as a boutique car builder. Believe it or not they did you favor putting in a Celica engine...Low Maintenace and racing/track engines are not really terms that go hand and hand. Good on the Lotus managers for taking matters into their own hands and just dumping the Celica engine in the car without waiting for either Lotus or Toyota corporate dudes to approve it. Sometimes you just have to take matters into your own hands.

MNBoxster · 03-30-2007, 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by porsche986spyder

Whatever, the engine block is still a Toyota. Look at the links I posted. My brother has a Toyota Celica GTS and the Lotus even has the Toyota stamp on the block. Its not visible when you pop the hood, but its still on there. I never said the entire engine was made by Toyota. Thats why I posted those links, did you even look at them? My point was that for the price you pay for the Regular Lotus Elis it is still underpowered. All those other exotic sports cars out there and Lotus could not put an engine in the car that could break the 250hp mark? To expensive of a car to pay for and only get 190hp. All show and no go. As for tubos, there is nothing wrong with the drivability on the track or off. Look at the cars that are famous for track records. Most have turbos. Subaru WRX, Dodge Neon SRT-4, Mitsubishi Eclipse GT or GSX, etc...I'm sure there are some turbo Porsches in there too.

Hi,

Again, your criteria is only for Horsepower. The engine provides enough power/torque for some very respectable numbers as is and an NA engine is more reliable, last longer, uses less fuel and it is more linear - more Driveable.

So what if the motor says Toyota? Toyota makes great engines. Lots of high-end Sports Cars use engines from other manufacturers - the McLaren F1 uses a BMW motor...

Happy Motoring!... Jim'99

Adam · 03-30-2007, 07:00 PM

[QUOTE=porsche986spyder] My point was that for the price you pay for the Regular Lotus Elis it is still underpowered. All those other exotic sports cars out there and Lotus could not put an engine in the car that could break the 250hp mark? To expensive of a car to pay for and only get 190hp. All show and no go. QUOTE]

As mentioned earlier, it is power to weight that makes a good sports car. A 190 hp lotus Elise is as fast if not faster than a new 295 hp boxster S from 0-60 and it handles better. The car will blow your boxster into the weeds without even breaking a sweat. Granted, the boxster S is faster in the 100mph plus realm, but in real track duty that makes little difference.

dcporsche99 · 03-29-2007, 02:58 PM

They are both mean looking rides! I agree that the Exige below...without the steroids (S).... 2.9 sec 0-60 is still crazzzy! But, I still cannot imagine what that would feel like!! Despite the fact that it has a Toyota engine...it's still pretty remarkable!

As far as the little Miata, I am sure that would be a trip to drive as well...but for different reasons!