Supercharger - Imagine Auto
 

Hi guys. I've been a lurker here for some time. I wanted to get your most learned opinions on the ImagineAuto supercharger kit.

Has anyone here installed the kit? I'm in Australia and dont want to go to all the trouble of having a unit shipped out to me only to find its not worth the effort.

Here are some of the questions (below) I fired off to Imagine - if anyone else can answer them or give me some further ideas / information that's pertinent I'd be most appreciative :) Also I may have missed some questions out to ask so any advice here too would be great.

Thanks very much

------------------------------------

Can you ship your supercharger kit to Australia?

Do you have anyone in Australia (Melbourne) that has installed one of these kits?

Do you need to do the GIAC flash upgrade or can the supercharger be installed without it?

Do you need to rebuild the engine before even thinking of deploying the supercharger?

How much for shipping? How much for the unit?

You mentioned in the article that this was developed for the 2.5 but later on I see “suitable for 2.7/3.2” – could you clarify a little for me?

1. Im sure they can ship the kit anywhere.
2. Dont know if they have sold one in Australia
3. Yes, you need to reprogram the cars computer
4. How many miles, engine condition would be a factor.
5. Dont know how much money probably around $7,000.00 US dont know about shipping.

Thats my thoughts.

thank you
 

thank you Ohioboxster you are a gentleman and a scholar :)

Have you finished installing your kit yet? I'm dying to know what your opinion is of it.

Kind regards

The thread above is actually a play by play of the install.

price difference in Imagine Auto vs Ohio's kit
 

From what I can tell the retail price of the Imagine Auto kit is US$ 7k?

but what you have below doesn't add up to anywhere near 7k

How did you get the kit so cheap? Are Imagine making an absolute fortune? What would buying their kit for 7k benefit me over doing what you have done?

Kind regards

------

Supercharger kit..........$ 1398.00 includes shipping
Brass nut.....................$ free 00 guy at home depot gave it to me
Metric fastners.............$ 38.00 Bolt depot (studs,nuts,washers,etc)
Loctite flange sealant..$ 25.00 Online (couldnt find it locally)
Vacuum hose...............$ 4.00 Auto Zone
Tee-fitting....................$ 1.99 Auto Zone
water hose 1"..............$ 11.00 Auto Zone
Dayco belt....................$ 36.00 Advanced auto
Digi box (fuel box)........$ 500.00 TPC
Injector........................$ 100.00 TPC
Fuel line.......................$ 50.00 TPC
Install manual..............$ 00.00 TPC (gave me manual free)
Shipping 4 ^.................$ 20.00 Ups
Air filter.........................$ 22.00 Pelican
Fuel filter......................$ 38.00 Peliican
2" Silicon hose..............$ 25.00 E-bay 2 total S&H in price
Supercharger oil............$ 14.00 Pontiac dealer (2 bottles)


Misc money:

Mobil 1..........................$ 57.90 Auto Zone
Oil Filter........................$ 13.00 Sunset
Ignition switchs............$ 36.00 E-bay (2 total)(no labor $)
Clutch line.....................$ 63.00 Porsche dealer (no labor $)
Brake fluid.................... $ 5.00 Auto Zone ( need to double check this price)

I found a used kit on E-bay that is like new. Let me clarify, I dont know how much Imagine autos kit cost. That was just a guess.

In case anyone is interested I heard back from Imagine Auto. Response below. As you can see, they were prompt and friendly. I'll be weighing up the advantages / costs of buying a 3.2 from an S and dropping it straight in vs the SC. Is there anything else that needs to be changed during a 3.2 upgrade? EG I assume the tiptronic is common between the earlier 2.5s and the 3.2s?

Thanks alot to Vin as well for his kind help!! Front page of our main newspaper in Australia reads "Discovery: Major Celebrity to drive Porsche Boxster in up and coming film XXX3"

Regards

-----
FROM IMAGINE AUTO:

Oliver,

Yes we can ship to you.

Not as of yet. Lots of inquires but no actual sales as of yet to your area.
Yes, the ECU has to be sent to us to be flashed.
No, the system is designed to run on a stock motor.
Shipping would be several hundred dollars for air freight.
Sorry, the kit available is the 2.5. It can be shipped any time.

Hope this helps. Thanks for the questions and let me know what concerns/questions you may have. The kit is a wonderful addition to any Boxster and delivers very favorable results. I know you would be pleased with it.

Best,

Stephen

Did they give you a kit price?

The pricing I've found is $6995.

I'm seriously thinking of importing a bunch of these into Australia as I think there's a market for them

I'm torn though because I've been talking to Turbowerx:

http://turbowerx.com/page1/page3/page3.html?gclid=CIumy4i3-4YCFSI7GAodCkULIA

Their twin turbo kit looks like its the duck's nuts - it's the same price and takes 1/2 the time to install.

Hmm supercharger .. or twin turbocharger .. hmm supercharger .. or twin turbocharger

Its like being torn between one's current wife and one's future wife ;)

I am not affiliated with either of the companies, and I am not advocating one system over the other, but here are my two cents:

The iA supercharger (non-intercooled) is supposed to increase rwhp from 150 to 230. That is an increase of 53% (not 38% as claimed on iA's web site). That's a very large increase. The following estimate of supercharged hp can be used (e.g., see Corky Bell's book):

HP_super = HP_na * PR * DR * VER * DPE.

PR is the pressure ratio, DR is the air density ratio (boosted/na), VER is the ratio of volumetric efficiciencies, and DPE is the drive power efficiency (100% if belt is transmitting power perfectly).

For illustration purposes let's use DR=0.85 (ballpark for a non-intercooled system), VER=1.1 (better VE after supercharger install), DPE=1 (perfect power transmission). You can plug in other values and see what you get, but the values I used are a good starting point, IMHO.

Then, you can find that in order to go from 150 to 230 hp, you need a PR of 1.64 (someone please check my math). That corresponds to roughly 9.5 psi of boost (again, please check). Why is this important? The Boxster is a fairly high compression ratio engine. That means you want to have low boost levels. 9.5psi to me seems too high to safely use on a Boxster engine with stock internals. YMMV.

Based on what turbowerx say on their website, their kit provides 6psi of boost, intercooled. They only claim an hp gain of 60 hp (to 210 hp). Plug in their numbers into my equation above, and you will find that this makes a lot more sense (PR=1.4, DR=0.9 due to intercooler, VE=1.1, DPE=1):

HP_super = 150 * 1.4 * 0.9 * 1.1 *1 = 209.
(The last term is approximative, as there is no belt efficiency in a turbo system)

Of course, this is just physics, so real world results may vary :)

Bottom line: I don't see how iA can get 80 hp out of a non-intercooled supercharger kit at safe boost levels. Judging from the numbers on paper, turbowerx seems to offer more realistic power gains. Ask for dyno charts including A/F ratio and boost levels before buying.

Gary

P.S. Useful books:
Corky Bell, Maximum Boost
Corky Bell, Supercharged!
A. Graham Bell, Forced Induction Performance Tuning

Can you / Should you decompress the engine before doing either procedure?

BTW thank you Gary for your write up - that was pretty incredible! :)

Theoretically, you can lower the compression ratio by installing different pistons. However, I am not aware of anyone who makes / sells these for the Boxster. So, practically, the answer is, no...

Low boost levels with proper chip mapping should be fine without lowering the compression. I personally would start to get concerned at anything beyond 6psi or so, but that's not a hard-and-fast rule.

If you are seriously interested in forced induction, read Corky Bell's books - it's a small investment, and you'll be a much more educated buyer!

BTW, please do not think that I advocate the turbowerx kit over the iA one. An intercooled twin-turbo certainly sounds better to me on paper, but a lot depends on the kit maker's ability to tune the system, and I have no first hand experience with either of these kits.

Best,
Gary

I asked Marc at Turbowerx to comment on your blurb, Gary. (Out of pure interest, not to question you). Marc and I have been corresponding as I am now seriously considering selling the Turbowerx kits in Australia. So far he has been the only guy to get back to me with friendly and helpful advise (although it IS still the weekend over there for people in the US :) ) This was his response:

"Interesting comments by Gary. He is spot on. The numbers presented by IA (and TPC, but they pulled their s/c system a week ago) are misleading at best. It is obvious to us they are playing a game by showing an artificially low baseline, and then an optimistically high result. We have noted this for a long, long time. There are numerous ways to massage dyno charts to give the result you want. We don't play that game. We give exact, honest numbers. In some respects it's tough(er) to compete against people/companies that do this, but we have chosen not to stoop to that to sell the product. We firmly believe a product should stand on it's merits. Not hype, or certainly not outright lies. We are confident the truth will prevail - people like Gary will be the one's to help educate the market."


-Marc

Hey Oliverg
I was at a PCV meeting in Melbourne on the weekend and one of the guys was trying to sell me the Supercharger off his car. It was originally installed by Peter Fitzgerald .
If your are interested in following up the kit ( Which is currently installed on his 2001 S ) , PM me and I will give him your contact detailsand I will pass it on to him. Obviosly you could drive the car to see how you liked it

Cheers

Dennis

Ah thank you very much Dennis. I don't think the S kits work with the standard Boxster? Do you know how much he wanted?

Kindest regards

Don't know much technically. Fitzgerald would be able to answer that.
We didn't get around to discussing price. I am arranging to have a drive to check it out but I suspect I will go the 3.4/3.6 route when the time comes.

Cheers

Dennis

I spoke at length to Peter Fitzgeral regarding the SC he has for sale.

He imported it into Australia (it is the TPC one) and the first car it was installed in was a 2.5 - the engine blew within 2 months and Peter says he was the first person in Australia to rebuild a 2.5 engine (which he did for the client).

He then installed it in another client's vehicle and changed the injectors back to stock and changed the DME back to stock but did something funky with the 7th injector and restricted the boost level to 5.5 - apparently the initial 2-3 seconds after planting your foot the boost on the stock TPC with upgraded DME is around 9 (which is way too much for an engine of this compression). The second engine blew too.

Last car he put it in was a tiptronic - and after a few months, the transmission died. 14k to install a new tranny.

So now this evil supercharger sits ready waiting for the next victim!!!!! Peter wouldn't sell it to me as I have a tip. He assures me that he's ironed out the bugs (!!!!!) now. (I would think so, after 3 cars!)

He then tried to sell me the 3.4l upgrade. He has a 'brand new' 3.4 engine that was deployed in a guy who did track in it. Apparently there were sump issues with Boxsters with sticky tyres and oil starvation so the 3.4l blew and he rebuilt it. (So when he says "brand new" its 'sort of brand new') He wanted 30k ($AUD) which is about 22K $US for fitting and supply - but would be willing to give me a 1 year warranty on the engine itself.

Personally, I think 30k is way too high - I know I can get a 3.4l with all the bits for around 10k-12k $AUD and I can't see it costing 18-20k to install it! Am I wrong? Does anyone know how much (average) a 3.4l non egas 996 engine goes for?

I'll keep everyone posted anyway. Take care all!

I would avoid this kit for sure because the things he is telling you make no sense. First is boost level I need to clear up your unit of measure are we talking foot pounds? (ft. Lbs.) If so the factory SC from TPC come with a pulley that creates 4.5 Ft. Lbs of boost. If he detuned his kit to 5.5 I have a feeling someone installed a different size pulley on the SC unit. If this is the case, motors are blowing for just cause. Compressed air is hot and will cause detonation. Detonation over time even extremely short time equals a blown motor no if ands or buts about it. I have installed SC kits in the past and have never seen boost shoot up in the first two seconds as he described. Now, if the blow off valve is bad I can understand a build up of pressure. The ladder makes no sense to me. Next the IA kit is the one where you change the factory injectors not the TPC kit. Finally, how in the world could you control an additional injector if you disconnect it from the factory ECU? If it was wired direct the motor would flood with gasoline. The whole thing just doesn't add up. The best part is he readily admits to blowing up three cars and still thinks you would buy the kit. Honest to a fault or just plain stupid?

oliverg

i'm a 2.5L owner from Sydney, Australia.

I've just started toying with the idea of a 3.4L conversion or turbo kit (preferably 3.4L conversion but depends on cost). I have spoken to the Porsche specialist who does all the mechanical work on my car, and he's advised that the labour cost should only be around AUD$6k-$7K for the 3.4L swap.

My problem is sourcing an engine and ECU, and I also have no idea what sort of price would be reasonable for these items in Australia. I would have guessed that AUD$10K-$15K would be realistic.

I met a chap in the Porsche Club NSW who has done a 3.4L swap into what was a 2.5L Boxster, and it made around 180kw at the wheels, although it was running a touch lean at the time. This was prior to me considering on embarking on this project, so I'm kicking myself for not asking him more questions at the time.

The Turbowerx kit you mentioned does appeal to me, and it is the cheapest turbo kit I have seen for the Boxster so far. I'd be interested to know if anyone has any feedback as to how effective/reliable these kits are.

Keep me posted on how you get on, it sounds like your plans/research are a lot more advanced than mine.

Cheers.

Ohio - yes you are right - detonation was one of the reasons one of the cars blew. Also, my lay person translation of what he told me may be a bit skewed by my sheer lack of understanding. He did tell me the TPC injectors that were OE were special ones though - I remember that distinctly because I thought "ah just like the IA one" :) He struck me as completely honest but .. I honestly would say that even though he assures me that the problems are fixed now, I wouldn't be buying that particular kit!!

Rennsport - I thought before I started researching that it would be about 12-15k $AUD for a 3.4 swap - when he asked for 30k I almost died! He started off by saying "well usually you'd pay 40k" and I think I had an accident involving a new set of underwear. Your friend got 180kw to the wheels? That's about right from what I know, although with the new 100RON fuel we have now (Optimax Extreme) something funky could probably be done with the DME to increases that further - do you know if your friend was using the 2.5's cats/headers/muffler? The engine this guy was selling had custom cats for a 3.4.

If we go ahead with importing the Turbowerx twin turbos, I can have the install done here for you in Melbourne and would be prepared to give you a substantial discount (ie cost price!!) to be a guinea pig!

It was my thought to start doing 3.4 drops for a fixed price, then taking the 2.5s and rebuilding them and fitting the twin turbo kits and selling them as a package. Got to do some return on investment figures and see if its worthwhile.

If I can help you in any way I'd be only too happy to oblige

As Jim says. "Happy Motoring" :)

The guy I know with the 3.4L conversion had a full exhaust (extractors/cats/muffler) made or customised by Starr Performance in Melbourne. I'm not sure if his exhaust setup is the same that they would usually recommend for a standard 2.5/2.7/3.2 Boxster/S.

I've been in contact with Starr Performance who were very honest with me and advised that the exhausts that they have for normal 2.5/2.7/3.2 986's DO NOT provide any performance increase, just a much more aggressive sound. This is in contrast to the race exhausts they do for GT3's which do provide additional horsepower.

I'd be interested to get an idea of some ballpark costs for the turbo kit. I must admit though I have some reservations as to how bulletproof the 2.5 engine will be when turbocharged. I also haven't come across any feedback for the Turbowerx kit, so am unaware how good/bad it may be.

I certainly don't mean to hijack this thread or go off on too far a tangent, but has anyone installed a Turbo/Supercharger into a 987 yet? or are they too new yet? and is it worth the cost for the increase? And, of course, does anyone know anyone that's even selling performace parts for the 987 yet? I've been having trouble finding them so far.

I've seriously considered doing it, although like most I'll probably wait until the warantee is expired rather than void it prematurely.

For reference, this is for an 06 987 (Boxster), non-S, 2.7L. I'm pleased with the stock performance so far, but I've always been one to tinker with my cars/bikes, but this is my first Porsche, so it's still a little new for me.

Thanks in advance!

im confused as to why anyone of you even want to do this to your boxster's. so for $8000 all you get is 50h.p. + wear n tear on the engine + you just blew up the price of a $50,000 boxster, that is over priced in the first place. now you have a car that for sure nobody will buy. because its just too expensive.

i bet for $8000 i could buy a used civic, put a turbo or a sc kit and blow away any boxster that cost $58,000 with a turbo kit.

do the math doesnt work out. if it was h.p you were after you bought the wrong car. esspecially with cars on the market today with stock 300h.p. dam even a $25,000 mazda comes with 275 h.p add a turbo kit for what $8000. the boxster can't compete.

save the money if i were you. nobody is going to buy these kits...............maybe 1 out of 100 boxster owners.

Hi,

This subject is purely a matter of opinion. Some want 'em, others don't. That said, I tend to agree with you.

In almost all applications, a Turbocharger or Supercharger is a compromise. That is, it can make a small engine act like a bigger one. But, it accomplishes this through more complexity, significantly greater cost, decreased reliability and longevity, and with the case of the Turbo, excessive amounts of heat - a significant factor in a mid-engined car which already usually has heat management issues. In the end, all you have is still a small displacement engine with little bottom end.

I also agree that many want the Boxster to be something it isn't - a rip-roaring power and torque monster. Many want a Boxster on the outside with a Viper on the inside, which just isn't possible. As you say, many simply bought the wrong car.

Before simply adding a Turbo/Super, anyone contemplating this should seriously consider selling the car and finding something more appropriate to their wants and needs. In the end, many would be happier going this route, though few will realize this before the fact, and some may live to regret not having done so later on.

Selling a Car and choosing another is one of the easiest things in the world to do. But many don't realize this, or want to face the penalty they may have incurred by buying the wrong car in the first place, namely depreciation.

So instead, they settle for the compromise of force-feeding the engine. To my mind, this is just digging a deeper hole, better to cut your losses and get into something which is more satisfying to you, but as I said, that's me.

Others simply want to modify their car. Many are never satisfied with whatever rolls off the line. That's OK too, but I'd be much more inclined to go the 3.4L or 3.8L engine swap than to force the motor. There's truth to the addage that "there's no substitute for cubic inches...". This option is less complex, more reliable, will probably hold resale value better, and produce a broader power/torque band. Overall, it would probably deliver more satisfaction, and that's really what it's all about...

Happy Motoring!... Jim'99

MNBoxster is exactly right................

lol... I think this one has a better ring to it "there's no replacement for displacement." ;)

This is an honest question so there is no sarcasm meant...

What options are out there that offer a drop top with the same handling abilities as a Boxster? Keep in mind that I'm a firm believer that the best handling cars are mid-engine.

Hi,

I think it is a valid question. But, the Boxster is not the best handling car in the world. I've owned several which will outperform it, including my current Lotus Esprit (with approx the same weight, HP, length and track - coincidence?), a lotus Europa and an Elan SE. The Noble M400, the Cayman S, and new Elise will also out-handle it, but of course of all these, only the Elan is offered as a convertible.

The Boxster may be the best handling production drop top in the world, but the Lotus Elan, a limited production drop top (1962-1973), is generally considered by enthusiasts and automotive engineers to be the best handling car of all time. This is the model most shoot for, in fact, the Miata is the result of Mazda buying 2 '71 Elans in the mid-80's and reverse engineering them. I used to own one (a '72SE) and it'll run circles around the Boxster. BTW, most do not realize that the Elan is a Front mid-engine car in that the engine lies behind the front axle. If you ever have the opportunity to drive one of these, be sure not to pass it up.

But, back to your question. There is no perfect car, or any car that will top out in the Speed and Handling categories at the same time. If you think you can slap on a bunch of ponies and reach this ultimate goal, you'll find that you fall short or upset the delicate balance of the car. The fatsest car is not often the first to complete a lap, it's how far you can stay off the brakes into the corner and how soon you can get back on the power which will determine who can lap the fastest. Finesse over power will win almost every time...

Happy Motoring!... Jim'99

True.

But then again... for ALMOST all Boxster owners, the handling will do just fine...

And as far as s/c'ing the engine... think objectively and honestly with yourself for a moment -- you're gonna be leanin' on it most of the time, aren't you? I personally don't have the "ankle-control" to keep my foot off the loud pedal when I've got something that exciting available (yes, an extra 50-60 ponies would make me feel like a 10 year old boy again).

The Boxter's appeal isn't it's horsepower, it's the finesse. Open up the intake and exhaust, blow a few bucks through a 'Tweeks' mag for some nice looking touches... You've got a classy, calculated and collected, calm car (alliteration!)

You really want a rocketship? If you've got Motronic 7.8+, go to FVD and tell them you want to spend $25,000 on a 3.8L Carrera S motor swap. Sell your current motor for a few bucks, if you're lucky, get the total-out-the-door price of the swap down to about $20 large, and go blow the doors off of everything that looks at you wrong.

I'm looking at no more than $25 invested in my current boxster... add another $20 to that figure and we've got a $45,000, gorgeous boxster with 355bhp. That's
1) less than a new boxster, 2) a sleeper, 3) an understressed motor, 4) an unbelievable sound (kind of like accelerating while your head is in the engine bay of a 997), and 5).... you've still got room for small improvements to the motor (or, if you are really ballsy a s/c...which would seem a safer choice on a 911 motor).

Once you NEED more from your boxster, go this route. Please... it'll probably lower the cost for when I'm ready for it!

kind of true.....it depends on how long the straights are on the track layout. If there are significant straights, the larger hp cars, although outbraked in the turns, can make it up (and then some) on the straights. In club races where boxsters and 911 are on the track at the same time, the boxsters are always right with the 911 (or ahead!) through the turns, but they always lose in the straights cause they dont have the oomph.

Racer X what you said is exactly the conclusion I came to. My 00 box is in the shop right now getting its 3.4 installed. I am going with a custom header/cats/muffler setup done by Steve Timmons of Instant G. He developed a custom setup especially for this conversion and it gets the 3.4 egas up to about 320hp at the fly with software. I am also adding the AASCO Lt Wt flywheel, which will take a nice chunk out of the drivetrain losses. I am debating about doing the GIAC software as well. I probably will but it costs another grand!

For anybody interested in the costs here is what I am getting
lightly used 3.4 from a wreck $7000
Custom header/cats/muffler $3000
GT-3 center radiator kit $500
AASCO Lt Wt Fly $800
New Boxster front fascia (to get the opening for the center radiator) $500.
New clutch kit $400
Labor about $3000.

Grand Total around 16k. Paid 25k for the car 2 years ago (30k miles) that cost 50 grand brand new. So for 41k total investment I will have a great handling Porsche roadster with equal hp to a 996 and less weight, that cost 10k less than the car cost brand new, and WAY less than a new 987, with more hp than a 987.

I am not worried about selling, because I love my Boxster so much I would never sell it anyway. I will drive it until it falls to pieces.

I dont like the styling of the 987 anyway.

Hi,

In theory, and if you're driving a high-speed oval such as Indy or Daytona, you're right. But, if you're driving these tracks, you don't want a Boxster anyway.

But, for every road course I've personally driven (and that includes Watkins Glen, Road America, Road Atlanta, Sears Point, Limerock Park, Road Atlanta, Infineon, Blackhawk Farms), my statement is true - the car which can brake the latest and power-on the soonest is usually the quickest lap time.

Going fast down the straight is all about the car, going fast through the twisties is more about the driver...

Happy Motoring!... Jim'99

I love my Boxster. It truly is an amazing vehicle.

That said, I love the idea of making my Boxster different - faster, better handling - better sound etc. I guess it may be the result of playing too many video games and getting caught up in the collection of "power ups"

If I want to go really fast, I know I can jump in my Subaru WRX STi and cane it until the wheels smoke. But it doesn't feel the same as my Boxster. The Boxster is more refined. Sophisticated.

So at this juncture, having accepted the fact that I want to drive my Boxster, I now sign up to this wonderful forum too fantasize and drool - too implement theories and test unproven designs and guess what - to all those that ask "why spend XXXk when you can drive an X car for less" - I'm having so much fun right now, that's why!

There is something amazing about throwing a supercharger in your car and getting in and "bum dyno" testing it. Sure the Boxster isn't the fastest car in the world, but its mine - I like to drive it and I like to modify it to make it different.

If we didn't enjoy this "hobby", this forum wouldn't exist would it?

:)

Hey Jim!
Sounds like you have quite a lot of track experience and I don't, so I would not presume to disagree with you. Your observations actually remind me of the original BMW M3, a 4 cyl. with only 192hp, but definitely a momentum type of race car, that won everything against higher hp cars. The shop that I take my car to and is doing the engine swap does race a boxster in the spec racing series, and they are very good drivers who also race a GT-3 and a 993 race car. They tell me that in their boxster, they have no trouble keeping up with and beating 911's, including GT-3's, through the turns, but can't keep up on the straights. Which makes sense, a lighter, mid engined car should be faster through the turns than a heavy rear engined car with equal driver abilities.

I still believe that the laws of physics support mid-engine vehicles. I don't see anyway that you can obtain a better balance and shift of weight (weight distribution sitting still doesn't tell the whole story) than having the large engine mass between the axles. Ferarri has done it for years and has been the most prominent "production" benchmark. Even the latest Ford GT has a "mid-engine" set up and it's kickin' some booty at least in magazine tests. :)

I'm sure the older Elan has some great handling characteristics but was still referred to as a mid-engine vehicle. ;)

I will agree that there have been some great handling vehicles out there but with all things being equal I just don't see how a mid-engine vehicle wouldn't come out on top? Ferarri, Acura, Saleen, etc are all part of this group and I believe they have both power and handling (too bad only Ferarri has the drop top but then again, I can't afford it anyway). The Boxster just happens to be the most affordable (maybe the MR2 should be thrown in here but the visual appeal isn't there for me). I wonder how much you can tune a MR2? :D

We all know that in taking corners you can slow down faster than you can speed up which is why the extra HP and torque would be nice in pulling out of turns. I don't think looking for extra power is an unreasonable request even if it is pricey.

Of course, I'm not talking about ovals and drag strips because at that point I would agree, buy a different car. I am talking about racing on road courses/autocrosses/twisties/curvy/tracks.

BTW - MNBoxster, I mean all of this in the best of manner for the sake of debate. I look forward to and appreciate your comments and opinions.

Best Regards,
Sammy

Guys, I'm a noobie. I just bought a use 2003 porsce S boxster in seal grey with 26K miles. I think I know why it's difficult for us to mod the HP for these cars. Porsche knows a thing or two about engineering, but these cars are designed not to be modded easily. If they could easily be modded HP they would prove themselves with inexpensive modification to be superior to the 911, because the handling is already there. So we are given a light engine, unless you want to buy the rumored turbo caymen @ > 100K

I think putting in bigger motors personally sucks compared to the versatility of a turbo setup. On a turbo setup you can have a 100 octane map and make safely 50-60hp more.

How much would it cost to fortify the engine (forged pistons) and what are the limits of the drive train/clutch etc. The boxster S would be awesome with 50-70 hp more. Some of the mods here are ridiculously expensive compared to what I can get for my Subaru STI. It's primarely because these mods are coming from the guys who work on the 911s/turbos. I'm not talking about labor here.... I'm just talking the price of these kits.

Just to clear up some misconceptions:

A 3.4L engine in a boxster puts down roughly 280rwhp on our dyno. The supercharged S (stage I) puts down just over 280hp to the rear wheels. A new 997C2S puts down right at 300rwhp on our dyno. The performance is there, there isn't an extra wear and tear on the engine because of the supercharger. If you are going to go out and power brake the car and do burn outs, well then expect some more wear and tear on the car, but that's due to the driver. Doing an engine transplant is not a cheap option...so this was the alternative we came up with. For the extra money it will cost you to do an engine transplant, you are getting zero-very little horsepower gains over a supercharger kit.

There are a lot of guys throwing out numbers about a $50k new boxster and not wanting to modify it. That is fine, but realize that is for a new boxster off the showroom floor. Also realize that the 986 boxster is now almost 10 years old, and used prices are not expensive by any means. You can pick them up for $20k easily for the older models. So you pick up an affordable car, and modify it and have an incredible machine for under 30-35k. Not a bad deal in my opinion for the performance it is putting down. We can hold on to what things cost when they were knew, but also realize that an automobile is a depreciating asset. Hell the 944 Turbo could be optioned out to over $40k (back in the 80's) when it was new as well....

at 280rwhp, the boxster S is an absolute blast to drive. Look for the upcoming article on it (and the 2.5L boxster supercharged) in excellence and european car magazine.....

285 RWHP 350 or so crank hp!!! I have the dyno report Karl ;) WOW is it fun! Anyone in the Seattle area can e-mail me and I will take them for a ride! The S/C can not be herd over 2500 RPM's so do not worry about the S/C wine...I was a little disappointed by the end result HP number but after driving it surprises you how fast it really is..

Josh

Enjoy the car JP, I know you haven't had it for a long time. Hopefully it was worth it. Look in excellence and european car magazine in a few months, you will see a nice supercharged Black Boxster S :)