IMS failure???
 

My 2003 Boxster drained all oil out on road today...
Found out the problem only after it was pulled back to my garage.
There was a hole in the engine block quite near to the place were IMS pinion wheels are located.
Can it be IMS bearing failure? There has been no noise from the bearings earlier on! But just before the oil game out, the was a sound like empty beer can has been dragged underneat the car...
Car has been driven only 118.000 km.
All ideas and tips are valuable!
Pictures are attached:

Something blew a hole near one of the chains. Pull the oil filter and look at it, if it is full of metal, drop the sump cover; if that is also full of metal, the engine needs to come out and apart regardless of what has failed.

Because there is a hole in the engine block the engine has to be pulled anyway. ;)

Can be cause by a broken chain ramp. Don't think it will be caused by an IMS failure, because normally this won't break the engine housing.

Regards from germany
Markus

Looks like something got caught in the chain at least momentarily and the chain bashed the piece of block out. Broken piece of chain ramp maybe.

At this point, the engine has to come out and be replaced.

You'll have to decide if you want to spend the time (and or $$) to have the engine disassembled to find the cause.

When I had my last engine failure, I simply bought a used/salvage long block, had all of the ancillary components swapped over, and had it re-installed. $4K out the door including the long block. You just have to find a shop that is willing to do the work for a reasonable rate rather than gouge customers to pay off their summer vacation homes. :)

Thanks for your replies.
I am on my way to the garage to first of all check the oil filter and possible the oil sump as well. Just to check if there is a lot of metal particles, maybe evidencing the IMS failure...?
Most probably I will open the engine and check if it is still worth to get it fixed....
Buying replacement engine that I don't know, does't sound like to good idea at this point. However, it might be the only option....
Let's see.

Took the oil filter out and drained rest of the oil out as well.
Very little dust type of metal in filter housing. Like very small pieces of chrome cover...? Did not remove oil sump cover yet, but no metallic particles game out with the oil. Will let it drain completely first before removing sump cover.

So still no clear picture what has caused the damage.
But obviously engine need to be put in pieces....
Can it be rebuild, or do I need a replacement, I don't know?
Engine housing should be possible to weld and fix, but what other damages there might be inside....

All ideas are very much welcome!

That some bad luck. Sorry for your loss

Something similar happened to one of our 996 brothers
Something got under the chain and punched a hole in the bottom of the engine
At the end of the day, he put in a used engine
#$@! Blew my engine today #&*#@! - Rennlist Discussion Forums

Raby may be interested in buying your engine

Compared to swapping in a salvage or replacement engine, it will cost more to tear down the original engine, find the cause, find the collateral damage, clean everything, repair the engine case, replace the damaged parts, replace a number of parts "while you're in there", and re-assemble.

But at the end of the day, its your money and if you want a rebuild, it can be certainly be done. It just won't be the least expensive path to getting the car back on the road.

I still don't understand how it can be more expensive to repair the faulty engine that to buy a replacement engine?
Repair work I can carry out myself, so only parts needed to buy (+ maybe some special tools).
Replacement engines are not that cheap, not at least here in Finland....
Probably thing are different in US.

Cheap rebuilds seem cheaper than a repair... Till you have to repair the cheap rebuild.

I have shipped a few engines by FedEx, 1 to Iceland, but I have no idea about the cost! :eek:

Would that that were true.

JFP posted on another forum a quote for a short block from Porsche for a 13 year old Boxster and it was twice what a similar car might have sold for in good running and cosmetic condition.

My only experience replacing an engine was for a Chrysler/Mitsubishi product where the rebuilt engine lasted only one trip or 2k miles.

There are good rebuilds and there are cheap rebuilds and there are blocks where parts have been replaced with improved versions.

They all cost differently.

Before you start any rebuild or repair i would recommend to check out what happend to the engine and what opitions are offered in Finland and how much it will cost in the end. Don't hurry. Do a good research.

Over here in Germany the OEM Porsche engine blocks are cheaper now than a few years ago. So in some caess it's better to use a new OEM block now.

Good luck and regards from Germany
Markus

Mike is spot on; recent quotes on M96 factory remain short blocks have been in the high twenty to low thirty thousand dollars (US). And that is just for the short block, no cylinder heads, and the reman short block still has all the same limitations of the original engine.

When you start a rebuild project on one of these engines, parts prices start to add up very quickly. Let' say you damaged your crank; as no undersized bearing shells are available, you need to either repair the crank or replace it: $4K. If your block is damaged, you would have new Nickies liners installed: $5K, or you can jump for a new replacement case: $5K. And this is just the tip of the iceberg; there are a lot of "single use" fasteners in these engine's that have to be replaced, and which add up to a lot of money on just bolts (just the rod bolts alone are over $200).

To conduct a rebuild, you are going to need special tools; cam timing tools, wrist pin clip tools, cam holding tools, etc. etc. Tooling cost alone have scared off more than one individual thinking about doing their own rebuild.

I don't know if there's a Finnish eBay, but here's a fresh 2.7L on eBay.de
http://986forum.com/forums/uploads01...1438644385.jpg

Here in the US, I bought a car with collision damage and put the engine from that into my car after changing the IMS bearing, AOS, and a few other maintenance items.

Maybe the finnish Porsche club can support you with local contacts, hints or tools: http://www.porsche-club.fi

Regards
Markus

Thanks for the guidance guys. Really appreciated.
I will let the tears try first , and make a plan then how to proceed.
We are heading towards autumn/winter time in Finland anyway. Plan was to keep the Boxster in my garage over winter period anyway. Now the winter break just unfortunately started bit too early....

But honestly speaking I am that much of an engineer, that I will need to open up the damaged engine just to check what is wrong with it, and if I can fix it myself....

Found already some interesting refurbished replacement engines from ebay.co.uk.
With reasonable prices....

So lets see what will happen.

Just cover the hole with some JB-Weld epoxy and run it for the rest of the sunny season. What do you have to lose... :eek:

(Just kidding)

If you do take on the job of rebuilding it There's lots of info here and elsewhere along with some good videos. I learned quite a bit by just taking apart my bad engine.
This thread is good reading if you haven't already seen it:
http://986forum.com/forums/diy-project-guides/54170-my-diy-engine-rebuild.html

Just update those who might be interested.
I have finally teared the engine into pieces after few months sorrow time…
As assumed, original problem was failed IMS-bearing causing main chain (between crankshaft and intermediate shaft) tension blade to break (see enclosed pictures). Loose piece of the tension blade went in between IMS sprocket and engine block punching a hole in the block as sown before.
Had some luck also, since even timing had slipped on both cylinder blocks, and all exhaust valves had touched piston heads, there was only one visually bent exhaust valve. Took the cylinder heads to local workshop for checking, and they discovered that totally 5 exhaust valves need to be replaced. But not so bad (only 5 out of 12) what it could have been.
Decided to replace all moving parts inside the engine since it is in pieces. So I have ordered: both cam chains, main chain, all support and tension blades for the chains, main bearings for crank shaft, piston rod bearings, all AOS units (3 pieces), pressure bearing for clutch, ceramic IMS-bearing, full set of gaskets, etc.
Have already sent about 2800 EUR for the parts. I could have done it cheaper of course, by replacing necessary part only, but on the other hand now it will be equal to new engine (more or less) and since it was in pieces…
Still cheaper option than replacement engine. I checked prices for replacement engines as well. Engine from collision car with only 3 months warranty, driven about 100 tkm, was about 3400 EUR + new IMS-bearing = 4000 EUR. Rebuild engine with new piston rings, bearing, AOS, etc. with 1 year warranty was about 5500 EUR (old engine needed for exchange).
Hole in the engine block was welded in one of the local workshops. Went actually quite smoothly and looks good.
Been washing and cleaning the engine parts while been waiting for the ordered parts. For example most of the hydraulic lifters (or tappets) were jammed. So I needed to dismantle (not an easy task…) them and clean them properly. I hoped that I have not saved in wrong place with the hydraulic lifters??? I mean not replacing them???
Been manufacturing some special tools myself, and still need to some for piston installation. So far I have not purchased any special tools, but some normal ones available in local tools shop.
I have also bought quite many instruction books and work shop manuals.
Been very interesting project. I still have a goal to get it done before 1st of May (that is normally when the summer or spring at least starts here in Finland). I took me about one month to remove the engine from the car and dismantle it (working evening and weekends) so I am assuming that it will take maybe about two months to put it back together (more time needed for reading instructions and checking things).
So wish me luck and Happy New year to all of You 
PS. I have a lot of pictures available of the project if somebody is interested to see them.

All of the lifters and the lifter carrier should be replaced if you want 100% reliability - especially if there was enough debris in the oil to cause the lifters to jam up.

While it is common to clean them up/re-use and take your chances, this practice is what caused my repeat engine failure after a full rebuild when the used lifters and used lifter carrier failed within several hundred miles after the rebuild.

Best of luck with the rebuild and keep us up to date on your progress!

Well done sir, for taking this project on. I/We look forward to learning from your experience. I have had 6 or 7 mid 60's VW engines in pieces in my lap before, but I am not sure about these engines. Please keep us in the loop, as you can.

What has been your biggest struggle/challenge so far?

How close to scrapping the car did you get? Or were you always going to fix it?

Best of Luck and of the New Year

I can not think what could be wrong with the lifters if I have teared them in pieces (really all parts apart) and cleaned them properly with diesel oil first and then with ultrasound washer.
After that I have sinked them into motor oil. They will be stored in there until I will assembly them again.
But if there is any doubt that I should replace them, then I will do it for sure?
Additional cost will be only about 10 EUR / pc, so 240 EUR totally.

Thanks for your interest and support :)

There has not been that difficult parts work wise (not so far), but it has been more difficult to decide in where to draw the line, meaning what parts to replace and what to use from old.

Looking for correct work shop manuals and instruction has not been that easy either.

For sure there will be some challenge when I will start to put it together again, but we take them as they come :)

Scrapping the car was never real option, although seriously considered :)
But replacement engine was a serious one.
Main reason being, that I just managed to enjoy the car for 2 months before it broke down.... (bought is end of May and it broke down beginning of August)

Honestly speaking, I have never rebuilt Porsche engine before. Motorcycle engines alone and some smalled car engines together with my father.
But they are man made machines not created by God, so common sense will take you far :)

I am still thinkin about the hydraulic lifters. There was no metallic particles inside when I opened them. Just old tar type of oil...

Don't know if that was the reason why they had jammed?

Read also from somewhere that there has been some type fault in the original lifters (part no 996 105 041 50) and therefore they have been replacesed with new model (part no 996.... 72).

So I am just wondering if cleaning will do the job, or if I have to seriously concider replacement???

I just saw your tear down pics. Damn. You might be able to save the crank shaft and bearing carrier. Have it all ultrasonically cleaned and the crank checked for straightness and magnafluxed.
That IMS is garbage.

You're right, the toughest part is deciding what you can reuse.

Were any rod bearings spun or have you torn it down that far yet? Don't forget to order the tiny oil nozzles that go in the bearing carrier.

Hi sepesusi63,

first thanks for the update. Think you're right with your diagnosis - first ims failure and than failed all other things.

Hope you can get everything cleaned up. Sometimes it's hard to get all debree out of the engine. I recommend to clean everything really really careful.

Hydraulic lifters: to be honest - i would recommend to replace them all.

You didn't mention the chain tensioners in your listing. I would also recommend to replace them all.

Also i would recommend to replace piston rings and crankshaft bearing shells and inspect the cylinder liners carefully.

Because the engine and gear box is out of the Box check the 2 mass fly wheel.

Regards from Germany
Markus

Sorry to hear about your loss.

Can you tell us if this was the original IMS bearing which failed or was it replaced at some point?

Best wishes to you on getting it back together and running reliably.

Good luck.

Hi Markus,
Thanks for yoyr feedback.
Everything cleaned (2 or 3 times :) ) and all wearing and moving parts replaced, including piston rings, bearings, chain tensioners and also hydraulic lifters (after reconsideration), etc.
Finally got the full gasket set from UK this week. So now I can really start the assemply with full swing :)
Desided to try ceramic IMS bearing from Germany (FVD Online Shop - FVD10590103 - Intermediate Shaft (IMS) Repair Kit "M96.Single Row" Ceramic -). Let's how it will work, but looks great at least.
Now going back to my garage again :)

Hi,
Yes it was the original IMS bearing that failed.
Car has got about 118.000 km on clock.
Probably bearing has been gone already for a while, but it was only now when the main chain tensioner got cut causing the visual damage.
I bought the car only 2 months before. Last service was done at 110.353 km in Porsceh Shor in Germany, so I desided to change the oil only when I will but the car for winter storage. Well, I did not reach that point, since the engine failed by beginnming of August last year.
This is just to explain why I did not notice the "failing IMS bearing " symptoms in advance!

All of the bearings were in good condition. Same as the piston rings.
But still I desided to change them all. Just because the engine is open.