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-   -   Maintenance Costs Insane? (http://986forum.com/forums/performance-technical-chat/36618-maintenance-costs-insane.html)

FirstPorscheAt18 08-01-2012 05:12 PM

Maintenance Costs Insane?
 
I've had my 02 boxster for less than a year so far and I've had to spend ridiculous amounts of money repairing it/fixing it up. Some were cosmetic choices and some were necessary but I've spent like, half the worth of the actual vehicle on this.

Every time I bring it in for a repair, I say to myself: "I've already put so much time money and effort into this car, it's probably fine for a while now" but then a couple of months later something goes wrong. Not to mention it's impractical as my daily driver in many situations. I drive a lot of miles and this car is relatively expensive to maintain.

At this point I'm considering selling it. What are your experiences with maintenance, is it worth it or should I sell it? Though I love my Boxster, it's a major source of stress in my life.

Topless 08-01-2012 05:25 PM

A ton of threads already on this. Plan to spend $2k/yr on general maintenance, plus any mods or major work:
986 Forum - for Porsche Boxster Owners and Others - Search Results

A Porsche is not for everyone. :)

FirstPorscheAt18 08-01-2012 05:32 PM

2k would be absolutely acceptable compared to what I've spent this year. Did I just get unlucky, or...?

Eric G 08-01-2012 05:50 PM

I have close to 10K in parts already on a rebuild...but the reason I own the car is because it is a passion. If you own a Porsche, you buy into a process and that process is up keep. There is the old saying, you have to pay to play and this car is one of those toys that you can piece meal or just bite the bullet and fix it all.

Good luck on what ever you decide!

Topless 08-01-2012 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FirstPorscheAt18 (Post 299969)
2k would be absolutely acceptable compared to what I've spent this year. Did I just get unlucky, or...?

Sheesh,
I spend $2k just on brakes every year. Another $3-4k on tires but my car is a little "different". I am looking forward to spending $1500 this week for a sweet new top with glass window to replace my 14 yr old top with worn out plastic window. Last year I did full suspension, replacement trans, IMS, clutch, FW, water pump, tstat, wheel bearings... About $9k for all. My wife says spending money on my car beats chasing loose women. I agree. :D

MConte05 08-01-2012 06:09 PM

How much did you spend on labor?

I imagine if I paid someone else to do the work I've done to my car I'd be out half the money I paid for the car in the first place. But instead I am only out about $1000 in parts I have bought and installed/replaced.

tonycarreon 08-01-2012 06:13 PM

$6,400 in 3 years / 37k miles (purchased at 65k miles). includes 1 set of tires. brakes and GAHH top.

major items were the alternator, water pump, engine mount, cv boots, strut mount, lower control arm, AOS, reservoir tank.

tnoice 08-01-2012 06:19 PM

Factor in depreciation, and it is even more depressing.

However, if one is able to do most of the maintance themselves, the Boxster has been no more expensive than our Fj Cruiser or Acura Tl.

ekam 08-01-2012 07:15 PM

$2k is nothing when big items like IMS retrofit, clutch, tires come into play...

I paid $800 for 2 tires just last week and I change the oil myself.

ekam 08-01-2012 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FirstPorscheAt18 (Post 299961)
but I've spent like, half the worth of the actual vehicle on this.

People need to realize that the value of the vehicle has no correlation to the cost of repairs...

Old BMW 7-series or Benz S-class cost next to nothing to buy compare to when they were brand new... why do you think they're so cheap to buy used?? :confused::confused::confused:

recycledsixtie 08-01-2012 10:35 PM

You did not say how many miles on it. If you said 100k miles then I would understand that parts wear out and need to be replaced. If it did have this kind of mileage then u should have got the Boxster cheap?
It depends as the above poster says about how passionate u are about this car. If you are passionate about it like I am I am prepared to put around $2k a year into it . So far in one year had cv joints done, oil change but this car is making me more resourceful and I am looking at doing more work myself - see Wayne of Pelican fame 101 Jobs on the Porsche Boxster u can do yourself. If I took my Box to my indy garage and said what do I need - they would have a hayday. I don't do that unless there is something serious that I can't handle. Anyway get advice, get 2nd opinions on major work to be done.

recycledsixtie 08-01-2012 10:50 PM

One more thing to add. The more miles u drive the more wear u get on the car and its components = more $$. If it is a major stress in your life as regards high maintenance costs, then u most do something to reduce the stress. See my other post. Hope this helps!

Ghostrider 310 08-01-2012 10:59 PM

Another thing to remember is that all cars are expensive to repair, sure the Boxster is higher but domestics are not cheap to fix either, nothing is.

Bruce Wayne 08-02-2012 12:59 AM

the question i have to ask, is what kind of failures / repairs have you undertaken?

it's worthwhile for anybody when looking for a boxster (or any car) to look at the maintenance of the vehicle..

a good well maintained example will, or should be, in the upper ends of value, however, there are many other sellers who one box for sale and thing that theirs is worth the same or more.

a friend o fmine was recently looking for a boxster, he saw mine, i took him for a drive and he was sold on getting a 3.2.. he send me loads of examples being advertised and from the pictures alone could start to discount cars that were applicable to him.. some had hacked about interiors after market speaker pods in the doors, shredded no-make tyres, run out brakes, chopped about roofs, unkempt cars that sellers were asking 'top dollar' for..

A car that has had the money spent on it and been looked after meticulously is worth more than one that has not, but you will get sellers trying to push a car that needs money spent on it for 'top dollar'.

as the saying goes, there is no such thing as a cheap porsche.

but back to the orginial question, what kind of failures/repairs have you had? there are many good porsche minds on this forum that will likely be able to determine if you should change it for another one, keep it and stick with it, change your driving style or change your spanner turner..

truegearhead 08-02-2012 04:12 AM

I've spent around $4,000 on mine this year, with the BMW's I've had I normally spend about $1,000/year. The thing about these cars is when they need maintenance its normally because they're broken down or will very soon. With BMWs its mostly "I really need to get around to replacing that" repairs if that makes since.

Johnny Danger 08-02-2012 05:20 AM

What year, mileage, condition ect ...?

jb92563 08-02-2012 06:48 AM

I think that owning a Porsche is more like a hobby for enthusiasts and as such you are willing to spend more to get the enjoyment out of it.

I also fly aircraft as a hobby and if you think Porsche parts are expensive then take a look at aircraft parts....yikes! I pay $39 each for aircraft spark plugs that go into what is essentially a VW engine rebranded with a few upgrades.

Wrenching on the car yourself can probably save you 50% off the costs since labor usually costs as much or more than the part. Enthusiasts enjoy working on their cars and hence no complaints there.

If its your second car then working on it in the garage for as long as it takes is not a problem so you fix it at your own pace and as you budget can afford.

I have observed there are 3 types of Porsche owners;

Those that just want to drive a nice prestigious car and appreciate the features of a Porsche but let the shop take care of problems. They need to be a little more affluent to afford the shop rates.

There are the Hobbyists/Enthusiasts that just love the car and enjoy doing some if not all work on it themselves and its typically a second car for them. Its the lowest cost way of owning/maintaining a Porsche but they tend to compensate by constant tinkering and "Improvements" which usually cost $$$.

There are the Racers who either work on the car themselves or have mechanics at their disposal that know how to tune for racing. Its the most expensive way to own a Porsche and its accepted as the price to race.

You will find a lot of Hobby and Racing Enthusiasts on these forums and they will typically help each other out and like socializing.

Now ask yourself what is your motivation of owning a Porsche and as you can see there are cheaper and more expensive ways of owning a Porsche, so perhaps you need to learn how to wrench on your car yourself or get a higher paying job.

It does sound like you have had an inordinately high amount of repairs though and I would think that it should taper off as many things get replaced.
Learning to wrench on your own car also equips you to determine whether your mechanic is simply draining your wallet or doing essential repairs.

I learned with aircraft maintenance that there are those repairs that contribute to the reliability of essential systems and some that are nice to do but will take money away from the really critical areas. You learn to pick and choose your maintenance items and acceptable tolerances accordingly.

mikefocke 08-02-2012 07:03 AM

I owned a Boxster (2 of them) over 6 years and aside from the expense of the tires (going highest priced was my choice and not necessary) my expenses were much less than owning a Hoda and an Acura over the same period. It was my daily driver for all but the snow days (and I did sneak out on some of them..I recall scraping 8 inches of snow off the car cover just so I could take it out as soon as the roads were ice free).

Others have had less happy experiences.

I attribute mine to several items: good luck buying and a good PPI. A great mechanic who took care of all the potential issues via a 60k service plus I had at about 42k just after I bought it. And thereafter, I did some of my own work, did some via cheaper mechanics (O2 sensor change at a muffler shop, for example...oil changes at a quick change place with me bringing the parts and oil), used original equipment parts and independent mechanics where needed (and it wasn't needed even once a year on average).

stephen wilson 08-02-2012 08:39 AM

In looking at your older posts, it seems that most of your expenses were self-inflicted.

The Radium King 08-02-2012 08:39 AM

i've found a new way that the mechanics get you as well. i needed to replace the oil filler tube. very simple job - two spring clamps; 1/2 hour work max. unfortunately, one of these clamps is completely unaccessible to pliers or normal spring clamp tools; a special cable-operated spring clamp tool is needed. i didn't have this tool, none of the local parts suppliers had this tool, and ordering one would not have got it to me in a timely manner. so, quick trip to the local indie mechanic. confirm - does he have the tool - yes. right on, have at 'er.

job complete 3 hours later!!! why? because the porsche maintenance manual that he was using stated that, to change the fill tube, the entire oil fill/coolant tank apparatus had to be removed from the rear trunk. instead of reaching in and releasing the clamp, he disassembled half my car. what can i say - he was following the manual. these guys are porsche specialists, but obviously not m96/97 specialists. all my fault, i understand that, but will never use european specialty in nanaimo again regardless.

lesson - do it yourself. it will cost you as much or more initially because you have to buy all the tools needed, but at least you get to keep the tools when you are done.

Ghostrider 310 08-02-2012 08:53 AM

I'll bet I know why they tell you to disassemble the oil system, that oil tube and it's associated connectors are made of legendary Porsche polymers. You get one chance to seat it right, get it wrong and the chinzy clip disintegrates in your hand. Beyond that, the tolerances are such that installing it is not anywhere as simple as it should be, I found myself longing for a flexible tube and some hose clamps!! I did not encounter any special clips that could not be taken apart by hand. The issue I had was the piece is easier to service from the top and bottom so you have to access it from two service points.

Joel-Box-ster 08-02-2012 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FirstPorscheAt18 (Post 299961)
or should I sell it? Though I love my Boxster,

Keep your Boxster and get yourself a reliable used daily driver. ;)

ProjectM96 08-02-2012 11:55 AM

I spent an average of $90 per month for car repairs, maintenance, and modifications for the past 20 months I have owned the car.

Coffinhunter 08-02-2012 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ProjectM96 (Post 300060)
I spent an average of $90 per month for car repairs, maintenance, and modifications for the past 20 months I have owned the car.

I think you should take modifications out of that equation, as that is not a true cost of ownership.

I have found through the combination of my brief ownership, and my father in law who bought it new and kept all records, the cost has been not much more than most other cars. Sure each part is more expensive, but they also seem to last longer. Oil changes are more, but factor that over 15,000 miles as opposed to every3,000 miles (just using manufacture recommendations) and it is about even, if not less.

:cheers:

ekam 08-02-2012 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coffinhunter (Post 300062)
Oil changes are more, but factor that over 15,000 miles as opposed to every3,000 miles (just using manufacture recommendations) and it is about even, if not less.

:cheers:

Umm... most people do it at every 6k miles...

mikefocke 08-02-2012 12:30 PM

OTOH, I had an occasion to replace an O2 sensor the same week on a Honda CRV and my Boxster.

The cost to have a muffler shop do the labor was the same.

The cost of the part was more for the Honda branded part than the Porsche branded part.

The cost for the part from the manufacturer who supplied the part to Honda was more than the cost for the part from the manufacturer who supplied the part to Porsche.

Result was about $100 difference in favor of the Porsche.

Tires (best available Michelins) were $700 for the CRV, $1100 for the Boxster. Only real difference in 5-6 years and it was something I could have avoided by buying a different brand of tire for the Boxster.

But maybe one reason I had such a good history of low maintenance costs was because I didn't try to spare the maintenance. I did it early and often in the case of oil changes. Use OEM parts, yes. Use my labor (very unskilled) or low cost labor (yes). But when it took someone with specific knowledge of a Boxster, I went to the best and only paid once.

ltusler 08-02-2012 02:24 PM

Its simple: Don't do the math!

doragman 08-02-2012 04:26 PM

agree - my head hurts when I do that

ekam 08-02-2012 07:37 PM

And how many times do we read from these "catch and release" owners that "oh my boxster is so expensive to fix, maybe I should get rid of it."

The car gets passed to a new owner who neglect to fix it too and pass it to the next guy who thinks he got a deal on a porsche, then the next guy...

It goes on and on. I'm thankful that I got mine from the original owner with all the paperwork.

Is that kind of like buying a house with $0 down? You mean you actually have to afford the payments? No wonder our society is going downhill fast...

986_inquiry 08-02-2012 09:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Topless (Post 299967)
A ton of threads already on this. Plan to spend $2k/yr on general maintenance, plus any mods or major work:
986 Forum - for Porsche Boxster Owners and Others - Search Results

A Porsche is not for everyone. :)

$2,000 a year? i read set aside $200-$300 a month, $2400-$3600 a year roughly, for a out-of-warranty boxster

That's just... what you do. Like, buying a dog dog food, that's just what you do when you have a dog.

If someone don't like it, don't get a dog. Or a Porsche.

recycledsixtie 08-02-2012 09:21 PM

If you can't afford a Porsche you should not even consider it. First rule is if you buy a 2nd hand Porsche pay cash for it. Because if it is out of Porsche warranty, then you need more $$$ to fix it (or less $$ to fix it yourself). It is easy to get underwater with these cars particularly if you get a car with problems. A PPI should be mandatory unless you think you know lots about Porsches.I love my P car and did lots of research before I bought it. Information is $$$$ saved. This car is not a Miata costwise. But is way more fun.

Ghostrider 310 08-03-2012 01:34 AM

Since a high school friend passed last week at 53 of cancer, lest us not forget that we spend a long time in the dirt. Recently, I received digits from someone I was keenly interested in who now appears to be married. Point of both short stories? I'd rather spend my fought for wealth on myself than someone with questionable honor and before I'm too old to enjoy having piled it up.

Coffinhunter 08-03-2012 03:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ekam (Post 300064)
Umm... most people do it at every 6k miles...

Not being a smart @$$, really.

Why do "most" people do it at 6k? The manufacturers recommendation is 12K. (I mistyped 15k in original post:o ) Unless you are only putting 6k in the 2 year time frame, or driving hard/tracking the car, why that often?

Ghostrider 310 08-03-2012 04:10 AM

Because at the end of the day you are still recycling the same oil regardless of how great a spin converter might be. Other than gas it's the cheapest thing you will put in your car and truly cheap insurance against crankcase buildup and oil break down.

ekam 08-03-2012 06:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coffinhunter (Post 300134)
Not being a smart @$$, really.

Why do "most" people do it at 6k? The manufacturers recommendation is 12K. (I mistyped 15k in original post:o ) Unless you are only putting 6k in the 2 year time frame, or driving hard/tracking the car, why that often?

http://www.lnengineering.com/oil.html

The manufacturer also recommends using only N-rated tires and nothing but Mobil1 0W40 oil... do you follow both of these recommendations as well?

Topless 08-03-2012 07:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coffinhunter (Post 300134)
Not being a smart @$$, really.

Why do "most" people do it at 6k? The manufacturers recommendation is 12K. (I mistyped 15k in original post:o ) Unless you are only putting 6k in the 2 year time frame, or driving hard/tracking the car, why that often?

Fuel and water contamination causes premature IMS failure. Changing every 5k is just good preventative maintenance. Ultimately it is your car and your $$ so each driver must choose the best interval for you. I change mine every 3k but my car is "special". :)

Coffinhunter 08-03-2012 08:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ekam (Post 300161)
Oils: What motor oil should I use? Which oil is best for my Porsche or aircooled engine?

The manufacturer also recommends using only N-rated tires and nothing but Mobil1 0W40 oil... do you follow both of these recommendations as well?

Not really the same thing.....but I get your point.

Of course I do use Mobil 1..... did before I got a Porsche.

None of this really answers my question though. One of the "advantages" of running a synthetic oil is that you should be able to go longer between oil changes. I run synthetics in my other vehicles and change the oil every 5 or 6k. 140k later and still no problems. Those cars don't have the 9 quart capacity the Boxster does, nor the "technological advances" of the car.

I am not trying to argue at all, just learn about the car that I have "owned" for a whole 4 weeks.

Thanks

ekam 08-03-2012 09:05 AM

From the link:

"On newer water-cooled Porsche engines where Mobil 1 0w40 is recommended, a simple change to an oil with CJ-4 rating or preferably an oil with SL or CI-4 rating as well as a viscosity of 5w40 rather than 0w40 are two changes that can be done in addition to more frequent oil changes to ensure longevity of newer engines."

"Failure to use the right oil, use proper filtration, or observe proper changing intervals can affect the performance of even the best motor oil. It is also worth noting that some manufacturers have gone to shorter intervals and requiring fully synthetic oils (Group 4 or 5) due to litigation surrounding sludge formation and failed engines as a result of factory recommended long drain intervals, so drain interval recommendations are often in a state of flux. Based off of extremely long drain intervals recommended by most European manufacturers, some in excess of 30,000 mi at some point in recent history. Most users have found it best to reduce those intervals by half or even a quarter. Porsche over the last decade has had intervals ranging from 12,000 to 24,000 miles and up to 2 years. Based on UOAs provided to us by our customers, new Porsche owners should consider reducing their drain intervals to no more than six months or 5,000 mi. On newer water cooled models prone to IMS failures, some shops even recommend changing your oil every three months or 3,000 mi allowing for early detection of a failing IMS bearing. Also, remember, Porsche drain intervals are based off a fill of min. 10 quarts, so engines with smaller sumps have to run shorter drain intervals! Cars that have less oil volume can benefit from more frequent oil changes."

Wayne, the owner of this forum and PelicanParts, also recommends changing every 5k miles.

http://www.pelicanparts.com/techarticles/box_oil_change/box_oil_change.htm

Coffinhunter 08-03-2012 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ekam (Post 300187)
From the link:

Now that's an explination I understand! Thanks. I'm a little thick sometimes, especially when I THINK I understand something.:D


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