IMS Guardian
 

I just had the IMS Guardian installed on my car, I felt it was a better out lay of money than a IMS retrofit at this time. I was wondering if there was a lot of other Porsche owners going this route. I feel really great about having it installed and when they installed the guardian, they found that the oil pick up tube had silicone up against the mesh from the orginal engine build, Jake said it probably wouldn't have made it through the summer. It gives me a lot of peace of mind to know that I have something to protect my engine from failure.

This was Travis' pick up tube.. This is the reason why a sump inspection is so important when installing the IMS Guardian.

About twice this much more sealant was laying in the sump plate and if it would have been drawn into the oil pick up tube the engine would have had the oil supply diminished far enough to lead to oil starvation.

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Where is this sealant used?

This sealant was used in numerous places on the engine. This can be made worse if someone does a cam cover or sump plate job and uses the wrong sealant or too much sealant.
The sump and cam covers on this engine are OEM and have never been resealed. I have been seeing this for years, and have seen some engines fail from this alone, especially on the track where oil starvation is always a concern, even if the oil pick up tube isn't blocked.

I am with u 100% . I have had my IMS guardian installed about 4 months ago and I don't really worry about the IMS anymore. My 2001 Boxster base had less than 40k miles on it when I bought it a year ago. I don't really like to spend $$$ on my Box unless I have to. A couple years from now I might need a clutch job and then I will get the IMS replaced. In the meantime I enjoy the ride.:):)

your car had worms!

IMS Guardian
 

That is exactly what went through my mind. that and Holy Crap!!!

Ivermectin will fix that right up!

Had a similar experience last weekend when I installed my IMS guardian, not as bad as Travis though . When photo was taken some of the " worms" already had left the filter
Can only recommend everyone to lower the sump next oilchange. Guess it adds an hour or so. Wellspent time.

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Sorry to sidetrack this thread but... what torque setting is everyone using for the sump bolts?

Oil sump bolts should be torqued to 7.5 ft-lbs or 10NM. (yes, somewhat light).

I have dropped my sump and found nothing just wondering if this sealant would be a one time accumulation or can it appear later in the engines life....

So, how much sealant is too much and what would be the right way to seal? I did the guardian and used Loctite 590 around the outer edges of the plate. About 1 mm or so think. Did notice they squeezed out when torqued but have been concerned some may have made squeezed into the inside.

A very small bead is all that is required, too much and you get the squeeze out that causes problems...........


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But, I don't get the point in putting a small bead. Shouldn't the seal be all around the joint and not just a few beads in a few places?

Anticipating the squeeze out I put the seal on the outer most edge of the bottom pan. I let it dry for over a day. Still the possibility of an issue?

The bead needs to be small and continuous; it should also go around the bolt holes to prevent seepage at the bolt heads, which is a fairly common issue. The two mating surfaces are both machined true, so very little sealant is needed. Most DIY projects use way too much sealant, and end up causing more problems, much like Jake pictured above. This is also a major factor in why the green cam plugs blow out after a DIY reseal on the cam covers; squeezed out sealant blocking the oil returns. For some reason, when it comes to sealant applications, everyone seems to think that "if one is good, and two is better; then forty seven must be just right". It isn't. Use the 5900 sparingly………..

Thanks for advice. I don't think I used it too much and was aware it might b an issue as I saw some sealant around the baffles on the sump plate. I'll have to remove the plate during the next oil change and inspect to be sure. I plan to do that in 1k as I just did the bearing change and IMSG.

I'm a little sceptical that the IMS Guardian will give enough, or any advance notice of an IMS failure.

Seems that the Guardian needs to have metal bridging the two magnetic contacts
to trip the alarm but in my reading of all the reported failures the bearing disintegrated rapidly with little or no other audible symptoms.

Perhaps if enough small shards of the bearing cage came off over time, some pieces might bridge the contacts and stick to the magnets in theory.

Bigger pieces and bearing balls might settle elsewhere and never make it past the Guardian to get captured by its magnets.

I suppose an acumulation of finer particles might form a bridge as captured by the magnets over time if the failure is a slow progressive deterioration.

Seems like you might only be getting a marginal improved chance of catching a failure in progress.

I think the guardian may produce a false sense of security rather than a reliable method of IMS failure avoidance.

I think the money is better spent simply replacing the bearing since it might only cost you another $700 to actually remedy the problem entirely.

I expect when that Guardian does Alert, I would think you best stop immediately and get a tow to your garage (say $200 or more). Then a diagnosis, $200+, so now we are talking only $300 more to make a schduled garage appointment rather than driving till it nearly fails and being stuck out somewhere.

Its just my opinion of course but I have not seen statistics showing how many Guardians out there total, how many grenaded engines that had a Guardian but could not Alert in time to avoid the failure, and how many have Alerted and saved an engine.

Are there numbers to back up the performance of the Guardian?

If you had ever seen an M96 that was "caught" just as the IMS was near death, but had not totally failed yet, you would be appalled by the amounts of ferrous debris found in the sump and oil filter. These things start grinding themselves to death long before the timing jumps, so there is more than enough metal to trip the sensor.

You might want to refer your question on "numbers" to Jake at Flat Six, they are the ones that "get the call" when these things go into alert, so he would be the one to best address that.

This was the source of engine failure in my friend's spec boxster. This can happen at ANY time - you can check the oil pickup today and have this happen next month. No telling when the sealant is going to come off.

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It can appear at any time. There is no way to know when the excess sealant will pull off.

I went a different route. I'm sporting an Anti-IMS Voodoo T-shirt, seems to be working very well so far.
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y17...2at73422AM.png

Matt:
That shirt only works for GT3 and 996/997 TT owners ;). BTW, don't forget about nelsons in Mid-july.

Also there is a low cost version of the guardian coming out in a few months.


The Guardian doesn't protect your engine from failure, just gives you a much better chance of only having to do the IMS and oil pan cleaning because you detected the failure early so you probably won't have to pay the big $ for an engine rebuild.

With the Guardian, you can still have an IMS bearing failure...it doesn't reduce the chance a bit.

Chip detectors have been widely used in aerospace applications where advanced warning of an impending failure is a matter of life or death; you can't just pull over.

Since their use was maintained, I would think there has been sufficient lead time to failure experience for the concept....saving man and machine.

Absolutely agree. If this were a method that somehow just detected impending failure of the IMS alone, I would agree with the above post that just putting in the ceramic/hardened replacement bearing makes more financial sense, and I argued this point before Jake expained the operation of the device.

However, now that we understand that it's a steel debris detection device, which can warn of any number of potential engine health issues, I'm totally on board. In fact, this should be a device on EVERY car. Flat-6 should work on wider marketing, IMO, it could be his retirement ticket.

Done. The IMSG Jr. is actually the Porsche version of the "Engine Guardian" that is being marketed for many other cars and fleet vehicles. The application is not just engines, but also gearboxes and rear gear applications.

The universal version literally plugs directly into the dash, requires no wiring other than a single wire to the MCD sensor and can go into anything. Our "Jr." set up hasn't taken so long to design just for the Porsche application, a lot of that time was spent making the system fit anything and everything with nothing more than an application specific drain plug being necessary.

Shouldn't there be a class action suit against Porsche on this IMS failure or report to NHSTA? If they got excited about Lexus floormats, can yyou imagine what would happen on this? LOL

MCD Sensor? What is MCD?

Magnetic Chip Detector- MCD is the acronym for the term that is most used in the aviation world for these sensors.

Thanks Jake ... added MCD to the acronyms list I maintain here.

Jake, can you help with statistics on the Guardian?

How many sold
How many engine saves
How many that could not save the engine in time.

Trying to decide whether I should put one in or wait for a 60K service in another
10K miles and just do the LN Bearing.

Love your acronyms list!
Thanks for it.

i am not familiar with the guardian system, but having been an aviation mechanic (helicopter) for 8 years, I know the effectiveness of a chip detector. it is mandatory on all the gearboxes and engines I worked on in the army. it saves lives and the equipment. also there was an extensive oil testing program for the detection of non ferrous metals. the fact there is an available chip detector, is a great preventative measure to avoid catastrophic engine failure. anyone who has a link to the various systems available, please post it. I am new to the Porsche community, but have been known to play with my toys, and push systems to failure once or twice before.

thanx,
ron

Here is the link:

IMS Guardian

I ordered mine within days of getting of a Boxster. Waiting on delivery and then doing the install myself.

I believe this is Loctite 5900 - correction for making this thread searchable in the future.

Loctite 5900 comes in 50ml and 300ml sizes (very expensive). How long will the 300ml last after it's opened?

Are any of the Permatex black RTV products a suitable equivalent?