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-   -   3.4L Motor Swap Underway! (http://986forum.com/forums/performance-technical-chat/26065-3-4l-motor-swap-underway.html)

insite 11-30-2010 08:41 AM

so, the engine is in the car. i popped it in & installed the clutch & LWFW and a new RMS.


http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t...1/_MG_8077.jpg




http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t...1/_MG_8086.jpg




http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t...1/_MG_8080.jpg




i rotated up the resonance tube to get the valve as high as possible. this is REQUIRED to make room for the air conditioning lines. it was a total pain in the a$$ to get the AC compressor back in. that, and it's making a little noise now, like it's not aligned properly.....


http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t...1/_MG_8082.jpg


http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t...1/_MG_8081.jpg


http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t...1/_MG_8084.jpg





i popped the tranny in:

http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t...1/_MG_8090.jpg



along with some new transmission mounts from a 993 w/ some spacers installed to lower the transmission:

http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t...1/_MG_8089.jpg


i had THREE issues with the transmission mounts. first, i tried to use 1" spacers; they don't fit on the trans mounts. then, i cut them to 5/8". everything SEEMED fine, except the stud protrusions from the motor mounts were a little long; they hit the subframe:

http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t...1/_MG_8091.jpg


i cut off the studs below the nut. again, everything seemed fine. when i went to install the big crossmember that connects the subframes, it hit the transmission. looks like i'll need to cut antother 1/4" from the spacers. this will put them at 3/8".

insite 11-30-2010 08:57 AM

ok, so what's left?

1. cut 3/8" spacers to raise transmission above suspension crossmember
2. install suspension bits, bumper, etc
3. address apparent oil leak from cylinder 1 spark plug tube
4. drivability

this last one looks like we may have a small issue. i fired it up last night. the good news is that it started right up. the bad news is that i have a lumpy idle and a lot of smoke. it SEEMS like i have no fire in one of the cylinders. i plan on hooking up a code reader tomorrow to see what, if anything, has tripped. i'm hoping it's something simple, like a mis-connected spark plug wire or a poorly engaged coil pack.

i also seem to have a leaky spark plug tube. it's new, and so are the seals, so perhaps it's just not seated properly.....

i got a little excited toward start-up & took fewer photos than i had planned to. i will snap some more shots of the completed installation when i do some more work. until next time.......

Oaktown 986 11-30-2010 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by insite
i also seem to have a leaky spark plug tube. it's new, and so are the seals, so perhaps it's just not seated properly.....

i got a little excited toward start-up & took fewer photos than i had planned to. i will snap some more shots of the completed installation when i do some more work. until next time.......

When I put new tubes/spark plugs in, I missed about 3 proper "snaps", that could most definitely be causing a problem with oil leaking, but it wouldn't affect idle...

schoir 11-30-2010 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by insite
okay, update time! let's dive right in. when last i posted, i had an issue with some broken head studs. let's start there. these things were completely welded in place; no way to extract other than to drill.
....

this obviously took awhile. FYI, helicoils are awesome. they come in 1/2" deep inserts, but you can stack two, which is what i did in this case.

Insite:

Really, really excellent photos!

I went through something similar when installing headers in place of the stock exhaust manifold on a 10 year old Boxster. 4 of the 6 exhaust manifold bolts on the passenger side sheared off, the rest of them came out in one piece. I was able to drill in the center of each bolt until there were just threads left, at which point I was able to back some of them out and tap out the others.

Have you thought about installing studs onto the cylinder heads, instead of using bolts? After less than a year, the factory bolts that I used to install the new headers on my Boxster are already rusting, so I have sourced coated studs, phosphor bronze lock washers and brass nuts. I plan to replace the bolts with studs in the spring.

Thanks for taking the time to document your project so thoroughly! :cheers:

Regards, Maurice.

Gilles 11-30-2010 11:28 AM

Insite,

Thank you for the great pictures..! You are almost ready to roll, congratulations !!

Q: how deep you drilled the holes for the helicoils..?

.

insite 11-30-2010 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by schoir
Have you thought about installing studs onto the cylinder heads, instead of using bolts? After less than a year, the factory bolts that I used to install the new headers on my Boxster are already rusting, so I have sourced coated studs, phosphor bronze lock washers and brass nuts. I plan to replace the bolts with studs in the spring.

i did think about using studs. i opted for ample amounts of anti-seize w/ the factory bolts. this has worked well for me in the past.

these particular bolts were by far the worst i've ever had to work. the bolts really somehow became part of the aluminum head. glad that's over.....

insite 11-30-2010 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gilles
Q: how deep you drilled the holes for the helicoils..?

i had two bolts that actually came out okay, so i measured the depth of the holes & tried to match that with my drilling. i believe it was like 31mm.

when drilling through the bolts, it's easy to notice when you're at the bottom. there is a gap between the end of the fastener & the bottom of the tapped hole; you can feel when the drill goes through the last of the steel. still, though, better safe than sorry!

Topless 11-30-2010 12:14 PM

Ugh! Extracting bolts that have bonded to the block is probably my least favorite job. I screwed it up more than once in my youth too. At least your motor was out where you could get some elbow room for turning wrenches and it sounds like you got good results.

From the looks of that motor I bet it saw duty on winter salted roads many times.

schoir 11-30-2010 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by insite
i did think about using studs. i opted for ample amounts of anti-seize w/ the factory bolts. this has worked well for me in the past.

these particular bolts were by far the worst i've ever had to work. the bolts really somehow became part of the aluminum head. glad that's over.....

Insite:

I did the same with my new bolts... I actually think that I have more anti-seize compound than bolts in there at this time! LOL!

I hope I don't have a problem when I go to remove those then 1 1/2 year old bolts in the Spring. I don't want to go through that experience again!

Again, thanks for the excellent documentation and photos you are providing to the community.

Regards, Maurice.

insite 11-30-2010 12:21 PM

i used anti-seize w/ my other motor with very good results. they backed out easily even after some corrosion.

this replacement motor was particularly bad; i think they degreased it & then didn't rinse off all the degreaser. it then sat on a shelf in a warehouse for EIGHT years....PLENTY of time for nastiness to ensue.

schoir 11-30-2010 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by insite
another thing to deal with is the brake booster line. on the 996 manifold, it's on the wrong side. to deal with this, i cut off the hard line that runs up the firewall from under the car. it's possible to cut off the flexible section, exposing a barbed outlet.

to this, i attached some 16mm silicone vacuum hose that i routed underneath the manifold & up to the inlet. originally, i'd flipped the inlet upside down so it pointed downward instead of upward. it turns out that it won't clear my intake plumbing this way, so i put it back into its stock position.

http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t...1/_MG_8076.jpg

...
oh yeah, i forgot to mention that the engine is in the car.......and that i've started it.

Insite:

Did you happen to notice exactly where the rubber hose that starts at the top of the oil cooler (in your photo above) is routed?

Did your '99 motor have a metal nipple protruding from the top of the oil pump housing at the front of the engine, and was there a hose that ran from that nipple towards the rear of the engine, to the coolant reservoir or to a Tee with a connection from the hose that comes from the oil cooler and then goes to the coolant reservoir?

The reason I am asking is because a previous owner of my '98 engined Boxster just plugged the top of the oil cooler with a short piece of rubber hose and clamped in a bolt to seal it off. I haven't been able to find the correct routing of that hose from the top of the oil cooler.

Regards, Maurice.

insite 11-30-2010 12:32 PM

absolutely. it exits the top of the oil cooler, routes behind the starter, and exits from beneath the intake manifold on the passenger side. it connects directly to the coolant reservoir. nothing connects to the oil pump.

Quote:

Originally Posted by schoir
Insite:

Did you happen to notice exactly where the rubber hose that starts at the top of the oil cooler (in your photo above) is routed?

Did your '99 motor have a metal nipple protruding from the top of the oil pump housing at the front of the engine, and was there a hose that ran from that nipple towards the rear of the engine, to the coolant reservoir or to a Tee with a connection from the hose that comes from the oil cooler and then goes to the coolant reservoir?

The reason I am asking is because a previous owner of my '98 engined Boxster just plugged the top of the oil cooler with a short piece of rubber hose and clamped in a bolt to seal it off. I haven't been able to find the correct routing of that hose from the top of the oil cooler.

Regards, Maurice.


schoir 11-30-2010 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by insite
absolutely. it exits the top of the oil cooler, routes behind the starter, and exits from beneath the intake manifold on the passenger side. it connects directly to the coolant reservoir. nothing connects to the oil pump.


Insite:

Thanks for the explanation.

Regards, Maurice.

extanker 11-30-2010 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by schoir
Insite:

Thanks for the explanation.

Regards, Maurice.

werent you shown parts pictures of this hose months ago ?

schoir 11-30-2010 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Topless
Ugh! Extracting bolts that have bonded to the block is probably my least favorite job. I screwed it up more than once in my youth too. At least your motor was out where you could get some elbow room for turning wrenches and it sounds like you got good results.

From the looks of that motor I bet it saw duty on winter salted roads many times.

Topless:

Here's a link to my adventure with broken exhaust manifold bolts:

http://www.ppbb.com/phorum/read.php?19,1552140,1552140#msg-1552140

Worthwhile reading for anyone contemplating removing exhaust manifold to cylinder head bolts.

Regards, Maurice.

schoir 11-30-2010 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by extanker
werent you shown parts pictures of this hose months ago ?

extanker:

Never got a conclusive answer.

There is still the mystery of the extra metal nipple from the top of the oil pump cover, but now I realize that this may only apply to '97 and '98 Boxster engines.

The parts diagrams show two different oil pump cover part numbers, and Insite has confirmed for me that no such nipple exists on a '99.

Regards, Maurice.

JFP in PA 11-30-2010 01:16 PM

Maurice, that line from the top of the oil cooler is a vent to the surge tank to release entrained air from the cooler, which happens to be the highest point of the cooling system on the engine. By getting rid of the air, the laminar flow exchanger works very well; with trapped air, its thermal efficiency falls off very quickly....

schoir 11-30-2010 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JFP in PA
Maurice, that line from the top of the oil cooler is a vent to the surge tank to release entrained air from the cooler, which happens to be the highest point of the cooling system on the engine. By getting rid of the air, the laminar flow exchanger works very well; with trapped air, its thermal efficiency falls off very quickly....

JFP:

Thanks again for your invaluable input!

It's always appreciated.

Regards, Maurice.

Onizuka 12-01-2010 01:29 AM

Awesome project, I'm really interested in what kind of real world performance it will put down :)

insite 12-01-2010 03:34 PM

okay, i hit it with a code reader today......no codes. another oddity is that even though i'm using the RoW program which should only monitor two O2 sensors, i'm getting readings from all four.....

so, here are some numbers at idle:

MAF: 0.95
Ign Adv: 12deg
Fuel Sys 1 & 2: closed
ST Ftrm 11: -11.7%
ST Ftrm 21: 9.4%

the symptoms are a lumpy idle and a very fuel-rich exhaust with some smoke. from the numbers above, it seems that one bank is rich & one is lean.....

i will work on prepping a diagnostic plan tomorrow. in the meantime, any ideas are welcome! as a first order of business, i will check to see if the small oil leak from the area of the #1 spark plug tube is somehow related.

schoir 12-01-2010 07:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by insite
okay, i hit it with a code reader today......no codes. another oddity is that even though i'm using the RoW program which should only monitor two O2 sensors, i'm getting readings from all four.....

so, here are some numbers at idle:

MAF: 0.95
Ign Adv: 12deg
Fuel Sys 1 & 2: closed
ST Ftrm 11: -11.7%
ST Ftrm 21: 9.4%

the symptoms are a lumpy idle and a very fuel-rich exhaust with some smoke. from the numbers above, it seems that one bank is rich & one is lean.....

i will work on prepping a diagnostic plan tomorrow. in the meantime, any ideas are welcome! as a first order of business, i will check to see if the small oil leak from the area of the #1 spark plug tube is somehow related.

Insite:

I know that you have dealt with the common issue of the correct volume/velocity of the air intake as affected by the diameter of the intake housing/tubing by installing the BMW 540i MAF housing and the associated silicone tubing, but are you sure that all of that is correct and that there are no air leaks anywhere in the tubing connections?

Also, is it possible that the DME has to learn the values by going through the various cycles, as it does when you disconnect the battery for a while and the DME has to relearn the correct fuel trims, etc.? And that may one of the causes for the lumpy idle?

Regards, Maurice.

insite 12-02-2010 03:47 AM

maurice - all good puts.

since i have an oil leak and it's the first obvious point of breach from the engine internals to the environment, i'll look there first for vacumm leak issues. once i resolve that, i will pull the plugs & examine each to try & pinpoint the issue to a single cylinder, single bank, or all cylinders / all banks.

your MAF questions are good. looking at my ST FTRM readouts, you'll notice that once cylinder is trying to lean itself & the other is trying to enrich itself. if the MAF were the issue, we'd see similar rather than opposing trends between the banks. looking at these numbers, my guess is that if i allow the engine to run a bit longer, the adaptation will eventually move me out of the 'normal' range and i'll get a 'LEAN LIMIT' code, meaning that the engine is running too rich for the DME to compensate. i will, however, disconnect the MAF & give it a test run just in case.

the next order of business will be to check for vacuum leaks. i'll do this with propane & a visual / audible inspection.

hopefully by the time i get to this point, something will be obvious. if not, i will need to revalidate the camshaft timing. i'm positive i verified it as spot on prior to putting the enigine in the car, so i bet we'll find the problem before we get here.....

in the meantime, here are a few more photos of the installation:

engine bay:

http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t...1/_MG_8095.jpg


http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t...1/_MG_8100.jpg


airbox (i will add a hose to the airbox inlet that elbows over to the body inlet to ensure cold air only):

http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t...1/_MG_8101.jpg



close-up of the too-tall tranny mounts:

http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t...1/_MG_8103.jpg

JAAY 12-02-2010 04:20 AM

What Maf housing are you running?

insite 12-02-2010 04:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JAAY
What Maf housing are you running?



it's the 3.5" housing from a BMW 540i (E39). i believe it was your recommendaton, & it does match the 996 3.4L diameter. still, if the MAF housing were my issue, i think i'd be reading rich at both banks......

JAAY 12-02-2010 04:26 AM

Never mind. I missed the 540 post. Sounds like a vacuum leak. I had issues like this right after I did my 3.4 also. I just had leaks in the intake system and on the intake manifolds. I hope you get it all ironed out.

insite 12-02-2010 04:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JAAY
Never mind. I missed the 540 post. Sounds like a vacuum leak. I had issues like this right after I did my 3.4 also. I just had leaks in the intake system and on the intake manifolds. I hope you get it all ironed out.

you're probably right......we shall see.

insite 12-02-2010 02:46 PM

ok, some progress:

oil leak diagnosed. i remember now i had waited to tighten the oil pressure sender because i didn't have a narrow enough wrench to get between the head & the sender. no worries; channel locks worked wonders.

funny noise diagnosed. the power steering lines were still cavitated. i turned the steering back and forth a bit, topped off the fluid, and it quited down.

drivability issue diagnosed. i pulled the plugs; all looked well. i checked for vacuum leaks; all looked well. it SEEMED like a cam timing issue to me, but i got a feeling it would work itself out. this motor was degreased & shelved for EIGHT years. when i did a compression test before i installed the motor (turning it by hand), some cylinders didn't have very good readings. i've been working under the assumption that some scaly crud was preventing the valves from closing all the way & maybe interfering w/ the lifters. anyway, i let it run for awhile. i revved it up to 4k and held it until everything was good and hot. i blipped the throttle a bunch & generally tried to blow out the junk. sure enough, it smoothed out & the fuel adaptation values converged. everything is looking good!

saturday, i'll raise the transmission 1/4", then put the axles & suspension bits back in. then it will be time for a road test. booyah. :cheers:

Pat 12-02-2010 02:51 PM

All good news. You've got to be SO jacked by now to get that thing on the road. VERY exciting stuff!
:dance:

insite 12-02-2010 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pat
All good news. You've got to be SO jacked by now to get that thing on the road. VERY exciting stuff!
:dance:


i really can't wait to drive it. it died in march of '08! been WAY too long. it takes me a good bit of restraint not to rush it......

one of the coolest things was watching the VarioRam properly actuate, proving all the wiring & vacuum routing works like a champ.

one odd thing: the low coolant light is flashing. i'm all topped up, the system is burped (heater routing too!), and the sensor is plugged in. small issue, really.....

schoir 12-02-2010 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by insite
i really can't wait to drive it. it died in march of '08! been WAY too long. it takes me a good bit of restraint not to rush it......

one of the coolest things was watching the VarioRam properly actuate, proving all the wiring & vacuum routing works like a champ.

one odd thing: the low coolant light is flashing. i'm all topped up, the system is burped (heater routing too!), and the sensor is plugged in. small issue, really.....

Insite:

WAY TO (methodically) GO! :cheers:

When you first get it on the road, make sure you get photos of your permagrin that are as good as the other photos you have posted!

For the coolant light flashing, is it possible that the float sensor (inside the tube in the coolant tank) is stuck in the down position and is thus sending an incorrect signal?

Also, don't forget that the "coolant level low" warning light can also flash to indicate a fault in the engine compartment blower fan, so check that out as well.

Regards, Maurice.

Cloudsurfer 12-02-2010 07:50 PM

Looking good Kevin! Glad that you could put those silicone bits and t-bolt clamps to good use! You'll LOVE it once you take it for a drive....

insite 12-04-2010 02:10 PM

cloudsurfer - glad you remembered my name!! :-)


ok, road test today & put 70 miles on it. a little scare when i started to back out of the garage; HUGE billows of black smoke that smelled eerily familiar, but that i couldn't place..... oh yeah, bonding agents & kevlar. it was the new clutch. once that crap started burning off, all was well.

first impressions? holy ****************. i'd forgotten how raw and visceral this particular car was. first off, it's a no-option car, so it's very light. it also has very stiff suspension, no sound deadening, a solid front motor mount, and a LOUD stebro race exhaust. it is now also quite fast. this thing stirs every emotion when i drive it, even a little fear.....but in a good way!

the torque curve is so different than my G35. the G has TONS of low end grunt, but struggles for air up high. this thing is the reverse; torque is a little muted below about 3k, but once you're over 4k, it just builds and builds. MUCH more tractable around town; no need to shift as often. the noise is wonderful. also, with the added 600 RPM's, i can now breach 60mph in 2nd and 100mph in 3rd. this alone will save me some tenths at the track.

i still have a couple of minor details to handle. the car still wants to die at idle when i get off the gas. need to find the vacuum leak. the hose betweein the oil separator & my throttle is pinched; i'll also need to fix that. all in all, i'm very happy with the car & the project was a lot of fun.

thanks to the board & online community for all the help. i need to individually thank Todd Holyoak for all his help in paving the way for these swaps & for putting up with all of my questions along the way. Cloudsurfer was invaluable in helping design my intake plumbing. he even sent me a few silicone pieces and T-bolt clamps. thanks!

the one person i need to kick is hans; that's the name i gave to the guy that put all those friggin spring clamps on the hoses in this car. bubba's the name of his nemesis, the guy who invented the spring clamp cable pliers (i'll post a pic!).

more to come......

AndyA6 12-04-2010 03:59 PM

Congrats!

You made a lot of people take note and dream!

Later,
Andy

tnoice 12-07-2010 04:29 AM

Comgrats. I hope you get all of the little bugs ironed out. It sounds like this project was well worth the time, money, and effort. We will be looking forward to hear ongoing reports.

insite 12-07-2010 04:48 AM

update:

holyoak reminded me of the idle air control valve.......duh. i pulled it off to clean it & check it. it was rusted solid; i couldn't even move it by hand after i opened it up.

i dug out the one from the boxster engine, gave it a good cleaning, & popped it in the car. ran TERRIBLE!!! way worse off. i reset the DME & voila, buttery idle. running very well now.

keeps getting faster every day. i gave a check ride to a forum member last night (byron in atl); he agreed it's a little scary. much faster than either of us thought it would be.

Bladecutter 12-07-2010 08:42 AM

Good job, and congrats!

I have one question:

Since you installed a light weight flywheel, what precautions have you taken to prevent the crankshaft from going bye-bye?

Cracked cranks have been reported with light weight flywheels.
Especially track cars.

BC.

insite 12-07-2010 09:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bladecutter
Good job, and congrats!

I have one question:

Since you installed a light weight flywheel, what precautions have you taken to prevent the crankshaft from going bye-bye?

Cracked cranks have been reported with light weight flywheels.
Especially track cars.


no precautions at this point. i used a LWF on my old engine. when i take it apart to inspect, if it has a broken crank, you can bet i'll pull the LWF immediately.

i may go ahead & get a damped crank pulley. we'll see.

AndyA6 12-07-2010 12:42 PM

I guess you do this anyway..... but after the initial runs do you plan to change the oil, say after a 1,000 mls?

seningen 12-08-2010 06:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndyA6
I guess you do this anyway..... but after the initial runs do you plan to change the oil, say after a 1,000 mls?

When we do our M96 rebuilds

It's 20 min dump oil, inspect filter
250 mile dump oil & inspect
1000 miles dump oil & inspect
We keep the revs below 4k
Until the 1250 mark
Then drive it normally and change oil every 6k miles

In the big scheme of things
Oil is cheap

Mike

insite 12-11-2010 05:34 AM

since this engine is already broken in, i plan on a 1000 mile oil & filter change.

BTW, vBox dyno that gave my boxster engine 174HP at the wheels was used to dyno the new motor. 288HP! i think that may be a bit high, but it does seem to confirm my suspicion that i'm putting down a lot more than the stock 3.4's 299HP. this thing feels REALLY REALLY quick.


Quote:

Originally Posted by seningen
When we do our M96 rebuilds

It's 20 min dump oil, inspect filter
250 mile dump oil & inspect
1000 miles dump oil & inspect
We keep the revs below 4k
Until the 1250 mark
Then drive it normally and change oil every 6k miles

In the big scheme of things
Oil is cheap

Mike



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