IMS question

[dave_gt]

As my first post on this forum, I think it is important to check with the experts (all of you!) about the reported IMS failures and engine failures of the Boxters...I first read about them in Excellence magazine.

I am in the market for a 911 SC...but have been thinking hard about a Boxster. However, an engine failure sounds like a deal killer. Are these failures common and are there ways to detect the potential failure before it happens?

Assuming worst case, what is the cost to replace the engine?

Thanks in advance for your assistance!

dave

[Brucelee]

There is no hard data on the frequency of failures on these engines. From anecdote, there appear to be plenty (count my neighbor as one of the anecdotes).

If you do a search here, you will find a great number of threads where the cost of engine replacement is discussed.

As you might imagine, the cost ranges all over the lot. If you find a used engine and do the job yourself, or if you simply drop it off at the dealer for a replacement engine, the cost range can be substantial.

Good luck and choose wisely.

[mptoledo]

Two people on here charge $2500 for ims upgrade and they also do some clutch work in that price. Personally I think the IMS thing has gotten a little overblown, albeit it is a serious issue as it will cost you from $10k to $20k (depending on which engine you upgrade to). I have heard 1-5% failure and some estimate as high as 12%. I have heard some people on here have gotten the IMS replaced for under $1000. Fortunately the cost of used boxsters are cheap and pretty much afford you the savings to have the work done. I consider ims upgrade as an insurance policy. I am still thinking it over and will probably make a decision in the spring.

[mikefocke]

and the size of the engine, there can be varying causes of problems. As with any engine in any make car. Many drive their cars well past the 100k miles mark...max I know of is a daily driver '02 at 230k...with never going inside the engine. Others have had multiple engines fail in their car.

There are starting to be aftermarket solutions to design problems available that can be installed as preventative measures.

As one who has documented many things about Boxsters including common problems and solutions, I own my second Boxster and it has been more reliable than my Honda, Acura, Mazda, VW, etc when measured in $ spent in repairs per month driven and/or frequency of trips to the mechanic measured over 5 years. Neither Boxster I owned ever left me stranded. Maintenance does matter...change the oil at least twice as frequently as they say to. My total expenses this year so far were $140 for a sensor that I really didn't need to change but just wanted a new one in to balance the age of the opposite one I replaced 3 years ago...the Honda dealer wanted $450 to replace the same part in my CRV.

Just because the Boxster/Porsche community knows all about their engines and shares the info freely, don't over-react to knowing so much. Other cars have their problems, their owners just don't care as much or share as much. Or maybe have as much fun.

More thoughts hhere

[Cloudsurfer]

I think it's safe to say it's certainly an issue, especially on cars before 06 when Porsche went to their giant bearing for the IMS. However, it is remediable with the fitment of an aftermarket bearing.

As to comparing a Boxster to an SC, they are totally different cars. The SC's are known to be bullet proof, and have all the charm (take that in both positive and negative light) of the older air cooled cars. The Boxster is a modern car, complete with it's high and low points.

[JFP in PA]

Any model that came with the M96 engine is at risk, regardless of the year, miles, or model. Even the OEM “final” upgrade to the bearing design is known to fail. The options remain to “cross your fingers” or drop about $3K to go to the LN design as a preventative (or alternative) to dropping about three times that if it lets go…… It is all a matter of perspective……..

[blinkwatt]

Originally Posted by JFP in PA

Any model that came with the M96 engine is at risk, regardless of the year, miles, or model. Even the OEM “final” upgrade to the bearing design is known to fail. The options remain to “cross your fingers” or drop about $3K to go to the LN design as a preventative (or alternative) to dropping about three times that if it lets go…… It is all a matter of perspective……..

Not all M96 engines suffer IMS failures...it was mainly an issue with the 3.2L,3.4 & 3.6L engines......I've only seen 1 2.5L IMS failure and a couple of 2.7L IMS failures....

[cnavarro]

No, all M96 engines can suffer an IMS failure. We have supplied IMS retrofit kits to dealerships who have seen '06-'08 engines with failures, although not as frequent, likely due to relative age. You don't hear about it as much as they are being fixed under warranty still...

[JFP in PA]

Originally Posted by blinkwatt

Not all M96 engines suffer IMS failures...it was mainly an issue with the 3.2L,3.4 & 3.6L engines......I've only seen 1 2.5L IMS failure and a couple of 2.7L IMS failures....

Sorry, but they all are capable of suffering the problem, even the latter units with the supposedly "fixed" bearing assembly.

[Jake Raby]

I have a car on my premises now that came in with an IMS failure.. It has a reman engine installed from early 2007 with the 06 and newer IMS update from Porsche.

Its here due to a failed IMS bearing.

I've seen failures from every year and model up to 07 so far, the IMS syndrome is not prejudice what so ever to any particular years or models.

The early cars seem not to have as many IMS failures, they have other similarly devestating MOF..

[lardog]

Originally Posted by JFP in PA

Sorry, but they all are capable of suffering the problem, even the latter units with the supposedly "fixed" bearing assembly.

i have had 6 porsche,s with the M96 engines. 3 boxster S 's 2000 2002 2000 1 2001 996 and 1 2007 997 0 problems. NO RMS or IMS still have a 2000 boxster S and the 2007 997.

[dave_gt]

Wow...thanks to all for the quick responses!

I have been considering a Boxster in the $12-15K range, but the prospect of doubling the expenditure with a failed engine is daunting. :chicken:

Guess I will stick with the 911 SC.

Thanks so much for the feedback. I will continue watching this forum for more information as I find you folks are indeed knowledgeable and friendly!

[JFP in PA]

Originally Posted by lardog

i have had 6 porsche,s with the M96 engines. 3 boxster S 's 2000 2002 2000 1 2001 996 and 1 2007 997 0 problems. NO RMS or IMS still have a 2000 boxster S and the 2007 997.

Consider yourself fortunate; but non everyone else has had the same luck, some have actually had multiple M96 IMS failures in one car……………

[JFP in PA]

Originally Posted by dave_gt

Wow...thanks to all for the quick responses!

I have been considering a Boxster in the $12-15K range, but the prospect of doubling the expenditure with a failed engine is daunting. :chicken:

Guess I will stick with the 911 SC.

Thanks so much for the feedback. I will continue watching this forum for more information as I find you folks are indeed knowledgeable and friendly!

Don’t be afraid of the M96; just be aware of its issues. You can upgrade to the LN/Raby replacement bearing for about what an extended warranty would cost you and sleep better at night; especially when you read all the horror stories about how the aftermarket warranty companies skip out on paying……… Just dial the price of an upgrade into your purchase price expectations and you’ll be fine.

[jmatta]

Just dial the price of an upgrade into your purchase price expectations and you’ll be fine.

I agree with this statement completely...why put your engine and auto investment at risk? I am seriously considering this upgrade on my car with 17k miles on the clock, just to remove the possibility of the failure.

[Brucelee]

I have to say that this is a pretty sad state of affairs. Folks here are (rightfully) contemplating a major repair to PREVENT a known engineering flaw in their engines.

Meanwhile, at most any Corvette forum, guys are spending similar amounts to add a 105 HP supercharger to their LS1 and LS2 engines.

If I were a Porsche engineer reading this, I would likely weep in my Spattan.

[JFP in PA]

Originally Posted by Brucelee

If I were a Porsche engineer reading this, I would likely weep in my Spattan.

Actually, it should be their accountants doing the weeping; far too many of the issues for this brand are cost-driven blunders rather than engineering decisions…..

[blinkwatt]

Originally Posted by Brucelee

Meanwhile, at most any Corvette forum, guys are spending similar amounts to add a 105 HP supercharger to their LS1 and LS2 engines.

Ditto. I want a yellow c5 badly. Sadly there is no market for my box....

[Brucelee]

I don't mean to put down the Box. I LOVE driving a Box. However, imagine how much fun it would be to be unconcerned about RMS and IMS. Even better, imagine if modding the motor were much cheaper and easier.

Wow!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[mptoledo]

Originally Posted by Brucelee

I don't mean to put down the Box. I LOVE driving a Box. However, imagine how much fun it would be to be unconcerned about RMS and IMS. Even better, imagine if modding the motor were much cheaper and easier.

Wow!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I have no further concerns over it. I have conceded that if it fails, I will get a replacement 3.6 or 3.8 engine. I mean **************** happens doesn't it? I don't let it detract from my enjoyment of my Porsche. If anybody is losing sleep over it, then I suggest pony up the money to upgrade your IMS or trade it in for a miata. Yes it does SUCK that this is even an issue, but with numbers of 2% to 11% guesstimated, I like my odds (knock on wood).