IMS question
 

As my first post on this forum, I think it is important to check with the experts (all of you!) about the reported IMS failures and engine failures of the Boxters...I first read about them in Excellence magazine.

I am in the market for a 911 SC...but have been thinking hard about a Boxster. However, an engine failure sounds like a deal killer. Are these failures common and are there ways to detect the potential failure before it happens?

Assuming worst case, what is the cost to replace the engine?

Thanks in advance for your assistance! :)

dave

There is no hard data on the frequency of failures on these engines. From anecdote, there appear to be plenty (count my neighbor as one of the anecdotes).

If you do a search here, you will find a great number of threads where the cost of engine replacement is discussed.

As you might imagine, the cost ranges all over the lot. If you find a used engine and do the job yourself, or if you simply drop it off at the dealer for a replacement engine, the cost range can be substantial.

Good luck and choose wisely.

:)

Two people on here charge $2500 for ims upgrade and they also do some clutch work in that price. Personally I think the IMS thing has gotten a little overblown, albeit it is a serious issue as it will cost you from $10k to $20k (depending on which engine you upgrade to). I have heard 1-5% failure and some estimate as high as 12%. I have heard some people on here have gotten the IMS replaced for under $1000. Fortunately the cost of used boxsters are cheap and pretty much afford you the savings to have the work done. I consider ims upgrade as an insurance policy. I am still thinking it over and will probably make a decision in the spring.

Depending on the model year
 

and the size of the engine, there can be varying causes of problems. As with any engine in any make car. Many drive their cars well past the 100k miles mark...max I know of is a daily driver '02 at 230k...with never going inside the engine. Others have had multiple engines fail in their car.

There are starting to be aftermarket solutions to design problems available that can be installed as preventative measures.

As one who has documented many things about Boxsters including common problems and solutions, I own my second Boxster and it has been more reliable than my Honda, Acura, Mazda, VW, etc when measured in $ spent in repairs per month driven and/or frequency of trips to the mechanic measured over 5 years. Neither Boxster I owned ever left me stranded. Maintenance does matter...change the oil at least twice as frequently as they say to. My total expenses this year so far were $140 for a sensor that I really didn't need to change but just wanted a new one in to balance the age of the opposite one I replaced 3 years ago...the Honda dealer wanted $450 to replace the same part in my CRV.

Just because the Boxster/Porsche community knows all about their engines and shares the info freely, don't over-react to knowing so much. Other cars have their problems, their owners just don't care as much or share as much. Or maybe have as much fun.

More thoughts hhere

I think it's safe to say it's certainly an issue, especially on cars before 06 when Porsche went to their giant bearing for the IMS. However, it is remediable with the fitment of an aftermarket bearing.

As to comparing a Boxster to an SC, they are totally different cars. The SC's are known to be bullet proof, and have all the charm (take that in both positive and negative light) of the older air cooled cars. The Boxster is a modern car, complete with it's high and low points.

Not all M96 engines suffer IMS failures...it was mainly an issue with the 3.2L,3.4 & 3.6L engines......I've only seen 1 2.5L IMS failure and a couple of 2.7L IMS failures....

No, all M96 engines can suffer an IMS failure. We have supplied IMS retrofit kits to dealerships who have seen '06-'08 engines with failures, although not as frequent, likely due to relative age. You don't hear about it as much as they are being fixed under warranty still...

Sorry, but they all are capable of suffering the problem, even the latter units with the supposedly "fixed" bearing assembly.

I have a car on my premises now that came in with an IMS failure.. It has a reman engine installed from early 2007 with the 06 and newer IMS update from Porsche.

Its here due to a failed IMS bearing.

I've seen failures from every year and model up to 07 so far, the IMS syndrome is not prejudice what so ever to any particular years or models.

The early cars seem not to have as many IMS failures, they have other similarly devestating MOF..

i have had 6 porsche,s with the M96 engines. 3 boxster S 's 2000 2002 2000 1 2001 996 and 1 2007 997 0 problems. NO RMS or IMS still have a 2000 boxster S and the 2007 997.

Wow...thanks to all for the quick responses!

I have been considering a Boxster in the $12-15K range, but the prospect of doubling the expenditure with a failed engine is daunting. :chicken:

Guess I will stick with the 911 SC.

Thanks so much for the feedback. I will continue watching this forum for more information as I find you folks are indeed knowledgeable and friendly! :D

Consider yourself fortunate; but non everyone else has had the same luck, some have actually had multiple M96 IMS failures in one car……………

Don’t be afraid of the M96; just be aware of its issues. You can upgrade to the LN/Raby replacement bearing for about what an extended warranty would cost you and sleep better at night; especially when you read all the horror stories about how the aftermarket warranty companies skip out on paying……… Just dial the price of an upgrade into your purchase price expectations and you’ll be fine.

Just dial the price of an upgrade into your purchase price expectations and you’ll be fine.

I agree with this statement completely...why put your engine and auto investment at risk? I am seriously considering this upgrade on my car with 17k miles on the clock, just to remove the possibility of the failure.

I have to say that this is a pretty sad state of affairs. Folks here are (rightfully) contemplating a major repair to PREVENT a known engineering flaw in their engines.

Meanwhile, at most any Corvette forum, guys are spending similar amounts to add a 105 HP supercharger to their LS1 and LS2 engines.

If I were a Porsche engineer reading this, I would likely weep in my Spattan.

:confused:

Actually, it should be their accountants doing the weeping; far too many of the issues for this brand are cost-driven blunders rather than engineering decisions…..

Ditto. I want a yellow c5 badly. Sadly there is no market for my box.... :(

I don't mean to put down the Box. I LOVE driving a Box. However, imagine how much fun it would be to be unconcerned about RMS and IMS. Even better, imagine if modding the motor were much cheaper and easier.

Wow!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I have no further concerns over it. I have conceded that if it fails, I will get a replacement 3.6 or 3.8 engine. I mean **************** happens doesn't it? I don't let it detract from my enjoyment of my Porsche. If anybody is losing sleep over it, then I suggest pony up the money to upgrade your IMS or trade it in for a miata. :cool: Yes it does SUCK that this is even an issue, but with numbers of 2% to 11% guesstimated, I like my odds (knock on wood).

sc or boxster
 

I own a 79 911 SC euro and a 2002 boxster S. If I could only have one it would probably be the SC since I believe I can keep it forever.

The drive is completely different in both. The boxster is much more refined and has better brakes and handling characteristics. Not to mention a climate control that actually works. My SC is pretty well modified and it is a ton of fun to drive. More raw, more gear whine, more thrilling to push hard etc.

My guess is that ultimately the boxster aftermarket will come through with good reasonable options for remedying the problems in our cars. We are seeing this already with the likes of Jake Raby and LN engineering.

One of the guys that I have gone to a few track events with had much the same options that you are going through. He went with the boxster and has built a killer track machine. The sc's may be bulletproof but to put those motors together correctly you are still talking a good deal of money.

Bottom line drive both cars and pick which one you like. If these cars were built that crappy this board would not exist because no one would like the cars.

If I was comparing a SC to a standard boxster it would be a no brainer go with SC. If it was an S I would think harder but probably still go with the SC. I like old stuff though.

My last Porsche was an '85 911 3.2 Carerra. It was a nice car, but it too had things to worry about. It also had terrible heat/ac, a crappy shifting 915 tranny, and interesting tail heavy handling. It looked incredible, was fun to drive, but the driving experience between that and my "lowly base" 2002 boxster is night and day, with the Box being the clear winner. I really love driving my Boxster and all the modern things about it, and for that reason I don't worry about the possible engine issues. I have had over 35 cars, from classic muscle to four wheelers to sports cars, and all have their maladies. If my Boxster motor decides to bite the dust, I will cringe, but then I'll probably look forward to sticking something stronger into it......like I have had to before sometimes..... you want to play, you gotta pay...otherwise, buy a camry.... :cheers:

The only time I ever get concerned about IMS is when I come to this forum and of the three forums I visit daily this is the only one that seems obsessed by it. Some forums seem to draw all the negative problems with a particular piece of equipment and all the detractors. I own a Leica M8 camera, made in Germany, and of the three forums for Leica cameras I belong to one of them is like this forum is with IMS. If you went to that forum before you bought a Leica M8 you would never buy one, yet the other two forums never, or rarely, raise a fuss about the camera. I've owned my M8 for three years and not once had a problem with it. As an observation from a relatively new Boxster owner, and member of this forum, there appears to be a lot of negativity about the Boxster from a few members but their input seems to carry a lot of weight here. Perhaps if the, at times, overly sensational posts where taken in context of the poster the issue would carry less importance than it does and could be viewed in the overall context of Boxster mechanical history which is one of reliability and low cost of upkeep. The fact that the Boxster is the best value for a sports roadster says something about the car.

I'll agree with you that the issue is perhaps over played, however, if you are one of the few unlucky ones who has an IMS failure, you'll certainly change your tune in a hurry.

What's too bad about the fix, is that unless you're due for a clutch, it's an awful lot of labor just to change a bearing.

I fully agree with you Cloudsurfer and as fate would have it I need to have the RMS on my '99 replaced as it has started to leak a little. The extra labor and cost to replace the IMS bearing while already in there is money well spent on maintenance and I'm going to go ahead and replace it as I will be tracking and AXing the car next spring. My view on the issue of IMS is that if it goes and junks my motor I would look at it as a situation to upgrade from what I've got and I'd slip in a new or rebuilt 3.2L. :cheers:

You folks need to be careful concerning the "IMS failure" hyperbole on this board. There are users on this board that make a living woking on porsche's and selling aftermarket parts. And I have seen postings where some people claimed IMS failure in a post but have never posted again. It is easy in this day and age to "create" a market of fear then serve the needs of that market.

I am making no claims (for or against). I am just saying be careful.

It is not hyperbole, it is real. While not as widespread as other issues; it is nearly always fatal to the engine. To describe it as a myth is delusional. I’d suggest you visit some shops that have pulled engines with failed IMS bearings and look at the result before casting aspersions on the validity of the issue…….

"It is not hyperbole, it is real. While not as widespread as other issues; it is nearly always fatal to the engine. To describe it as a myth is delusional. I’d suggest you visit some shops that have pulled engines with failed IMS bearings and look at the result before casting aspersions on the validity of the issue……."

Hyperbole: meaning excess or exaggeration

I would suggest you work on your reading comprehension.

I meant exactly what I said; the IMS issue is not an "exaggeration"….

And I would suggest you get a life………………..

It is a real issue...I have two friends that lost engines due to this failure. I wonder how many folks out there also have two friends?

It doesn't mean every engine will implode; just that there is a possibility and to be aware of it (exercise risk management).

This forum is fortunate to have some very knowledgeable individuals who share their "real life" stories and experiences with the rest of us.

Ditto
It is exaggerated IMO. If it happens to mine, I will swap something else in there, maybe not manufactured by Porsche.
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