timing chain like noise centered at oil crankcase
 

Need a little help. I have a 1999 boxster with 80K miles (bought it used about a year ago). I just got a noticable timing chain like noise at idle and increases when accelerating. I used the old wooden pole trick to listen where it appears to originate and it centered at the oil plug. The noise reminds me of a timing chain failure I had once with a Toyota Celica I used to own. It eventually cracked the timing case cover.
I don't have much spare time to tackle it on my own and may have to bring it to (excuse me) 'Porsche' before something bad happens.
The car has been running decently since I bought it and had to only replace the coolant tank in the trunk. I think my luck is running out. Has anyone experience this?

Cracked oil pick-up tube? Had similar noise on my 968 and that was the culprit.

If possiable I would send it to Jake in cleveland. He is only an hour from you and his rates are cheaper than the dealer. Better work as well in my opinion.

Can you post an audio file of this??What oil are you running? When did this pop up? Was it a slow progression, or did it just happen suddenly?

This is the best advice, and it's a scenic drive.

timing chain like noise centered at oil crankcase
 

Jake,
This happened suddenly. Sort of a deep metallic chain (clock ticking) when idling. Will get loud while driving. Subsides when engine not under load. (I'm not driving it anymore). I'm using Mobil 1 Syn 5W-30. The vehicle has had white smoke every once in a while on start up (normal I was told) but now appears to smoke more frequently. I'll send a audio file today.
Do you have a contact phone number? Like to discuss options with you.

Timing CHain-Like noise centered at oil crankcase audio/video
 

Here's the video/audio file on youtube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e4uLgTK-PKU

I wouldn't run it any more after listening to the video. Needs to be checked out first.

Ouch!!
The file isn't distinct enough for a remote diagnosis, but it certainly doesn't sound good.
Have you recently serviced the engine and used the Mobil oil that you mentioned in your post??

Contact us at info@flat6innovations.com and we'll be glad to work with you..

I definitely would not run that engine any more at all, that could be the IMS in early stages of failure, the whirring sound is something I am very concerned about

timing chain noise centered at oil crankcase
 

I know. Yes, as a matter of fact I changed my oil about two weeks ago. You have me wondering about the lite weight oil in the summertime but it seems like something broke/snapped like a cam chain tensioner....It's my primary vehicle and I drive it normally. I probably will attempt one more run to the dealer since they're 2 miles away as opposed to your place up north. I'm afraid I'll be spending alot of time waiting for a tow truck. Although I would enjoy the ride as Demara stated I don't think I'll make it. I'm thinking like cnavarro, ,maybe I can salvage this vehicle. Who knows maybe Porshe will quote me an amount that will be competive with obtaining a replacement engine.
The vehicle looks nice and shiny too bad it's not reliable.
Being a fairly new Porsche owner my

Do not drive that car 2 miles!! Trying to limp the car anywhere could lead to a catastrophic failure, I see this happen ALL THE TIME!

The Dealer probably doesn't know what this is.. Their only recommendations for you will be engine replacement, more than likely, because they are parts changers...

It'll cost you more at the Dealer and you'll get less service... Dealership techs call me for information about the internals of these engines quite frequently because most have never accomplished more than resealing of cam covers...

I can have a tow truck dispatched to your location within minutes and they don't charge Atlanta prices.. People send me cars from all the way across the country, because no one locally understands their engine... You are local and you should take advantage of my location. Repairs and heavy internal maintenance that others have no experience with are my specialty.

What ever you do, DO NOT drive or run that car any longer!! Doing so, and trying to save a towing fee could compromise the entire engine. You MUST work from worst case scenario and nothing else.. Right now if the IMS bearing or a tensioner has gone bad we can save the engine, after a full blown failure we can't.

I was not asking about the oil due to the weight, I recently have found certain characteristics with a certain oil that has me very concerned in two different engines.

timing chain like noise centered at oil crankcase
 

Ok I'm convinced. please call me for tow to your place.

I didn't mean to come across as pushy... I'll apologize in advance for my intensity :-)

I'll call you first thing Monday morning, or maybe tomorrow evening if I complete my weekend project early enough.

I look forward to assisting you.

No apology needed. I've dealt with this particular Porsche dealer before and have been slammed with bills and am not impressed with their service. The noise sounds serious to me and you pinged my technical conscience to urgency. You seem to have quite a following on the forum so I'll give you a try. Hey, I'm out of options at this point.
the sooner the better, tomorrow works for me if
thanks for the concern.

I know the Dealer you are referring to...

Jhandy's car is here now, he shipped it here from Texas, so people do believe in us and what we have done with these engines..

We'll treat you right, we do things the old fashioned way :-)

The Boxster arrived at my facility a few minutes ago.. I just finished a piston installation procedure, so I am headed downstairs now to get it onto the lift and diagnose the sound.. I fired it up very briefly and heard the noise straight away. Now comes the fun part.

Good to hear.....or maybe not. Hopefully damage will be at minimum.
By the way, the Griffin driver was a pleasure to deal with, as you stated.
I'll keep my fingers crossed. thanks.

Glad you had a good experience with the tow company, they have been towing cars for me for years...

I have a good idea the noise is the IMS bearing, but I am awaiting a second opinion from a bearing test device that we have at our disposal. If the noise isn't the IMS it may be the IMS drive chain, something that can't be remedied without a full tear down. It could also be the oil pump as it is also driven from the IMS, opposite the bearing end.

The jury is still out, I'll sleep on it and get back with you in the morning.. The good news is it hasn't had a catastrophic failure, so I can repair it.

While my heart goes out to jbox's wallet, I must say, this is the most exciting thread I've seen on 986forum!

I have a definitive on the root of the sound.. It's multi-faceted.

You have two things going on:

- Bad water pump bearing
- IMS bearing is beginning to go south

The water pump is the rumbling part of the sound, the IMS is the whirring sound.. I disconnected the serpentine belt after I used a stethoscope to listen to the water pump housing and hearing a rumbling sound... With that disconnected the rumble was gone but the whirring sound was more defined.

The IMS flange is leaking also.. You also have a pair of leaky cam covers and a few cracked coil packs along with at least one bad chain tensioner.

I'll go a little further in the morning, but a few hours this afternoon has proven that it's repairable.

I like the prognosis so far! Good news Jake. great detective work. Yimmy, I'm glad you're excited. Hopefully you're not one of those folks that like to watch horror movies with a bag of popcorn at your side :)
Technically, solving a problem systematically is an engineers' dream, and Jake , you appear to be in your element. I looking forward to the end of the story.

I'm really grateful we have someone like Jake on this board. When my engine died, Jake spent 30 minutes on the phone walking me thru options, and trying to get a feel for what would be best for me.

If I never said it, thanks Jake.

I grew up breaking parts and engines for fun. I had my own junkyard at age 18 with 80 VWs and a few Porsches.. I have an appreciation for broken parts that most can't imagine, so thats why the M96 engine fits my personality so well.

Its been easy so far.. Not even a challenge, tomorrow I'll localize some other tests and see what happens.

No problem, I hope I was of some assistance.. Most of those that I talk to don't buy anything from us, because our options are not cheap.. The only thing more expensive than going my way is going any other way twice and still being disgusted.

Lots more to be unveiled soon.. If what I have shared so far has ruffled your feathers, just wait till I get a chance to work on my website.

Update:

jbox53 picked his car up today...

His IMS retrofit is doing great, along with a new water pump..

Another engine successfully retrofitted and saved from the scrap pile!!

Here is Jim's Boxster receiving it's "IMS Test"

Jake, nice work! Glad jbox53 gets to continue to enjoy his Boxster.
Always nice to read about a happy ending.

And Jake, please post those R&D findings soon- we can't take the suspense much longer. :)

I'll post some pics of the IMS bearing tomorrow.. It was loose inside the shaft and the noise was coming from that more than actual roller/ race wear..

First time I had seen this.. basically the internal snap ring was the only thing holding it in place..

Beats rollerskating
 

Jake, thanks for keeping me out of the tank with my 80K mile boxster. And thank you for the tour and explaining (illustrating) the work you did.
For everyone out there, Jake found the following things needing repair for my vehicle.
1. IMS bearing (replaced)
2. Shot clutch, plate and bearing (replaced)
3. worn lifters (will fix later)
4. worn time chain tensioners (will fix later)
5. Bad MAF sensor (to be fixed)
6. crack front motor mount (to be fixed)
7. crack ignition coils (to be fixed)
8. shot water pump (replaced)

I am personally going to attack the mount and MAF sensor next.

Jake, it was obvious you’re passionate about your work. I used to work with an old auto mechanic while I was attending school and he use to tell me that it was such a pleasure to talk to someone who really knew their stuff, and the pleasure was all mine.

I was fortunate that the water pump noise emanated to the crank case wall alterting me that someting bad was happening. Pure luck I contacted you. I will have to watch my "patient" more closely in the future and I know where the doctor's office is....

For all of you Boxster owners out there, Jake's the man.

Thanks.. It was great meeting you, and Jill.

You were VERY lucky! This is the first time I have seen a bearing make noise in this manner.. Everything happens for a reason, and that water pump bearing going out was like a small heart attack that saved a much bigger one.

....Don't forget about the 996 and Cayman owners :-)

Thanks for being great to work with, patient and for being a god communicator.

986 Engine Mount Toast
 

Just to keep all up to date.
I just finished installing the engine mount onto my 80K boxster.
Here is a .jpg of the one I pulled out. Notice all the daylight. Basically nothing left of the mount. Jake again was correct (again). I'm glad I did this. With the new IMS bearing, water pump, MAF sensor and mount, my vehicle feels more responsive and smoother than ever. IMHO the bearing , clutch, and mount issues may have been robbing hp at my wheels. I also lost the start-up smoking issues I have been experiencing (not sure why). My mileage is also up since I placed the proper air in my tires.
Take a look at the mount at:

http://img182.imageshack.us/img182/6153/jbox53engmount.jpg

P.S. recommend using a deep 15mm socket when removing the mount from the chassis. Also nice to have a cool engine when doing job. I have the burns on my hand and forearm to testify.

Col!! I told you that you could do it!!! saved yourself a few more bucks too!
I plan on doing a DVD overview of changing the mount, with that it'll be much simpler and less intimidating for anyone to do.

Next you need to come take my class on lifter R&R and that Box will be even better!

The 30 wt oil you were running was probably the source of the start up smoke... You no longer have 30 wt in the engine.

Glad the car and IMSR are performing better :-)

Thanks Jake! Good info on the oil. Your mount instructions will definitely help the next poor soul that has to tackle that puppy.