Blown Engine 550 Spyder AE
 

The incident occured at 10,100 miles and 10 days before the warranty expires. I was in traffic, steady speed about 2200 rpm. It sounded like I ran over in bag of coke cans but there was nothing in the road. The motor died instantly. Heavy oil leak under the car. Dealer service rep says it's going to need a new motor, they're not certain what happened and it'll take a while. The dealer has loaned me a Cayman S and is taking good care of me so far...
I am concerned that I don't know how to confirm the replacement engine is the correct 264 HP version specific to the 550. If anyone knows how to tell if it's the right engine I'd really like to know.

be glad you are under warranty and they are giving you a nice loaner.

us "off warranty" guys cringe every time we see a thread like this....

bad luck to have it happen - but it's better it happened NOW than in 11 more days....

Pretty astounding this is still going on.

Please keep us posted.

:(

Pismo, just ask the dealer to show you paperwork showing the type of motor ordered and received for the car.

It does not benefit the dealer to put a different motor in your car. In fact, it would be more work they would not be paid for considering every motor has a computer setup and your ECU is not going to be swapped out.

Wow. You have GOT to be so thankful this happened while still under the warranty umbrella. Whew!

Not suprised at all.

It will continue to occur, engine failures are still happening.. Most of them never make it to the net.

I doubt you have to worry about getting theproper engine, but a trip to a chassis dyno would be a good way to quantify what you do get.

Be glad this happened under warranty, most of the people that call me don't get this lucky... Always remember that even the replacement engine that you get is not immune to future failures, those occur as well.

Just heard the new boxster will get the all-new motor that won't have the same issues as our motors have now. I bet they'll have different catastrophic problems though :ah:

Mr. Raby, you will be in business for a very long time, guaranteed!

Is the extra power the engine or other things like the 987 style intake?

Does anyone have a source to find the differences between the standard S motor and 550 AE? Sometimes mistakes are made and corners are cut. I'm a "Trust but verify..." kind of person.
I don't think I can say I could tell a 258 HP motor from a 264 by the seat of my pants in normal driving and I've found Dynos come up with substantial differences in what are supposed to be identical motors. At an MBCA dyno pull, 3 stock well maintained '91 190E 2.6s had a spread of over 15 HP on what are supposed to be 158 HP motors.
Based on Jake's remarks I am now looking towards getting an extended warranty, any suggestions? The car's original warranty expires Oct. 4th.

"Just heard the new boxster will get the all-new motor that won't have the same issues as our motors have now. I bet they'll have different catastrophic problems though."

Whats the word on the new Boxster engine, DFI or what?

Ed

:cheers:

Pismo, ask your service advisor at the Pcar dealership which aftermarket warranty gives them the least hassle and pays out the most consistently. In fact, call a half dozen Pcar dealerships' service department and ask.

Some will tell you they're great to have, others say put the $2000-3000 of cash you pay for one in the bank and save it and you may never spend that much on the car for the time you own it.

ed, rumor has it the next boxsterS/caymanS motor will have DFI and no intermediate shaft. However, I think the base models still have the old motor. Not totally sure on this, but I seem to remember reading it somewhere.

You got very lucky. It is too bad to hear that they still haven't fixed the IMS problems. You should try and negotiate an extended warranty at a discount because of this.

The 550's engine is basically the same engine as the Boxster S for 2004.
The HP difference comes from a larger airbox/air filter (from the 987), a more efficient exhaust system and a different ECU mapping.
When the dealer replaces your engine, they won't replace the airbox, the exhaust or the ECU, so you should have your original HP.
The car may feel a little more sluggish than before, and that can be explained because you are getting a new (tighter) engine that needs to be broken-in again.
Once the engine has a few thousand miles on it it will get smoother and faster.
Don't worry about the new engine.
Be happy that it's now covered by a full 2 year warranty with no mileage limit.
Happy Boxstering,
Pedro

Pismo--
 

Has your dealer identified what caused the engine failure ?

Do a proper engine brake-in with the new motor:

1) Keep RPM's <4,200
2) For about 2,200 miles
3) Don't lug engine
4) Don't run for extended periods in the same gear
5) Change the oil and filter at about the 1,000 mile mark (not required by Porsche, just prudent advice)

The new engines will also have their issues.. Any "new" engine developed in todays world with less than adequate practical application and high mileage usage and observation will take several generations to perfect... As the factory solves one issue they create 2-3 more.. The manufacturers are also always fighting the accounting department, no portion of the company has more power than accounting- not even Engineering.

The factory can't "fix" the IMS issues on the old engines without serious expenditures... The way they look at it, the **majority** of engines make it through warranty and thats all they care about- just the first owner and making it through warranty.

Our billet IMS would cost MILLIONS of dollars for Porsche to implement in large production runs, thats not the case with our small production runs of engines that are updated and have the issues remedied.

If the factory saves a Nickel on every part that saves them millions of dollars.... This is not the 1970s and no manufacturer is concerned with more than taking money and making it through the warranty. Your loss is their gain.

I have seen a couple dozen different modes of failure and now things are starting to occur that weren't a couple of years ago, or last year.. Now we are seeing rod bolts break right out of the blue on stock engines.. The worst part is the rod has to be thrown away because its non-rebuildable. This will continue as fatigue, age and wear take their toll.

My engines use the least possible Porsche parts.. Soon we'll be able to build an entire engine and only use Porsche seals, gaskets and chain tensioners...

As for warranty, don't put much stock in it... I have customers who have had 2-3 failures and the warranty didn't pay for all the parts and labor. Read the fine print!
The warranty doesn't keep the engine from failing, more than anything it gives a false sense of security that you won't have a problem- not true.

I have put my effort into eliminating the issues that create the failures that lead to warranty engagement. I have several people who came to us simply because they were tired of the red tape, fine print and BS associated with the "warranty".

Totally dependent on the engine and it's intended usage. My warranty is very specific, but not written in fine print and there are several responsibilities that the customer has during the warranty period.

Typically we rival the factory warranty on engines that are stock, and that are installed on premises by our team. Engines that are designed for performance are only covered by a warranty while under our care and control, during the lab testing. Risk comes with mechanical manipulation and higher performance and thats just part of playing the power game. Always has and always will be.

I am working on an "extended warranty" program for the stock and performance engines, but the one mandate is that we must install the engine and give it the seal of approval (as well as the sub-systems supporting the engine) for any engine to be eligible.

One good thing about my program is no break in period. All engines are dyno tested in my lab and ran for a minimum of 12 hours, so you install it and drive it as hard as you want immediately after ensuring the installation job is correctly completed.

Jack, I have an '01 S model that just turned 15,000 miles last weekend...Yes, she is my baby and as garage kept as possible.

I am the second Owner and purchased the car last Feb. with 13,000 on the odo. Car has complete mainatenance history attached and was adult owned / maintained to the hilt.

The original owner was from Sacremento, CA and the car lived out there for almost 6 years, prior to coming east.

Whan I purchased, I had Jim Ellis in Atlanta do the PPI and everything came back clean. In fact, they asked if the car had ever seen rain and I said the original Owner may have been caught a couple times in, but not any serious driving at all.

I am a little concerned about what i have been hearing with regard to the IMS failures. If it blows, it blows, but I would like to know what protective measures I can do now to prevent such a chaotic experience. Is there something you can do to the existing engine that will bulletproof it, or should i just wait for a possible explosion to occur...

Just don't have 20 - 25k laying around for a new conversion if this happened tomorrow, but have some cash available for preventive measures.

The warranty is obviously gone, and I don't think these aftermarket company's are really going to cover this kind of loss...as they know the game.

Thanks for any responses you have. Jon Clark.

Jwade,
The beauty of our program is that no longer is an engine conversion the only way to enhance reliability and performance.. The conversion engines also have their share of issues and can fail in their own ways... None of the M96 engines are totally bullet proof from the factory.

Lots of people are worried by what they read and they should be. NO CAR is immune to these issues, no matter the mileage! In fact, it seems that cars that are driven easy and taken care of will fail MORE than those that are well taken care of and driven harder! Very seldom does any engine fail at a DE or on the track, most happen in city driving.

I am working on an article and DVD now that will outline what a Boxster owner should know about troubleshooting, diagnosing and engaging with preventive maintenance to note IMS issues before they create failures. The truth is that sometimes these things go "pop" with no warning at all and not a single symptom... Kind of like a Brain Aneurism.

The only way to absolutely avoid the issues is to update the IMS when you have the time and money, along with the cylinders, oil system and the 13 other issues we have taken action to solve/ prevent.

You may be like me and may have gotten a really good engine that won't scatter even if you try... I have been trying to kill the test car for the past year with total abuse and neglect, but it runs better now than it did before... Thats even after driving it 2 miles at a time against the rev limiter and not doing any service to it at all, just observation.

Look for the article that Excellence did on our program and the M96 engine issues. It will be coming out in January 09 and details lots of the modes of failure and how they are being addressed.... Very informative.

Owning an M96 powered Porsche (as factory) is like playing Poker, every time you turn the key you are dealt a new hand.

Thanks for the response. I drive the car as it should be driven, not crazy, but do run it as I have never babied anything with a motor.

Usually, I keep it geared in the 3-4000 rpm range as I like the sound. Very rarely do I let gearing take me below 2500 in this car, but will run out the gearing on the backroads, but never over rev.

Hopefully it won't blow, but if it does, it does, and then I'll go into cardiac arrest knowing I basically just bought a new car for what it will cost to fix this one...

Still I absolutely love the entire boxster platform and have been a Porsche buff since I was a kid. I remember back in College when the Boxster prototype came out.

From then on, I wanted one and now as my family is growing up, I have a little more financial flexibility, as well as growing my professional career, I figured go for it and bought one.

Just couldn't ever afford one growing up and didn't exactly have parents just ready to fork over that kind of cash......hell, mine from the factory in '01 was nearly 70k after taxes paid in California...

Those things you recommended sound good and I have looked on your website. You guys really have done quite a bit of research here.

What do you think a modest pricetag be on some internal upgrades would be?

Thanks, Jon

The stipulation isn't awkward at all. Most of what we are building are performance engines that are not a simple "remove and replace". There are subsystems that must be up to the task and we must ensure that all aspects of the car are worthy of our engine.

I have been an engine supplier for the majority of my life, having sold my first engine to a paying customer at age 13. I know the reality that lies behind stamping my name on an engine, giving it a warranty and then putting the life of that engine into someone else's hands with no control over it's destiny.

As for trusting the purchaser: Well, I trust my neighbor also, but there is still a fence between my property and his.. I have learned that the sale of a engine, especially a performance engine is a critical thing, having sold thousands of engines all over the world (I have had an engine on every Continent for over a decade) I have learned that all things must be in order and removal of red tape and complexities is a must. This is mostly because I don't believe in fine print and do not use it, anything that needs to be said is done so up front and boldly.

I take the work that is done here very seriously and the lab work that is done for each engine prior to getting my personal stamp of approval is a lengthy process. We put EVERY engine through a rigorous, yet controlled dyno test for 12 hours before it is released to be installed into a vehicle. This testing includes rigors that you cannot parallel in the car and all is completed under the watchful eye of 28 sensors with feeds being downloaded by my data logging equipment. What this allows is a full understanding of exactly how the engine is functioning, what temperatures it is running and how it is performing. You can rest assured that IF there are any issues with any engine they will be noted and remedied and then re-tested prior to leaving our facility, whether the engine will be installed by us, or not. This also allows ZERO break in time for the engine, meaning we have done this for you and the engine can be driven at it's potential from the very beginning.

This is not something that is done by Porsche, or certainly by any other shop. Our ability to design, develop, test engines in the same facility where we assemble them, prove them and install them as well as test them again in the car on the chassis dyno is an edge that you won't find anywhere else.

In times past I have noted that the people that buy something because it has the best warranty overlook true value in design and practical application. I never put stock in a warranty- when I buy something and the clerk asks me if I want the extended service plan I politely tell them that I prefer to keep my money and take my risks as the red tape thats generally attached to the service plan render it virtually worthless should something actually occur. These issues are very clear when one looks into the situations that Porsche's warranty on engines and cars has created for many purchasers, sometimes requiring legal action to get something repaired under warranty- I am a developer and have no time for Court proceedings.

A performance engine and car is filled with risks, anyone that does not want to face these risks are much better keeping their vehicle bone stock. This statement applies to those who have a Chevy or a Porsche or a Ferrari... A single bad tank of fuel or a missed gear shift can cause issues that may lead to finger pointing and a contest in a Court room, neither of which I desire.

I have put together a well developed program for the M96 engine and offer to the public. This program couples individual assembly, lab testing, installation and then in- car testing of the engine and subsystems to ensure no problems exist, we'll then road-test the car for a couple hundred miles before it is picked up or shipped from our facility. I have worked to reduce the cost of shipping to allow more people to take advantage of this program.

My program isn't for everyone and thats evident. Rest assured that anyone who takes advantage of the program is getting way more than something that can be put in writing on a piece of paper.... Do a google search under my name and read the hundreds of references to my work from people all over the world and when you do this realize that I haven't given a performance air-cooled engine under warranty for the past 9 years but that hasn't stopped more than 5 purchasers from taking advantage of my intensity, dedication and development. In that 9 year period I have had three engine failures, each of them I took care of fairly even though there was nothing in writing that said I had to.

Time will prove to others what we already know about our program and that is the fact that it makes the Boxster and 996 the cars they should have been from the factory, regardless of what a piece of paper may state.

The autopsy revealed a failed intermediate shaft. Service Rep assures me I’m getting exactly the same engine installed Monday but it may not be finished until mid week. The Rep would not say what the warranty will be on the engine. He says the warranty won’t go beyond the original warranty. The original warranty expires Oct. 4th… this seems wrong. Anyone have this sort of experience?
In 10 minutes I'm out of warranty :eek:

An Initial product warranty and an Extended warranty
 

are two totally different things. I don't buy extended warranties either. But I do expect a warranty against product failure for a reasonable term after I buy a new product.

The last remanufactured engine I bought had to be replaced at ~1600 miles because it smoked worse than the one it replaced. It was replaced at no charge because the company that remanufactured the long block provided a written warranty. The warranty covered the engine swap labor charges. So I had assurance that I'd only pay parts and labor once and be good for a year.

I have no problem with the installation requirement, though your geograpic location is not favorable to the largest concentration of P-car owners.

(Will you do clutch replacements as part of the installation since that often makes sense to do while the engine is dropped?)

With no written and contractually enforceable warranty, the engine could fail 2 weeks after installation, after normal road driving, and the buyer would have no legal recourse.

Now if someone had been producing essentially the same engine for several years, had a track record of many on the road for many miles with testimonials from many people who had been "treated right" and a legally enforceable warranty of the same length, I'd feel differently about the value proposition between a Porsche crate engine and a same-priced improved alternative.

First off, the BS that Pismo is about to encounter is THE problem with a warranty. I hope someone he interfaces with has some sense and recognizes that he had a problem while the engine was under warranty. That's not the case in most instances as when the clock strikes midnight the prince turns into a frog immediately.

Secondly, I do own a Boxster and this is not an effort that's been done as a sideline from our aircooled efforts. I have expanded capabilities to support the M96 efforts including a new and totally separate facility to do the M96 development, assembly and testing. This side of my house will also be developing and building the M96 365 days a year, and this has already begun.

Many people have missed the point concerning the goals of our program as at the present our goals are to create the components to all ow local shops to do rebuilds and updates for stock engines. These shops will be trained how to use our tools and updated components here at our facility and as we release updates and revisions these dealers will receive them.

Our focus here until Porsche cancels the engine replacement program will be creating what Porsche won't and that's a performance M96 engine. The stock rebuilds are not our focus bit we are offering them. When I speak on the warranty subject most of my responses aimed toward performance applications.

Thus far those who have purchased engines have not been very concerned with warranty, be it a stock or performance engine. This very informative post has helped me to realize that I will need to incorporate some alternate warranty for the engines
and I will work on this ASAP. I am very confident in the program and the components and have issues with a written guarantee for a certain amount of time but there will be limitations and conditions and these will be very clear and the document will be posted on the website. Engines that we install and test will have different terms and conditions than those that are shipped. Watch my site for updates on this topic.

All in all we want to see the car and we want to install our engine when ever possible. The life of the engine being in someone elses hands is not something I fancy, especially in these first few years of the program when every eye is on what we create with great skepticism.

For clarification: Unlike the aircooled side of the house the M96 divisions doors will be open for car drop off or pick up or regular retail sales, and chassis dyno services
beginning 1/09. This was the entire reason that I am adding the new facility onto the property.

The driving force behind most businesses that are successful is to generate capital. What lured me onto the M96 scene 3 years ago was the problems with the engine and the fact that it was misunderstood and mysterious. These are the same things that lured me to the 914 engine as all I appreciate is a true challenge.

Bruce, re: our continuing discussion, is this evidence that driving our cars hard won't hurt them?

I agree with what Paul says. Driving it like a 90 yr old woman isn't saving your engine...and besides what fun is that anyways.

The next M96 Excellence article will cover this subject of hard driving and engine failures Vs easy driving and those same failures.

My take on all this is that there are inherent design issues which will cause your engine to 'grenade' regardless of how you drive (or maintain) it, in addition to issues which cause your engine to 'genade' if your drive it 'hard', there are those which will cause it to 'grenade' if you drive it soft.

That's not an endorsement to drive it 'hard', though it may not matter in the long run if you drive Hard or Soft.

It seems like not 'genading' your engine is a roll of the preverbial dice insomuch as the 'Morrocan' assemblymen were asleep at the switch ... or not.

The bottom line being that the 'myth' of Porsche 'reliability' is just that... myth!

My take is that if you own an M96 motor, it's much more a matter of 'when' rather than 'if''.

Very good observation and opinions..
But the trends point toward many more failures from cars driven easy or by Women than any others despie mileage on the engine.

We have logged every mode of failure with pics from every engine we have torn down and got reports from the drivers to create the stats and we'll continue to do this to create a very detailed understanding of what happens, when and how.

Track failures are few and far between.

As I've stated before (too many times, probably), I've been flooring and shifting Porsches near redline since 1974 and have yet to experience an engine failure.

I'm either very lucky or Porsches are not hurt by driving them at full throttle and high revs.

Regardless, I've been having fun for decades.

Here's a scan of my 2001 986 that I bought new. It currently has more than 74,000 miles and uses no oil at all between 10,000 to 15,000 mile oil changes (once a year).

Notice the 16,251 revs in range 1.


http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d6...ric2001986.jpg