New owner, age old question :-) - 986 Forum - The Community for Porsche Boxster & Cayman Owners

UTRacerX9 · 03-14-2008, 03:18 PM

Hi guys,

I'm brand new to the board, and I just purchased a 2000 Boxster S. I've had plenty of sportscars in my life, and well, I like to tinker with them and make them faster.

After reviewing some of the aftermarket parts available for the car, it looks like there really isn't much out there besides an engine swap, turbo or supercharging, that nets some real horsepower.

So I did some research, and my car has 250hp from it's 3.2l engine.... Question is, how is the 2005 putting out 280 with the same size engine? What are the differences between the 2000 and 2005 engine? Another 30 horsepower would be a sizable gain and it obviously doesn't involve forced induction or a larger engine.

Can anyone help?

Thanks!

Todd

edevlin · 03-14-2008, 04:18 PM

Hi, welcome to the forum, 2000 was a very good year for Boxsters (notice mine is a 2000). If you have a chance, take a test drive in a 2005 boxster S and see how it feels compared to your car. The newer car will be a little heavier, but you will still get a sense of the difference in power. You are right in that it is difficult to easily and cheaply get more power out of these engines with simple intake, exhaust and ECU mods. How do you find the drive and road handleing compared to some of the other cars you have owned?

Ed

Lil bastard · 03-14-2008, 04:49 PM

Better DME software - Motronic 7.8 vs Motronic 7.2 Larger file sizes 512k vs 16k allows more maps and more parameters. Variocam Plus ('05 or '06). These are mostly why.

UTRacerX9 · 03-14-2008, 07:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by edevlin

Hi, welcome to the forum, 2000 was a very good year for Boxsters (notice mine is a 2000). If you have a chance, take a test drive in a 2005 boxster S and see how it feels compared to your car. The newer car will be a little heavier, but you will still get a sense of the difference in power. You are right in that it is difficult to easily and cheaply get more power out of these engines with simple intake, exhaust and ECU mods. How do you find the drive and road handleing compared to some of the other cars you have owned?

Ed

Hi Ed, and thanks. I absolutely love the handling. It is so light and nimble. My main sportscar is a Stealth twin turbo, modified to about 500hp or so. While it will go fast, it's also very heavy, probably about 3500lbs even after I've replaced nearly everything with lightweight stuff.

I've also had a BMW M3 and a 528i, both are great handling cars, but with more luxury than the S. Consequently, they don't feel as sporty. I've also had an Eclipse Spyder GST, and while it was probably nearly as fast as the S, it doesn't handle anywhere close as good.

UTRacerX9 · 03-14-2008, 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lil bastard

Better DME software - Motronic 7.8 vs Motronic 7.2 Larger file sizes 512k vs 16k allows more maps and more parameters. Variocam Plus ('05 or '06). These are mostly why.

Is it possible to update the software in a 2000? Reflash the memory to 7.8 standard? I know some ECU's can be reprogrammed, but have no idea if that is an option on the Boxster.

If that is really the only difference, then shouldn't an ECU upgrade get me to 280hp or at least very close?

Thanks for your help!

blue2000s · 03-15-2008, 07:24 AM

I don't have any concrete evidence, but I'd guess that they've improved breathing over the years with port, head, valve and valve timing changes. Continuous variable valve lift and timing was introduced in 2003 which certainly aided in power output.

Notice that power went up by 12% but torque only went up by 4%, meaning the torque curve either moved higher up in the RPM range or it widened, meaning better breathing either higher up or across a wider RPM range. This, to me, points to the improvements in valve timing.

edevlin · 03-15-2008, 10:25 AM

"Is it possible to update the software in a 2000? Reflash the memory to 7.8 standard? I know some ECU's can be reprogrammed, but have no idea if that is an option on the Boxster. If that is really the only difference, then shouldn't an ECU upgrade get me to 280hp or at least very close?"

I put in aftermarket intake and exhaust systems and had the ECU reprogrammed for a 2000 base boxster with higher flow intake and exhaust. The dyno showed that I only got a little over 25 hp from the mods, but it now also has a nice wide, flat torque curve.

Ed

hjkim550 · 03-15-2008, 11:16 PM

Ed,

25 Hp. Hmmm... How much this this bump cost you? I was just curious. I would be interested to know exactly what modifications you have made with which products and how much each cost roughly. You probably did not get each mod dyno'd and have no idea what each component contributes in the overall 25 Hp gain.

Lastly, what does your car sound like? I know Randall initially liked his Deluboz header and exhaust but I seemed to recall a post where he was interested in changing the exhaust due to resonance issues. Any issues with resonance or droning that you dislike?

I think other members would be interested in finding out how much it cost to do the mods in total.

Thanks,

Hyung

edevlin · 03-16-2008, 05:21 AM

"25 Hp. Hmmm... How much this this bump cost you? I was just curious. I would be interested to know exactly what modifications you have made with which products and how much each cost roughly. You probably did not get each mod dyno'd and have no idea what each component contributes in the overall 25 Hp gain."

Cost, ouch, that is a sore subject. When I first joined the forum when I got the car, other members warned me about the slippery slope of getting into modifications. The mods have been very expensive, but it has been a lot of fun doing them and dialing in the car.

I think I have done 4-5 dyno runs with the car, but it has not been in an organized sequence of parts added. The first runs were with just the intake and chip, the later runs were with different exhaust combinations (I went through several).

As best I can tell the chip and intake added about 20 hp, the complete exhaust system another 5 hp or so (I am putting out a little over 200 hp to the wheels). The Autothority chip is not optimized for max hp, but a high, flat torque curve and throttle response in addition to hp. The car is very responsive now with that chip and very different from the stock ECU tune.

Also, in hindsight, the TTP parts, though high quality, appear to be some of the most expensive you could use. I think the numbers for HP mods are something like this:

TTP carbon fiber intake: 800.00

TTP headers 1300.00

100-cell cats 1200.00

Custom Autothority ECU mod 1000.00

Dansk Sport muffler 800.00

"Lastly, what does your car sound like? I know Randall initially liked his Deluboz header and exhaust but I seemed to recall a post where he was interested in changing the exhaust due to resonance issues. Any issues with resonance or droning that you dislike?"

Its kinda hard to describe the sound. I like the low rumble at low rpm's and the scream at high rpms with the exhaust on the car now. Also, as most members know, adding an aftermarket intake adds some nice sound to the car. The car sounds quite civilized with normal driving, not like with the gemballa and other mufflers I tried.

What I dont like about the exhaust is a sorta metallic sound (not loose cats or baffles, just free flow and engine sounds). You can hear the metallic sound I am talking about if you find the link to the Dansk website, one of their free-flowing exhaust combinations has that sound. As best as I can tell, the intake and headers made the most difference in the character of the sound, as the muffler is similar to stock, except for a higher flow rate.

Ed

rule1 · 03-16-2008, 12:48 PM

I have a 2000 also and have Maxspeed Motorsports headers and muffler plus EVO intake. Thats it, no ecu reprogramming and I put 209HP and 172TQ to the wheels on Imagine Auto's dyno. The HP is 246 to the crank. My car only has 23,000 miles. If you look under my posts you can find my dyno results.

rule1 · 03-16-2008, 12:53 PM

A stock 2000 2.7 should put around 180 to 185 hp on a mustang dyno so I gained 25-30 hp with those 3 upgrades that cost around $1600.00

edevlin · 03-16-2008, 01:57 PM

"A stock 2000 2.7 should put around 180 to 185 hp on a mustang dyno so I gained 25-30 hp with those 3 upgrades that cost around $1600.00"

I am glad that you had that much of a performance bump with just intake and exhaust mods, especially for the money, thats great. I have read about others, expecially with 3.2L cars, that have had good results increasing hp with exhaust mods alone.

I am not sure what its worth, because many of the companies that sell mods make unrealistic claims about increased HP with their products. But at the TTP website they say you should expect about a 25 hp bump when you do their exhaust, intake and chip for a 2.7L engine. So my numbers seem pretty much inline with what they are reporting. I think the last run I did on a Dynojet dyno was 204 hp to the wheels.

Because I did not do the exhaust system until after I did the chip and intake, all I can say is that the exhaust added another 5hp or so, I dont know how much it would have added before adding the intake and chip. The shop that did the install also said that in most cases with a 2.7L engine, you could expect a 3-5 hp bump with headers and cat-back exhaust.

Ed

Adam · 03-16-2008, 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UTRacerX9

Hi guys,

So I did some research, and my car has 250hp from it's 3.2l engine.... Question is, how is the 2005 putting out 280 with the same size engine? What are the differences between the 2000 and 2005 engine? Another 30 horsepower would be a sizable gain and it obviously doesn't involve forced induction or a larger engine.

Can anyone help?

Thanks!

Todd

On top of the better computer software and variocam plus, I think 05+ have better exhaust manifolds with equal length runners. The manifolds on the 986 look like they could be a lot better.

UTRacerX9 · 03-16-2008, 03:20 PM

Thanks for the responses guys! I'll start with the basics, intake, headers, exhaust, and see what that gets me, if I'm not satisfied... well, I've got some spare turbos lying around...

Gary in BR · 03-16-2008, 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UTRacerX9

Thanks for the responses guys! I'll start with the basics, intake, headers, exhaust, and see what that gets me, if I'm not satisfied... well, I've got some spare turbos lying around...

Spare turbos....hmmm....read some of our interesting ideas about intercoolers, meth injection, and forced induction on the board. We have had some great threads.

Welcome to the slope. Watch out its slippering.

UTRacerX9 · 03-18-2008, 01:55 PM

I've got two low mileage TD04 MHI 9B turbos from my Stealth Twin turbo. They would each be good for 11 psi to redline, and I'd really only look to run wastegate pressure of about 5-6 psi. As for intercooling... I'll have to research what is available and what will fit. I have not taken anything apart yet and haven't even seen the engine itself yet.

From what I've gathered so far though, most Porsche owners don't do modifications to their cars themselves in fear of screwing something up, which is understandable due to the cost of repairs to fix a mistake. However maybe I can help change that a bit...

Has anyone on here rebuilt their engine themselves? Or even taken out the engine/transaxle?

edevlin · 03-18-2008, 02:40 PM

"I'm brand new to the board, and I just purchased a 2000 Boxster S. I've had plenty of sportscars in my life, and well, I like to tinker with them and make them faster."

I thought I would add my 2 cents about tinkering with our cars. The favorite mod I have done to the car by far, was the last one I did and had nothing to do with the engine and HP. My stock suspension was getting a little tired at about 50K, so I lowered the car and added Bilstein coilovers.... Redoing the suspension made it a whole new car. The ride is a little stiff with the Bilsteins, but I put 1700 miles on the car last week, no problem, also no more body roll on hard cornering, and lots of control, its great.

Ed

rule1 · 03-18-2008, 04:14 PM

Where did you get them from?

edevlin · 03-18-2008, 05:15 PM

"Where did you get them from?"

A local shop in Richmond that does much of my work got the coilovers and did the install, very pleased with their work. BTW, glad to see another 2.7L 2000 boxster that is getting the mod "treatment", its great fun.

Ed

:dance:

rule1 · 03-18-2008, 06:10 PM

Glad you like the coilovers!!!!