Boxster intercooler???....

[pinzgo]

Hi Pk, I removed everything to clean trunk. That's why clamps are not on pictures. Methanol is AEM. It comes with progressive control based on boost pressure. Is is set from 2 to 7 psi. I can set from 0 to almost anything over. I will have to road test now.
Bests
Jacques

Originally Posted by pk2

So, I found a source for toluene, $16 per gallon. Any body have an equation or chart showing ratios of toulen to 91 gas to figure a target oct. number?

Regards, P

[boostiality]

Originally Posted by pk2

So, I found a source for toluene, $16 per gallon. Any body have an equation or chart showing ratios of toulen to 91 gas to figure a target oct. number?

Regards, P

P

It's probably similar to the 91 to 100 octane chart. All they do is average out the number ratio. Unfortunately xylene and toluene have gone way up, they used to be 35-40 for a 5 gallon drum, but not anymore. The mixture I made is with 4 gallons of 100 and 1 gallon of xylene. Cost for me is $43.00 and the mixture adds up to 103.4xx octane. VP racing MS 109 is 103 octane but they charge $64.00 for a 5 gallon drum. If you look at the main ingredients you'll see ......... you guessed it Xylene


I'd love to use leaded gas like C16 but cats and o2 sensors are way too expensive on these cars.

[pk2]

Originally Posted by boostiality

P

It's probably similar to the 91 to 100 octane chart. All they do is average out the number ratio. ...The mixture I made is with 4 gallons of 100 and 1 gallon of xylene. Cost for me is $43.00 ... MS 109 is 103 octane but they charge $64.00 for a 5 gallon drum. If you look at the main ingredients you'll see ......... you guessed it Xylene


I'd love to use leaded gas like C16 but cats and o2 sensors are way too expensive on these cars.

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Ya it is just a ratio thing the equation is just ratio based on know outcomes of mixes ...I'll figure it out. I pay $8+ a gallon for 100. to get the minimum 93...If Toluene is double the price and at least double the strength, it's a bit more convenient. A little mental Calisthenics make me believe it might be a push, does sound though like you saved a few bucks

I read a couple really in depth articles on these additives, wish I could dig up the links. Theres lots of nuance. Toluene seems the pretty good because theres a lot in regular fuel anyways and, for what it's worth, the EU uses more than we do. So I guess it's pretty safe for their engines

Regards, PK

Found one http://www.offroaders.com/tech/octane.htm

[boostiality]

PK

Have you heard of AEM's new FIC? I think this might be the answer on how to fine tune our motors. FIC: Fuel and Ignition Control. Along with AEM's back up, this should be a great tool for our cars. It was made specifically for new OBD II cars like ours, and so far I've read it works on MAF honda's and toyota's that have our semi-wideband o2 sensors. Cheaply priced too, I've found a few new ones for $350.

Joe

[Gary in BR]

I know most cars that run race fuel and street fuel use 2 adjustable program maps, if a car was programed to run 93 but 103 was ran would there be a noticeable power difference?

[JP-s-in st. louis]

Gary

Yep and kill an already week O2 sensor. Ask me how I know.

[Gary in BR]

Originally Posted by JP-s-in st. louis

Gary

Yep and kill an already week O2 sensor. Ask me how I know.

So I can assume that 103 does make more power but may hurt o2 sensors?

I will just put some cutouts in before my o2s run some 103 and see what happens??

I dont like hurting things so I will just leave the high octane stuff to the guys that can fix their own engines.

[boostiality]

Originally Posted by Gary in BR

So I can assume that 103 does make more power but may hurt o2 sensors?

I will just put some cutouts in before my o2s run some 103 and see what happens??

I dont like hurting things so I will just leave the high octane stuff to the guys that can fix their own engines.

Hi Gary

103 wont hurt your o2 sensors, unless it's LEADED 103 which wouldn't make any sense for the manufactuers to make anyway. In fact, you can go to VPracing.com and look for their streetblaze 100 formula which is marketed as very friendly to OBD II based components.

So far general consensus from 6speed from the 996TT/GT2 section has been VP racing MS 109 to be the pill of choice when it comes to unleaded race gas. Those guys have provided thousands of miles logged on MS109 (which is their most potent unleaded race gas) with no ill-effects to their o2 sensors. Keep in mind that they really don't want to hurt their o2 sensors since they use a highly sensitive and very costly o2 sensors (relative to ours, theirs cost 500+ since it's basically a wideband).

HOWEVER, even they along with all the other turbo shops will concede that if you want the most fun out of your turbo set up would have to be the use of leaded race gas like VP C16 (Leaded 117 octane) or VP Import (Leaded 120+) . These fuel's WILL eventually kill your o2 sensor and plug your cats


Oh yea in order to take full advantage of running higher octane gas, a tune would be needed. Not that it would blow up the motor, it's actually just to raise certain peremeters such as higher boost or more aggressive ignition timing or both which you can do safely at higher levels because race gas burns slower.

The really cool thing about newer and newer DME's is that they've gotten very good at not killing themselves from knock or being lean. The motor doesn't have the capability of knowing what octane your putting into it. What it does know is that your getting X amount of airflow, so it puts X amount of fuel at X time while monitoring both the knock sensor, o2 sensor and MAF sensor.

All it can really see is that your putting this much air into it so it puts in this much fuel. If your putting in something with lower octane then what it's supposed to be used, it'll see this because regardless your engine will knock. When it knocks it'll switch over to a less aggressive timing map and maybe throw in more fuel till knock is lowered to an acceptable point.

Joe

[pk2]

Originally Posted by boostiality

PK

Have you heard of AEM's new FIC? I think this might be the answer on how to fine tune our motors. FIC: Fuel and Ignition Control. Along with AEM's back up, this should be a great tool for our cars. It was made specifically for new OBD II cars like ours, and so far I've read it works on MAF honda's and toyota's that have our semi-wideband o2 sensors. Cheaply priced too, I've found a few new ones for $350.

Joe

Hello Joe,

I'd heard of them but wasn't aware of the Fic product. Has nice documentation and thats sort of rare. That and If it has a good software, is half the game or more. It's really helpful if theres documentation specific for your car. It takes awhile for the new kids on the block to build up a data base for the zillions of cars.

Compared to my SMT6, or a SMT7 or a Unichip or a Split Second or dozens of others, being new, It probably has more mapping cells and a more robust processor. But, I'm not really sure you need that much nuance more cells or a speedier processor affords. The calculations these thing have to process is pretty rudimentary and output speeds are pretty slow 300 or 400 hz is about max. Nothing compare to an ipod.

Most of these things, including above listed, do all the same; timing and injector control with 3d maps... and then some and some are pre-setup for a Box baseline to some degree.

But worth looking into if your shopping for a “new” box, the price is right.

Regards, Peter

[pk2]

Originally Posted by boostiality

Hi Gary

103 wont hurt your o2 sensors, unless it's LEADED 103 which ...aggressive timing map and maybe throw in more fuel till knock is lowered to an acceptable point.

Joe

Is there an acceptable knock?? I thought that was the curse of forced injection on these things. Plenty of people thought I was nuts putting this thing on, But I got the impression the bad rap was from people romping around on 91 oct. or having it over-boosted with no compensation.

Regards, PK

[boostiality]

Originally Posted by pk2

Is there an acceptable knock?? I thought that was the curse of forced injection on these things. Plenty of people thought I was nuts putting this thing on, But I got the impression the bad rap was from people romping around on 91 oct. or having it over-boosted with no compensation.

Regards, PK

Whats up PK

With all DMEs there's got to be a range of which is acceptable due background noise thats inherently going to be picked up and registered as such. However just by looking at tuners responses from 6speed, Porsche's own knock code isn't touched even by the likes of GIAC or Softronic because it's just that good. All they really do is just tune the ignition and fuel injection maps anyway.

It's just like you said, the folks that bad mouth this or say that don't have any experience or just don't do the proper homework about these kinds of setups. Running without an EGT, wideband, etc etc and just relying on the tuner is just plain crazy for the simple fact that things can happen. Things like the gas station having bad or watered down gasoline.

Best,
Joe

[pk2]

Originally Posted by boostiality

Whats up PK

With all DMEs there's got to be a range of which is acceptable due background noise thats inherently going to be picked up and registered as such. ..
Best,
Joe

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Hey Joe,

Come to think of it I guess I have read about the little transient “noise” inherent in knox & other sensitive sensor circuitry. Didn't put it together with the expression “acceptable knock”. I wonder how you measure it (Ive heard of little microphone in the eng. Compartment...). Guess the EGT gage should say it all though.

EGT sensors are all hooked up. Kinda remarkable how much heat the super creates.

Funny I never thought to pick the brains of the big GT boys on 6Speedoline, felt like I might as well be coming around in a soap-box derby car. Every time I hear of, or am thinking of, something I want do, a Google search always winds me up at some rice burner forum.

Must say I've learned one 'elluva lot at those forums. Those guy are doing it all every day and to the max. Aside from this little cadre here, It's pretty hard to find anyone doing much ongoing stuff with the Boxster.

I'm still waiting for my little custom h20/meth widget controller from Aquamist (its real the...guy sent me a pick). RMA'd my O2 controller and it turns out there was nothing wrong with it at there end so it's coming back, not sure where I'm off on this end. Thought I gave it all the once over twice.


Regards, PK

[Gary in BR]

Originally Posted by pk2

EGT sensors are all hooked up. Kinda remarkable how much heat the super creates.



Must say I've learned one 'elluva lot at those forums. Those guy are doing it all every day and to the max. Aside from this little cadre here, It's pretty hard to find anyone doing much ongoing stuff with the Boxster.


Regards, PK

Good evening everyone,

You mention that the sc creates alot of heat. Did you get EGT readings prior to installing the sc? If so what was the baseline compared to now?

A few more gauges will be one of my summer projects, dont worry guys I have something pretty sharp up my sleeve.

With the dropping in price of the Boxster and the racing series getting off to a good start I think more and more shops will make Boxster specific parts for the engine and suspension.

There is allot of knowledge to be learned from the "ricer" guys. I find myself reading the super streets type of magazines to see what they are doing. I agree that they know what they are doing and they push those cars to the edge.

To update you guys on my car, I added the lower suspension mount a few weekends ago, it makes a difference!! I think the difference may be larger in my car with out the aluminum plate than what most guys see. The cars with the plate do see a large difference, so I am not sure what the plate does. But because of my intercooler I mounted it below the mounts.

In the picture the bolts where not tightened but i promise they where before the test drive.

And to everyone:
More (horse) power to you!!

Gary

[boostiality]

Good thing I plan on keeping this car for awhile otherwise I'd cringe on how much I'm probably going to spend on it once power gets done and suspension needs to be addressed :ah:

All in good fun though. In time these cars will catch on as certain stigma's have to be broken. It took nearly a decade and a half to get the E30 and E36 BMW guys to get up to where they are now in terms of power mods for decent cost and our platform will face a teething phase as the previous generation of owners will get replaced by ones who are more daring when it comes to modifying their cars. When it comes down to it, the answers have already been laid out by the import/domestic crowd who have been dealing with (engine wise) on how to get the best out of a high compression low boost situations.

PK:
Thats what a knock sensor pretty much is, an electronic microphone. The hard part is to program the DME to recognize whats knock, whats not, and whats acceptable and whats ideal. That meth injection is going to rock though

Gary:
Thats going to be on my next thing to get list. That and some nice R-Comps

[pk2]

Originally Posted by Gary in BR

Good evening everyone,

You mention that the sc creates alot of heat. Did you get EGT readings prior to installing the sc? If so what was the baseline compared to now?

A few more gauges ...I have something pretty sharp up my sleeve.

...The cars with the plate do see a large difference, so I am not sure what the plate does. But because of my intercooler I mounted it below the mounts...

Gary

Hey Gary
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I unfortunately had the super in long before the EGT jazz was installed. The only benchmark I have is an article I stumbled on, regarding a Land Rover, saying 700c was nice, 780c was pushing it.

Assuming my gage is reasonably accurate, I'm in that ball park under pretty full load down the freeway. I've never heard a ping or knock under heavy load (not sure I would though)...might go for a romp with the motor lid off and the top up, pretty sure I'd hear anything ugly.

So, I figure I'll probably be using my current temps as a bench mark.


The suspension bars got to make a huge diff. on your car without the aluminum plate. Trivia; long before Pedro started selling those things a guy name Ernie (I guess) created the DYI “Ernie bar”. There was a thread about it somewhere around here.

I just got my little custom PWM valve controller from my man at Aquamist. Got to pickup a little PWM valve and I'm going start putting it all together. Also, I'd like to find a digital data logger so I can figure out what my 7th injector is doing and when to program a preliminary map for my new AIC.

More guages,,go man go...

Regards, PK

[pk2]

Originally Posted by boostiality

... In time..platform will face a teething phase as the previous generation of owners will get...how to get the best out of a high compression low boost situations.

PK:
Thats what a knock sensor pretty much is, an electronic microphone. The hard part is to program the DME to recognize whats knock, whats not, and whats acceptable and whats ideal. That meth injection is going to rock though

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I just got my little custom h20/met valve controller from across the pond. Pretty cool how it works. I'll be able to meter out the cocktail and into the intake with the precision of a fuel injector. Probably far more accurately then motor will ever care.

So ya, maybe I won't ever be challenging the Knock sensors. But a microphone eh, no sh_t. I suppose though if you could capture the DME processed & calulated knock signal, you have sound a buzzer or somthing. On the wireing diagram for the DME, I think it shows an unused pin labeled "knox"

Your right that the go fast technology is pretty established. I think the Japanese cars have a leg up though in that they don't have very high compression. I think those guys running a 25psi boost are doing it on a stock block. If we really wanted to, we'd tear our motors down and get some custom lower compression pistons & rings...they can be had... 'bout $100 each



Regards, PK

[Gary in BR]

Hey guys!

any updates??

How are all of the upgrades coming along?

Not a whole lot new on my car....but the summer is getting closer.

Stay tuned.

[pinzgo]

Hi Gary, Everything is set and car is on the road. No dyno yet but car spins easily on second gear with 275 35 18 tires. Methanol keeps engine run smooth under boost.
I will be back with up to date performances pretty soon
Jacques

[pk2]

Hello Guys,

I tried my first run with a toulen/91 oct blend. Did it with a half gallon toulene with 8 gals. 91. Bout the same price ratio I spend for my race fuel mix.

Can't say I noticed any dramatic change and have no idea what oct. I wound up with but I pushed it pretty hard and the egt's were about the same, no detonation.

Still got to rig up a pressure relief for my H2o/meth injection set up and I'd love to figure out a safety shut down system that works with my super. ...Ideas?

Regards, PK

I've been hereing more and more about AEM. Be interested to see how it goes.

[pk2]

Originally Posted by pinzgo

Hi Gary, Everything is set and car is on the road. No dyno yet but car spins easily on second gear with 275 35 18 tires. Methanol keeps engine run smooth under boost.
I will be back with up to date performances pretty soon
Jacques

Jaques, How are you metering your meth?

Regards, PK